10 mm
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David E
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David E
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I doubt it.
That wound require machining the chambers and probably different moon clips to fit the fatter case.
He's probably doing what our revolver guys here do and is using .38 Short or Long Colt brass.
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RealGun
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So far, no...especially 357 and 44 Mags. I have a number of 38-only guns and a prized 44 Special. I do shoot tamed loads in short barrel or lightweight magnums, but I load magnum cases.
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RealGun
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I have guns made to shoot the shorter rounds.
I appreciate the point that someone caring about the optimal reload time might favor the shorter case, but then he might find a gun made to shoot that case length. Can you really shoot a 10 mm gun in minor power factor class? What, you just declare it as .40 S&W?
Without needing to buy ammunition except some SD ammo, I simply haven't found a need to stray from any gun's intended case length.
...but back to the question of the 10mm revolver's place in the world and why someone would want to own one.
David E
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But then some versatility is lost. And not everyone can specialize to that degree. Also, in the case of the 10mm and .40, you have to change frame sizes, which may not contribute to the competition goal.
Power factor is determined by bullet weight X velocity/ 1000. It doesn't matter if the bullet was launched from a 10mm or .40 case. Oh, and major power factor isn't available in all divisions or circumstances. In fact, neither is minor in ESR.
For ME, a 625 makes more sense than a 610. It's faster to reload than a 10mm, brass is cheaper and easier to find, as are the moon clips. Another option afforded by the 625 is the ability to use .45 Auto Rim brass. This may be an advantage in some cases over the moon clips.
If I need a woods gun the size and not quite the weight of a 610, it's going to be chambered in .44 magnum, possibly .45 Colt.
Sam1911
Moderator Emeritus
My 4" 629 does double duty. Primarily I use it in IDPA competition. That means tens of thousands of .44 Special rounds through it because the long ejector rod pushes out the shorty "Special" cases so much more surely/completely than it does Magnum cases.
But I can load that same gun up with my same carry rig and a loadout of full-charge .44 Magnums when I go hiking in bear country. While I'm not opposed to owning lots of guns, I really see no need to go buy a .44 Special (only) wheelgun for competition. I'd rather be able to rely on the gun and trigger I'm used to shooting every week when I'm confronted by angry Yogi.
If I had a 610, that's exactly how I'd be intending to use it. Call it the "town and country" model.
But I can load that same gun up with my same carry rig and a loadout of full-charge .44 Magnums when I go hiking in bear country. While I'm not opposed to owning lots of guns, I really see no need to go buy a .44 Special (only) wheelgun for competition. I'd rather be able to rely on the gun and trigger I'm used to shooting every week when I'm confronted by angry Yogi.
If I had a 610, that's exactly how I'd be intending to use it. Call it the "town and country" model.
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RealGun
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Yeah, I keep reading that, but to me a gun is either too big for the smaller round or too small and short barreled for the magnum round. The owner strongly favors one or the other on a per gun basis.
In the case of the 10mm, I think the versatility question has special merit, since a .40 S&W-only model is pretty rare. How likely is one to own or afford both as collectible calibers?
Sam1911
Moderator Emeritus
Eh? How does that make sense, seeing as many .357s are the same size as their .38 brethren? From J-frames, SP101s, to Ks, and Ls. Or the fact that in SA guns some like the Blackhawk or SAA clones have been made in everything from .32 to .45 Colt on the same frame?
You could say that some are tailored more closely to exactly balance around handling a certain level of energy (vs. weight and size) but that's very subjective, and probably applies to a pretty small total percentage of revolvers out there which happen to be right on that edge.
What do you mean "as collectible calibers?" Neither 10 mm nor .40S&W are what I'd think of as a collectible caliber. They're run-of-the-mill common autopistol cartridges. I don't know how many S&W wheelgun collectors there are out there but the only guys I've known who had 610s or 646s were competitors of some sort. (But that's most of the folks I know, so...)
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RealGun
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I see most of the current 38s except the K frames as being chambered on a magnum frame (including J). They aren't 357s made from 38s as much as 38s made from 357s, and that is if the gun is even offered in 38-only.
There are lots of guns that are overbuilt just to support a cylinder large enough for a round count. Some are forced fits, which play up having more than 6 rounds as some great virtue, but they are still overbuilt for the caliber. Then there are those SA guns that are in calibers begging to be done on a frame size the maker doesn't have. My Uberti Stallion is a good example of a great gun (small frame 38 6-shooter) unmatched by other companies' offerings.
Oh, that must be it. It's basically shorter .38 spl brass.
Panzerschwein
member
I for one am dreaming of a J-frame 5 shooter chambered in 10mm/.40 S&W. Might have to slightly enlarge the frame/cylinder, but if they can make a J-frame .357 magnum they can make a 10mm. I'd even like a K-frame round butt with a 2" bbl in 10mm/.40, might have enough room to make it a six shooter. Have it cut for moonies right from the plant, and I'd think it'd be wicked cool. The issue with .357 magnum and moon clips are the magnums are so long they can wobble about in the clip and be ornery to reload. I'd imagine 10mm with the shorter, fatter OAL would be easier to get in a revolver.
