Quantcast

10 mm vs 44 Magnum Semi Auto Power

Discussion in 'Handguns: Autoloaders' started by Huntolive, Oct 8, 2019.

  1. MTMilitiaman

    MTMilitiaman Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2005
    Messages:
    3,131
    Location:
    Missoula, Montana
    I've seen a load chrono over 1600 fps from a Desert Eagle. Problem is it was a double charge my grandpa threw while not paying attention. He then had to have a gunsmith clean molten brass out of the firing pin channel and gas system. Pistol still functioned fine afterwards. The Desert Eagle can take full power ammo. But it has to be pretty hot to get it much over 1200 fps. My dad has been trying for years, and he has a reputation for liking loads a little hot. I could see maybe 1300 fps, but 1400 is a little generous. You're probably not SAAMI spec at that point. And the thing is, 1300 fps still doesn't give you a drastic increase in power over the 10mm Auto. I was being pretty conservative with the ballistics on the 10mm Auto as well. A 240 gr .429 caliber @ 1200 to 1300 fps isn't going to kill much any faster than a 220 gr .40 caliber @ 1100 to 1200 fps. The 10mm has at about 3/4 of anything the .44 Magnum can throw out of a Desert Eagle. Frontal area, mass, energy...however you want to define killing power. That is why the Desert Eagle just doesn't strike me as practical for anything but fireballs at the shooting range. Now if you want to throw the .44 in a 7 1/2 in barreled Blackhawk, that is a different story.

    The point is, from experience, I can tell you anything getting much more than 1200 fps from a 6 inch barreled Desert Eagle probably isn't SAAMI spec.
     
    Lucky Derby and Huntolive like this.
  2. mcb

    mcb Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2008
    Messages:
    1,765
    Location:
    North Alabama
    25% more "oomph" is not negligible IMHO and given my experience with 44 mag I have a hard time believing you can't get more that 1200 fps from a 6-inch 44 mag handgun no matter what action it utilizes, especially one with no cylinder gap. Hornady Critical Defense 240gr JHP measured at 1430 fps from a 6.0 inch Desert Eagle according to this review: https://www.gunsamerica.com/digest/desert-eagle-44-magnum-gun-review/ Hornady is a member of SAAMI so I doubt the Critical Defense is loaded hotter than SAAMI.

    But even if we take your numbers:
    A 240gr .429 bullet at 1300 fps vs a 220gr .400 bullet at 1200fps
    The 44 Mag bullet has 28% more Kinetic Energy. 900 ft-lbs vs 703 ft-lbs
    The 44 Mag bullet has 18% more Momentum 1.385 slug-ft/sec vs 1.172 slug-ft/sec
    The 240gr 44 Mag only give up about 5% section density to the 220gr 10mm .186 vs .196

    From my own work with both cartridges.
    My favorite 10mm Auto load is a 200gr XTP going 1250 fps
    My favorite 44 Mag load is a 240gr XTP going 1370 fps
    My 44 Mag has 44% more KE and 31.5% more P and both are fired/measured from nearly identical revolvers, same barrel length and both suffer from a cylinder gap.

    There is not much room to go up in my 10mm load at least not with that powder. I am already in somewhat uncharted territory with that load being longer than SAAMI OAL (no mag to worry about), over published powder charge weight, and slightly compressed. With my 44 Mag load I still have 0.2 gr to go before I hit the published limit for that powder and bullet.
    vUxCAZHm.jpg

    The one thing the Desert Eagle has going for it is a great scope mount machined right into the barrel. Assuming you work up a good accurate load for you Desert Eagle you could probably really stretch the range out with a solid pistol scope on that mounting system.
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2019
    Huntolive and JayZee like this.
  3. JayZee

    JayZee Member

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2018
    Messages:
    45
    I bought the G29 for self defense in the "jungle" concrete or wooded. It handles well, conceals well, and hits hard. I carry the Underwood 200gr JHP @1200 in a G20 I think. Not sure how it goes on a G29. I did like the ability to put a longer barrel in the G29 and longer magazine versus not shrinking a G20. G29 is easier to conceal I would presume.

    10MM is a fine cartridge and is the bottom of the barrel for woods handgun hunting if you ask me. Medium/larger game. I live in the northeast. However I do support the vote for 44 Magnum. If you want to truly do handgun hunting. The heavier slugs at faster speeds will pay dividends. My father hunted a black bear with a Ruger Blackhawk. 44 Magnum, 8 3/4" barrel. Red dot mounted on the top. Unsure of brand, it was a while back. He told me nobody thought he would get the bear..he said one guy called him "Clint Eastwood" scoffing at the idea..sure enough..300grain bullet bullet..dropped right where he popped him. Which was pretty close, bear snuck up on him in the blind. Almost didnt see it.

