$100,000 to buy police rifles

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After making a few comments in the thread about shotguns taking a more active role in urban combat, I see this article in today's Las Vegas Review Jorunal.
As an interesting side note, I took Gunsite Basic Carbine and Gunsite Advance carbine with Jim Atkinson.
The hottest buzz word with the Las Vegas media is "assult rifle". The other day, some guy on AR15.com counted 18 uses of the word "assult" in one newspaper article.

http://www.reviewjournal.com/lvrj_home/2006/Feb-23-Thu-2006/news/6033316.html

Secret donor earmarks money for gun purchases after deadly shootout
By LAWRENCE MOWER
REVIEW-JOURNAL

Officer Jim Atkinson fires a Smith & Wesson M&P15 semiautomatic assault rifle during a demonstration Wednesday at the Las Vegas Metropolitan Police Department Firearms Range in Las Vegas. Police are testing the weapon to see whether it can be used by officers.


Recent shootouts in which Las Vegas police officers faced suspects carrying more powerful weapons have prompted an anonymous individual to donate $100,000 to equip officers with assault rifles.

After the Feb. 1 death of Las Vegas police Sgt. Henry Prendes, several members of the community promised to donate money to equip police officers with more powerful weapons, officials said.

The $100,000 donation, which the donor intends be used to equip squad cars with assault rifles, was the first received by the Las Vegas Metropolitan Police Department Foundation, said Paul Page, treasurer of the nonprofit organization, which is separate from the Police Department.

Prendes was shot and killed while responding to a domestic violence call when Amir Crump opened fire with a semiautomatic assault rifle modeled after the AK-47. He killed Prendes, then held police at bay as he peppered the cars shielding them with dozens of rounds. It wasn't until an officer with the gang crimes unit arrived with an assault rifle that police turned the tide of the gunbattle and killed Crump.

The incident prompted Sheriff Bill Young to evaluate the department's policies regarding the availability of assault rifles for patrol officers.

Currently, officers may carry assault rifles in their patrol cars if they purchase the weapons with their own money and undergo training in their use, Undersheriff Doug Gillespie said.

Department officials now must decide what weapons to buy using the donated funds, Gillespie said.

Officials said they should reach a decision within two weeks, and the weapons will only be made available to officers who want them.

Gillespie said the $100,000 contribution was made by a "very generous" individual who wished to remain anonymous. Only Gillespie, Young and the foundation's board of directors know who the donor is, he said.

But Craig Walton, president of the Nevada Center for Public Ethics, said such offers -- in which the police department knows who the donor is -- could create ethical conundrums if the donor ever becomes the subject of a police investigation.

"It's a very nice thing," he said. "These people read the newspaper and were concerned about Sergeant Prendes. So someone decided to step in and solve the problem" of police being outgunned.

But, Walton said, "you don't want to set up the risk" of a potential conflict.

Walton said a double-blind transaction, in which someone donates to a third party who then passes the money to the police department, would be a better way of transferring the funds.

Page said the donation would have no bearing on future investigative decisions.

"I've never been contacted by anyone in the Police Department asking, 'Who made this donation?' " Page said.

The police foundation screens donations, Page said. He said he has had discussions with the foundation's board about rejecting some offers. The foundation hasn't turned away any money yet, he said.

"We wouldn't take anybody's money if they were just dangling it in front of our faces," he said.

Gillespie said the process has "a fair amount of checks and balances" to ensure that a donation made by an unethical or criminal individual is not accepted.

Walton said the intentions of the donor and the police are good and that the potential for future conflicts of interest is very small.

Page said the donation was unusual only because of its size. Donors frequently request to be anonymous and choose to donate to a certain department or cause, such as the K-9 unit.

Those interested in donating to Las Vegas police can do so at www.lvmpdfoundation.org.
 
semiautomatic assault rifle

Aren't "assault rifles" by definition capable of fully-automatic fire?

ASSAULT RIFLES AND THEIR AMMUNITION: HISTORY AND PROSPECTS
Revised 30/8/2005
© Anthony G Williams

Introduction

First, I need to define what I mean by an "assault rifle", as there are various definitions around. The one I use is:

"A military rifle, capable of controlled, fully-automatic fire from the shoulder, with an effective range of at least 300 metres".

http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/Assault.htm
 
I have been beating that drum for years. But, at least the Las Vegas RJ made the point that it was a semi-auto rifle and did not attempt to make it look like the weapon was a machine gun.

FWIW: This is totally unofficial and I may be totally off base here, but the word around the campfire (aka local rumor mill) is that the officer from the gang unit who shot and killed Crump (who killed Sgt. Prendes) was not using an "assult rifle" but was using an HK MP5 submachine gun.
May be BS, I will probably never find out.
 
Aren't "assault rifles" by definition capable of fully-automatic fire?

Thats how I understood it.
Assault rifle is a full automatic (usualy military) rifle.
Assault Weapon is a semi-automatic rifle made to look like a military weapon.

I always get curious when gangs and thugs manage to get full-auto in places where even the cops cant seem to secure a few of them.
Is it anywhere near as common as the media makes it sound?
 
And the whole point of the article is.....

If criminals are armed with "assault rifles," police need to be as well armed to defend themselves and enforce the law.

The logical extension of this principle is that citizens need to be similarly armed to defend themselves against criminal depredation.
 