All I know is, I'd buy one... but please keep the lock!!
All I know is, I'd buy one... but please keep the lock!
!What an eye opening thread. I too own a 629 and of course shoot both 44 Special and 44 mag. I also own a DW 10MM and did not realize that if I bought a 10MM revolver I could shoot 40S&W. Holy Toledo!
This just prompt me to sell my S&W 38 special and get a S&W 10MM. I love dual cartidge guns.
This just prompt me to sell my S&W 38 special and get a S&W 10MM. I love dual cartidge guns.
MachIVshooter
Member
Hmmmm..........trying to explain the utility of a 10mm revolver to a person who refuses to shoot .38 or .44 special cartridges in a .357 or .44 magnum revolver seems a wasted effort.
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RealGun
Member
Poisoning the well is a logical fallacy and form of ad hominem.
Sam1911
Moderator Emeritus
I think he was saying that if after the given explanations you don't find others' interest in the design appealing, it might be because you have certain self-imposed limits and operating theories regarding guns which others do not share. If you find the idea of shooting .38 Spc. in a .357 Magnum silly, wrong, or just useless, then it is unlikely that you'll find the versatility and other characteristics of a moon-clipped 10mm revolver appealing or even understandable.
Diff'rent strokes for diff'rent folks. A 610 may just not be "for you."
Diff'rent strokes for diff'rent folks. A 610 may just not be "for you."
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RealGun
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It is a strawman to suggest that I am a bigot re using the subordinate caliber capability in a Magnum gun. I reload and can achieve the lesser calibers performance using Magnum size cases.
It is indeed ad hominem to suggest that reasoning with me is any waste of effort. To refer to me directly in any negative way is contrary to the forum guidelines, even if a moderator is not particularly sympathetic.
It is indeed ad hominem to suggest that reasoning with me is any waste of effort. To refer to me directly in any negative way is contrary to the forum guidelines, even if a moderator is not particularly sympathetic.
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RealGun
Member
Thread bomb. I guess we're done here.
Sam1911
Moderator Emeritus
If you'd like to be done with the thread, that's fine. No one's required to read. We don't close them just because the OP's not interested in the question any more.
And, it is not an ad hominem attack to say that trying to explain (he didn't say "reason with") the appeal might not be productive as you have specific ideas of utility and propriety which conflict with the underlying flexibility the 610 provides. I said pretty much the same thing myself.
If you don't like shooting .38s in .357 revolvers, if that rubs you the wrong way, one of the biggest appeals of a 610 is going to be utterly valueless to you.
And, it is not an ad hominem attack to say that trying to explain (he didn't say "reason with") the appeal might not be productive as you have specific ideas of utility and propriety which conflict with the underlying flexibility the 610 provides. I said pretty much the same thing myself.
If you don't like shooting .38s in .357 revolvers, if that rubs you the wrong way, one of the biggest appeals of a 610 is going to be utterly valueless to you.
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RealGun
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All I have said here is that I use only case sizes that match the barrel stamping. They aren't necessarily loaded full up. I also said I thought the versatility of the 10mm has special merit, because the .40 S&W revolver is so rare.
That said, it wouldn't make sense to me to buy a 10mm so I could shoot exclusively .40 S&W, especially for IDPA, which gradually gets farther and farther away from the concept of competition with everyday carry guns (and holsters).
That said, it wouldn't make sense to me to buy a 10mm so I could shoot exclusively .40 S&W, especially for IDPA, which gradually gets farther and farther away from the concept of competition with everyday carry guns (and holsters).
David E
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It's silly and shortsighted to buy a 10mm revolver to ONLY shoot .40's thru it.
It is nearly as silly and shortsighted to buy a 10mm revolver and NOT shoot .40's thru it.
I think you're right, tho, it wouldn't make sense for you to buy a 10mm revolver.
For others, it makes a lot of sense.
It is nearly as silly and shortsighted to buy a 10mm revolver and NOT shoot .40's thru it.
I think you're right, tho, it wouldn't make sense for you to buy a 10mm revolver.
For others, it makes a lot of sense.
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RealGun
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Come on, now. Don't YOU be silly. One is not culturally obligated to shoot a secondary caliber just because he can. I would agree that one ruling it out categorically may be in the minority, but what if there is no need?
If I may offer a differing point of view, particularly from Sam1911 and some others, I have a 610 and I do NOT compete. Mine was bought mostly for enjoyment at the range and a little for its collector value. I do agree though that many 610 owners probably do use them for competition and I'm okay with that. Now if I can just get the other range-goers to stop referring to the 610 as a "S&W 500" (and they do)!
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RealGun
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That's an ad hominem, condescending reply. Making it personal doesn't make you right.
Fact is, I might enjoy a 10mm, but I would shoot it as a 10mm. Others are welcome to do it their way and be respected for it.
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