.38 Special

Years ago, I used to be a .357 magnum fiend.

Now, I see that there are several high performance .38 special +P loads that do pretty much the same thing, with much less recoil and noise/flash. You can call me whatever you want, but at the end of the day... make mine a .38

ABTOMAT said:

I see it that 9mm does the same thing, but in a pistol that's slimmer and carries more rounds. And if you're going to use a revolver might as well go .357.

I carry a .38 snub but I can see how the market thinks.

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I would rather use .357 out of a longer barrel (4 to 6 inches) and .38 specials work great in both long and short barrels.

I have read the laws of diminishing returns (most of the powder is ignited outside the barrel) become very noticable when .357s are pushed out of shorter barrels.

I totally agree about the 9mm but black plastic goobly globs look so utilitarian and are not as much fun as a shiny chrome or mirrored stainless revolver or even a rich deep blued steel one.

The .327 Federal Magnum made it obsolete

What? .38 Special Has Lost Respect? Not With Me!

The .38 Special is also "Special" to me.

The .38 Special, .357 Magnum, 9mm, .45 ACP, I've owned them all (and others), but these are my favorites. I believe the .357 Magnum may be overrated. Not a lot better than .38 Special, for most, in most situations.

Back before the turn of the century, you could get two .38 Specials for the price of one .357 Magnum. Duh, I got the two .38's! I presently own several .38 Specials, but nary a .357. All are S&W or Colt, mainly the former.

Long live .38 Special!

C0untZer0 said:

The .327 Federal Magnum made it obsolete

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Good, but not an obsolete maker. How many .327's do you see as opposed to .38 Special's ?

The .327 Federal doesn't do anything the .32-20 can't do. As far as the .38 Special, the old .38-44HV was pretty wicked. The "demise" of the .38 Special was due to weapon capacity more than performance.

158gr RNL 'Widow Maker' loads, that's how.

Deaf

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Yep the round nose lead sure is a widow maker. My uncle was a Ft Worth cop and shot one man while on duty. He used a model 15 with the RNL issue loads. He killed the bad guy with one shot. The BG crumpled right in his tracks. That made the BGs wife a widow for sure and for certain.

Round balls and round nosed bullets have been killing people since guns were invented. I would not feel under gunned if all I all I had were round nosed bullets. But if available I would use something else. And I am not convinced hollow points are all that much more effective than a good flat point bullet.

And long live the 38 special. My favorite handgun round.

@DWfan

The .32-20 can't fire .32 H&R or .32 S&W last I checked.

Advantage .327 magnum.

Nom de Forum said:

I did not take too long after publishing their book for most people to label Marshall & Sanow at best marginally credible. It was in Guns & Ammo that Jeff Cooper reached his largest audience for .45ACP hyping by, among other things, engaging in .38 Special bashing.

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I really dislike the effect Cooper had on shooting culture and contributing to dumb stopping power lore.

For every good idea he had there were 4 bad ones.

Ammo has come a long way also for the .380 and 9mm, and the guns have been getting smaller, easier to carry and they have a higher capacity, usually.

But, I'm wondering about .380+P versus .38+P, assuming the .380 in a small auto and the .38 in small revolver, 2-3" barrel. I've always been a revolver guy, but recognize the auto is thinner. I've had people tell me .380+P is more potent than the .38+P. Maybe in a longer barrel, but I just don't see it. So which is really more potent?

380 vs 38 spl

I can easily push a 172 grain SWC out of a J frame Smith at over 600 fps. It will reach vitals.
The old British 200 grain load was a proven stopper.
380 will work, but i'm not as happy with it.

Yup there certainly is nothing wrong with the .38 SPL. It's equally at home in J frames as well as 4" revolvers. Though I know the J frames are really whats keeping it going these day I prefer the S&W K .38's. The K .38's offer much more versatility than most suppose, and are intrinsically accurate.One can go from nice target WC ammo all the way up to some pretty stout SD, and outdoor loads. With all of the new technology powders and projectiles that are coming out the .38 SPL just keeps getting better with age.

Here is a great thread on the .38 SPL with lots of useful data.
http://smith-wessonforum.com/ammo/144598-some-38-special-chronograph-tests.html

Growing up in the 60's and 70's I asked myself the very same question for the very same reasons.
A few glocks and kimbers etc. later I only have to ask myself one question. Has my 60 year old j frame .38spl ever had a failure to feed, fire, eject or go into battery? Not many other things in life can be as dependable.

I shoot and reload a lot of .38 spl. It's one of my favorite firearms to take to the range. I do try to shoot it at 150 yds at a steel IPSIG target. Get a few hits. At closer range the faling plates go down almost on every shot.