    I vote 44 Magnum for Hunting, revolver if you ask me. Show us pics of your DE if you take it hunting. I handle 10MM well, so just practice I suppose. Dry fire is your friend/grip training.
     
  4. Jessesky

    Jessesky Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2016
    Messages:
    722
    As much as I wish this were the case (how awesome would true 41mag power from 10mm be!) I have to disagree.
    Underwood 200gr 10mm is 1250fps
    Underwood 210gr 41mag is 1560fps

    Buffalo bore 200gr 10mm is 1244fps
    Buffalo bore 230gr 41mag is 1450fps
    (They didn’t have a closer weight loaded)

    When I compare loads I always reference these manufacturers because they always go to the true performance limits. The big box manufacturers load down for various reasons, from financial savings to legalities
     
  5. GarrettJ

    GarrettJ Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2005
    Messages:
    437
    Location:
    Michigan
    I don’t know what all you have tried, but I get a 240 gr. XTP to the high 1300s in my Desert Eagle with published loads using H110, or over 1400 with published AA#9 loads.

    I haven’t tried L’il Gun in .44, but it has given higher velocities than the two aforementioned powders in other calibers for me, and I expect it would do as well here also.
     
    460Shooter, Demi-human and mcb like this.
  6. silvermane_1

    silvermane_1 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2012
    Messages:
    261
    Location:
    burien WA
    The 10mm IAI Magnum was developed for the Automag IV, sure it's used these days in mostly wheelguns but that only due the fact that Automags aren't being made anymore, also i think the Wildey and LAR Grizzly was chambered for 10mm IAI Magnum IIRC.
     
    mcb likes this.
  7. GarrettJ

    GarrettJ Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2005
    Messages:
    437
    Location:
    Michigan
    Muzzle velocity and energy do nothing if you can’t connect with the target. With that in mind, the Desert Eagle has the accuracy potential similar to a T/C Contender or other single-shot pistol. For use as a hunting arm, I would feel comfortable taking a shot at a deer-sized critter a over 100 yards, shooting from a rested position with a scoped DE.

    With a Glock or 1911 in 10mm, I’d cut that distance to probably no more than 35 yards.

    That is me shooting and what I’m comfortable with. Those distances could be longer or shorter for someone else.
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2019 at 6:40 AM
  8. 460Shooter

    460Shooter Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2011
    Messages:
    10,225
    Location:
    The Land that Time Forgot
    And that illustrates the ongoing problem with the "10mm is close enough to 41 or 44 mag that it doesn't matter" discussion very nicely. I consistently see comparisons of the slowest 41 mag loads being compared to the very fastest or loads with the most thump in 10mm auto. I feel that is an unrealistic and unfair comparison. We either need to compare the best of both or the worst of both, because if you go for even mid range 41 or 44 mag loads, they pull ahead of 10mm auto no problem. I have several loading manuals that ALL reflect this. Yes, there is a bit of overlap, where best meets worst, but that's it.

    That isn't to say 10mm is a bad round. In fact it's one of my favorites as I feel it maxes out the ballistics to utility ratio in a semiauto handgun, making it adequate for defense against even black bear sized threats, and yet quick shots are perfectly doable with an appropriate gun and practice. But we also shouldn't make it out to be something other than what it is.

    It's all about application and the intended target. 10mm may be perfectly fine for the OP's intended use.

    I think this is a good comment, because it points out that guns are individuals, and loads are subject to so many variables in components, that I don't think it's fair for anyone to make blanket assertions about samples of one. I believe your DE hits the velocities you mention. I also believe the other one in question does not. But the reasons behind those differences in performance are unknown. We have nothing in this thread that illustrates a trend.
     
    larryh1108, Demi-human and mcb like this.
  9. ATLDave

    ATLDave Member

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2011
    Messages:
    7,772
    Man, how much gas is the port tapping on that thing? How big is the bore? Where is all the pressure going???
     
  10. MTMilitiaman

    MTMilitiaman Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2005
    Messages:
    3,131
    Location:
    Missoula, Montana
    Okay I talked with my dad and he said that he did arrive at a load getting right at 1400 with a 240 gr Sierra, but it is over book max and just under red line on Quickload. And most of the factory ammo does get closer to 1200 fps than 1400 fps. This is from a Mk VII. I don't know if they did anything with the gas system in later versions that make it easier to get those higher velocities.