"The logical extension of this principle is that citizens need to be similarly armed to defend themselves against criminal depredation."

And, Nevada has "shall issue" CCW and Sheriff Young will sign your form 4 or form 1 to buy an NFA weapon without even asking you about it: you just drop off the paperwork (assuming of course that you can legally own one). That guy in the picture testing the S&W AR15 is a regular at our local gun club's machine gun match.
 
Good news. I think that it only makes sense nowadays for officers to have a rifle. It does not have to be a "semi-automatic". I think a pump, a lever, or a bolt would work about as good. I think it is less about capacity in police work than it is about power and accuracy -- the power of the round to penetrate, and accuracy, when the suspect is holding you off at a long range.

I would hope that ALL police departments would make sure that their regular patrol officers had at their disposal their sidearm, a rifle, and a shotgun.

THEN we have to make sure that they know when and how and why to use these weapons. That may be the more difficult task.
 
I think most cops should probably be issued two long guns. A shotgun obviously doesn't do much good in a long distance scenario, thus the switch to "assault weapons" by police. However, there are times when a good shotgun may be preferable, and the police (outside of SWAT) rarely need the "tactical" capabilities of an AR or AK.

A shotgun is still king in short distance knock down situations. Inside the home a 12ga with 00 buck is probably more capable than .223. A good second choice would be a .223 "assault weapon" or a good lever rifle.

As a second long-gun cops need rifles for when they need to reach out and touch someone. Still, for distance something better than a .223 "assault weapon" would probably be called for. As a second gun I'd suggest a bolt action rifle, possibly scoped, in a medium caliber like .243, .308 or 6.5x55.

Of course police budgets mean that not all cops even get issued one long gun. Given that, a .223 "assault weapon" or a lever rifle makes a decent compromise of short distance knock down power, and longer distance accuracy.
 
The largest agency in my county has an AR-15 and a Benelli 12 gauge in every cruiser, and requires quarterly qualification with both, just as they do the Glock sidearms. The head of the firearms program, a friend, has said that he just wanted his officers to have every tool necessary. Then again, he's very much pro RKBA, and actually has strongly urged me to so arm myself at my home, with both rifle and shotgun.

The idea is to give officers the tools needed for whatever situation they may encounter. Building search? Grab the 12 gauge. Searching the woods for a fugitive? Might want the AR and teh spare mags. Barricade subject? get the AR.
 
CAS700850 said:
The largest agency in my county has an AR-15 and a Benelli 12 gauge in every cruiser, and requires quarterly qualification with both, just as they do the Glock sidearms. The head of the firearms program, a friend, has said that he just wanted his officers to have every tool necessary. Then again, he's very much pro RKBA, and actually has strongly urged me to so arm myself at my home, with both rifle and shotgun.

The idea is to give officers the tools needed for whatever situation they may encounter. Building search? Grab the 12 gauge. Searching the woods for a fugitive? Might want the AR and teh spare mags. Barricade subject? get the AR.

Glad to hear that I'm not the only one thinking this way. However, I'm not sure that the AR is the best choice. I think a scoped bolt rifle is better for distance. The AR is more a compromise choice- decent but not as good as a shotgun for short distances, and decent but not as good as a bolt rifle for longer distances. If you will go with only one long gun the AR is it (or a nice revolver caliber lever gun, but police wouldn't go that way these days), but it doesn't seem to me to be a good pairing with a shotgun. Even a .223 bolt rifle would be preferable to me, though I would prefer a longer distance round (not that police really shoot for long distances, even police sniper situations aren't really any longer distance than what you or I would do at the range- just the capability is nice).
 
.......yeah, noticed that news article yesterday also. Started a thread in HTF-ar15.com, just to consider whether the donor is "pro" or "anti"; unusual chunk-of-change to be passed unless EXTREMELY committed one way or the other....more interested in their politics than their identity.
 
I'm just shocked that any PD department, since the supposed learnings from the "Hollywood Shootout" in '97, would not equip their patrol cars with at least 1 long gun, be it a semi, auto or bolt action. Asking that officers buy their own ? C'mon now !
 
Somthing I picked up from Gunsite Carbine Class

Have you ever considered what the distance is from the front door of one house to the front door of the house across the street (on average, rule of thumb) ?
 
The patrol rifle should have an ideal effective range of about a 100 yards with a working effective range out to 200 yards. Outside of 200 yards, and the police should be concerned with securing the perimeter and preparing for SWAT teams. With that in mind, a 16" AR-15 platform would do, but a 20" would be better. With a little more training, the Springfield Armory M1A Socom 16 would be ideal. If the officer needs to resort to the longarm, then they should also go for power and penetration.
 
then they should also go for power and penetration.

Actually I think the .223 makes a dandy civillian/police round. The less penetration the better in situations where collateral damage is everywhere. If more penetration is needed then the average .223 then call SWAT and have them bring in the .308s.

Now I know not what I am talking about and this is just personal opinion so take it for what it is worth. HINT: It and a buck will get you a cup a coffee. :D
 
------quote-----------
Assault Weapon is a semi-automatic rifle made to look like a military weapon.
----------------------

Correction. 'Assault weapon' is any firearm that Dianne Feinstein wants banned this week.

There's no real, logical definition that makes any kind of sense in terms of firearms design or public policy. It is a pure propaganda term.
 
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