I also love the .38spl. I tend to use my 4" model 15 loaded up with wadcutters as a first pistol to try rather than 22 when I bring others to the range.

Let them run a few rounds of that, and they seem to adapt to the other stuff right quick.

That - and when you're as cheap as me, with a buddy that recycles lead for me in exchange for some auto and small engine maintenance - it's cheaper than 22 these days by a long shot.

That being said, I have never actually worked up a 38spl load over 4.2 grains of unique. Never made a full power load. I must have 2k of each with 148's over 2.8 of BE, and 125's over 3 gr of clays. have a couple thousand 158 wadcutters on the shelf, just never got around to loading them yet. Usually they end up in the 357 cases over some H110.

.38 Revolver, just darn useful.

By power level, I can use a wider variety of rounds in my .38 Spl or .357 Mag revolvers than I can use in my .45 ACP, .40 S&W and 7.62x25mm autoloading pistols.

.38 Special is also very forgiving to the average reloader. If you can't learn to reload good .38 Special rounds, you'll never learn to reload the less forgiving rounds.

Plus it was originally a Black Powder cartridge, so I have been able to shoot mine in the local black powder cartridge matches with BP reloads.

Coffee & Cream
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Dinner & Movie
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Hornady Critical Defense & J Frame

blindhari

I love shooting the .38 special. So do most of the people I take to the range.

An Airweight rides in my pocket a great deal of the time.

I do miss the days when I could buy wadcutter reloads for $5/bag, though...

The only place the .38spl is obsolete is on the internet.
I've been carrying it for a long time, and I see no reason to change.

We still carry it at work (IL. Dept. of Corrections) for most routine duty--S&W 64. Every so often the talk of switching to the Glock .40 comes up but then goes down again. For the job we are asking of it, it is well suited. Few pistols will take abuse like a .38 revolver. I also carry it off duty these days and as a first line for HD alongside a Mos. 500. My wife and kids are comfortable with the .38, too. If you need more rounds, by all means a Glock, Springer XD or similar works well, too. The only real drawback is capacity.

.38 Special Dead ?

I have six .38 Specials, two 2", a 3", two 4", and a 5" (all of them S&W except for the one Colt Police Positive 4"), and looking for a 6".

Also, I have five 9mm, 2 or 3 of which I'm considering trading or selling.
I plan to keep ALL of my .38 Specials.

Do you reckon I have a thing about .38 Specials ?

38spl is weak? Guess I missed the memo. I do like more power but very often more power either means less manageable or bigger gun. Heck I'm satisfied with 6 32swl handloads in a 3" j frame.

The 38 Special is a great round. When I practice with a handgun, I usually start off with a 38 Special due to the low recoil and superb accuracy.

But, if you are as old, or older than I, you remember when the 38 Special was the issue round for the Police. When Cops carried the 38 Special that gave a legitimacy to the round and the revolvers that Cops carried. Sometime in the 80's, Cops started carrying autopistols, and of course, the 9mm's had huge magazine capacities, which made six round revolvers appear archaic.

There was a time when I picked up lots of 38 Special at the range, that time was decades ago. Now, I am tripping over 9mm brass and if I find a 38 Special case, it is a wonderful but rare day.

I wonder where the 38 Special would be if snubbies did not exist. I am of the opinion that the 38 Special gives the best combination of power, portability, and control of any snubbie.

Only recently have I started Bullseye Pistol competition, I would have liked to have seen Master class shooters shooting a 38 Special in timed fire and rapid fire. Rapid fire is five shots in seven seconds, which is easy as heck when you are using two hands to support the pistol, but when you use one, shooters either thumb cock, or they double action with the support hand. I really don't see how they shot cleans either way, but they did. When I look at vintage match pictures, the 38 Special revolver is common on the line, during the centerfire stage. Now days, I saw only one being used once.

This is my practice 38 Special. Very accurate despite all the wear.



This 1927 vintage Colt Police Positive is smooth and accurate.

WestKentucky said:

38spl is weak? Guess I missed the memo. I do like more power but very often more power either means less manageable or bigger gun. Heck I'm satisfied with 6 32swl handloads in a 3" j frame.

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.38 Special is not weak, but there are more powerful options available and, all things being relative, .38 appears weak.

.327, .357, both .44's, and .45 are all more powerful than .38 Special.

Personally, I would rather carry a .327 snubbie loaded with .32 H&R for the extra round, lower recoil, and ability to use the more powerful .327.

Federal .38 Special 147gr +p+, the politically correct magnum.
Early Smith 640's were tested for them, so why not use them?