    Even so, energy doesn't mean much in handguns. We all know they operate well below the velocity threshold for shock or cavitation damage. In handgun terms, a bullet with 80-some odd percent of the frontal area and 80-some odd percent of the mass probably has 80-some odd percent of the actual killing power. The Desert Eagle might be easier to scope, but the Glock is easier to shoot heavy for caliber cast lead with decent meplats. The Desert Eagle also costs twice as much initially and weighs twice as much. For the cost of the Desert Eagle, you could buy a Glock 20, have the slide cut, and put an RMR on it. Or you could get a Glock 40 to even up the barrel length and further narrow the performance gap with another 60 to 100 fps, and get the RMR for the MOS. Carrying a handgun that weighs almost five pounds, without the scope, might not make any sense to some people. The Glock is easier for most people to shoot well, easier to pack in the field, and it is more reliable. This is why Fish and Game and various law enforcement agencies as well as hikers and hunters from Alaska to Wyoming to Norway pack 10mm Glocks. Name one agency that issues Desert Eagles, in any caliber or configuration. The Desert Eagle is accurate, and fun. I get that. But it is heavy enough that you're probably better off packing a lever action Marlin and finicky enough with ammo to miss the real potential the cartridge offers. Thus, it isn't very practical. Most of us with experience behind them all say the same thing. Yeah, you could use it for hunting, but why would you? If you already have .44 Mag revolvers, they are better suited for hunting, and if you want an auto, there are probably better choices for that too.

    Carry and shoot what you're going to shoot, but I am not alone is deciding the Desert Eagle isn't practical beyond the range. The 10mm Glocks are wildly successful among hunters and hikers because they work and don't require a carriage to get into the woods. I will put the pile of game harvested by 10mm Glocks up against that of the Desert Eagle in any caliber and configuration any day.
     
    Huntolive likes this.
  11. Demi-human

    Demi-human Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2016
    Messages:
    2,032
    Location:
    The Haymarsh, MI
    :rofl:

    A Ten is never going to be a Fourty Four.

    You don't have to like the Eagle either, by the way.
    But that is obvious...;)

    Me owning an Eagle does not take away from your Glock, much anyway...:D
     
  12. GarrettJ

    GarrettJ Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2005
    Messages:
    437
    Location:
    Michigan
    Your comments got me wondering. So I brought my 6” DE to the range and shot some Win 240 gr. JSP factory ammo over the chronograph today.

    Average velocity was 1316 fps.

    But as noted by others, some guns shoot faster or slower than others, even though the same model, ammo, etc.
     
  13. Huntolive

    Huntolive Member

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2012
    Messages:
    531
    Location:
    Virginia
    Lots of great information thank you.
    At this point I'm thinking of not getting the desert eagle and putting the money into ammo and days off of work to hunt:)

    I'm going to stop jonesing for 1 right now and just see if a quality used one with no defects comes along at a price I can't refuse.
     
  14. Demi-human

    Demi-human Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2016
    Messages:
    2,032
    Location:
    The Haymarsh, MI
    That is a good way to do it.

    Unless you absolutely NEED to have a Stainless Steel Desert Eagle NOW, right when they are released, and you can't live without it one more day!

    Then I would suggest Grab-A-Gun.com.
    :)
     
    460Shooter likes this.
  15. Lucky Derby

    Lucky Derby Member

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2006
    Messages:
    2,347
    Location:
    Colorado Rockies
    I liked it for you.
     
    mcb, Demi-human and 460Shooter like this.
  16. Huntolive

    Huntolive Member

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2012
    Messages:
    531
    Location:
    Virginia
    Thanks guys for all your great info as always
    Yes I have gotten couple things from grab a gun and also like guns international I've noticed that some Cabela's stores especially in and near West Virginia actually have some great deals on used firearms in there firearm museum or whatever they call it and they often advertised on guns international.

    For now focus on hunting season and keep a lazy eye out for a deal on a DE

    It's all about archery right now in Virginia
    But I'm also working on expanding my range for handgun hunting trying to get out to 50 yards with open sights with my 357 44s in 454 casull revolvers.
    Other than adding an optic which I have on a couple of my pistols what advice do you guys have for expanding the range past 30 yards with iron sights?
     
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice