10mm and 38 Super: advantages

[ATLDave]

Honestly when I think about 357 Sig, I don't understand why it ever came into existence. After looking at some of my load manuals, I see given the right powder choice you can fire off 124 gr bullets at really high velocity in 38 Super. I saw one listed at 1500 fps. I didn't note the test barrel length, and I'm guessing it was long, but that velocity impressed me. I know 357 Sig is very capable, and can send a 9mm bullet zipping along pretty fast, but when you can get close with a 38 Super, I don't see the capacity trade off of 357 Sig making a lot of sense.

The sole reason is so that it can fit in a "short action" gun. 45acp, 10mm, and 38 super are all very similar in overall cartridge length. If a gun was designed around a 9mm or 40 S&W length round, often both the grip/magazine front-to-back length is too short and the length of stroke of the action is too shot to accommodate the longer rounds. And the converse is not completely true, but a little bit... it's usually a little more challenging getting a short round to run 100% reliably in a gun built/designed for a longer cartridge. It's doable, but it does take some engineering.

Sort of like "short action," "standard action," and "long/magnum action" bolt action rifles.

 

[Zaydok Allen]

The sole reason is so that it can fit in a "short action" gun. 45acp, 10mm, and 38 super are all very similar in overall cartridge length. If a gun was designed around a 9mm or 40 S&W length round, often both the grip/magazine front-to-back length is too short and the length of stroke of the action is too shot to accommodate the longer rounds. And the converse is not completely true, but a little bit... it's usually a little more challenging getting a short round to run 100% reliably in a gun built/designed for a longer cartridge. It's doable, but it does take some engineering.

Sort of like "short action," "standard action," and "long/magnum action" bolt action rifles.

Oh yeah that's right. I continuously overlook this. I have larger hands, so I am always looking for larger guns that accommodate my mitts. So cartridge length never enters into my thought process other than what cartridge will fit into which frame. I never consider some people really need a smaller grip frame.

I'm always looking for thicker grips.

 

[CDW4ME]

The advantage is, something. You probably "need" it. Why? Its different. You don't have it. Options.
If its still in the "want" category, think about it more, blur the distinction, transfer to "need".
Works for me.

 

[fxvr5]

Chip McCormick makes flush-fitting 10 round 38 Super mags for 1911s.

Here is an article on handloading fast stuff for the 38 Super:

https://www.shootingtimes.com/editorial/super-powders-for-the-38-super/99160

 

[JWF III]

For me, knowing that it was the preferred gun and cartridge of the G-men going after the gangsters of the 30s is all I need to know. Cool factor alone puts it on my want list. In 1911A1 format of course.

Wyman

 

[jmr40]

A 38 Super would just be a novelty gun to me. Maybe for the cool factor, but I have no interest in one. You pick up no more than 100 fps compared to 9mm +p and I just don't see that as a huge advantage. Getting 1300 fps from 125 gr 9mm loads or 1000-1100 fps for 147's is no trick and if I need more power than that I need a bigger gun.

I do like 10mm though. Now 1300 fps from 200 gr bullets in a larger diameter is possible with factory loads. I don't have any trouble finding factory 10mm loads priced less than 45's and I have the option of shooting 40 S&W in an emergency. Some do it on a regular basis.

 

[Zaydok Allen]

A 38 Super would just be a novelty gun to me. Maybe for the cool factor, but I have no interest in one. You pick up no more than 100 fps compared to 9mm +p and I just don't see that as a huge advantage. Getting 1300 fps from 125 gr 9mm loads or 1000-1100 fps for 147's is no trick and if I need more power than that I need a bigger gun.

I do like 10mm though. Now 1300 fps from 200 gr bullets in a larger diameter is possible with factory loads. I don't have any trouble finding factory 10mm loads priced less than 45's and I have the option of shooting 40 S&W in an emergency. Some do it on a regular basis.

If you look at a variety of load data, you’ll see that the velocities you are stating for 38 Super are easily surpassable. 1500 FPS for 124 grain bullets and close to 1300 is achievable for 147 gr bullets.

Those velocities may not matter to you, and I agree that 10mm is a more capable cartridge, but we shouldn’t understate the capability of the 38 Super by talking about low end numbers, and then talk about 1300 FPS 200 gr loads in 10mm which is on the warm side.

That’s misrepresenting the differences.

 

[horsemen61]

Hey op have you bought/traded for it yet?

 

[Mullo98]

I am biased thanks to my beloved 1911 is a 38 super. So I vote in favor for it, load some fun and nasty rounds for it. See what it can do.

 

[Zaydok Allen]

Hey op have you bought/traded for it yet?

That’s just evil man.

 

[Tallball]

So you came to us to ask if you should buy a gun? Really?

 

[ATLDave]

 

[Zaydok Allen]

I know I know guys. This is not a place to come for support when thinking about conservative gun ownership. I did ask a fairly specific question in my OP.

Aside from a small increase in capacity, and perhaps a reduction in recoil, does 38 Super offer any advantage over 10mm auto?

My LGS has a Dan Wesson Pointman-38. I don’t have any practical need for it. I’ve got two 10mms, three 45s, and four 9mms. I’m trying to talk myself out of it based on logic.

I feel like I have my bases covered. So why do I want this dang thing?

The problem is y'all enablers gave me exactly what I should have expected.

"No there really isn't any other advantage. But why should that stoop you?"

I blame myself. I'm going to call today, see if it's still available, and see if the man I need to talk to is available for a trade. There were a few Ed Brown's and a Nighthawk 1911 in the case as well. I probably have enough trade resources to make that happen, but they are only chambered in 45 acp. I feel like if I'm going to buy a $2500 gun I'm going to order the specific one I want. The DW is a gun I know I'd like to own. It is more refined than my S&W E Series 45 1911, and it's in an interesting cartridge.

If they had a CZ Shadow 2 available, I'd probably go for both.

 

[horsemen61]

Hey Op please share pics of your new toy!

 

[Zaydok Allen]

Just called. They still have it. Going to try and work a deal out on Saturday.

 

[SSN Vet]

A 1911 in 38 Super is on my short list

 

[bannockburn]

A couple of buddies of mine got me hooked on the .38 Super many years ago. They liked to run them hot too! I still have a preference for Colt Commanders in .38 Super...don't know why, just do! I also love how easy it is to convert a .38 Super to 9mm. as well!

 

[Zaydok Allen]

Hadn’t considered the 9mm conversion. Good point!

 

[bannockburn]

460Shooter

Hadn’t considered the 9mm conversion. Good point!

One of the first things I did after I got my .38 Super was to order a complete drop-in Storm Lake barrel assembly and a bunch of 9mm. magazines!

 

[TomJ]

A couple of buddies of mine got me hooked on the .38 Super many years ago. They liked to run them hot too! I still have a preference for Colt Commanders in .38 Super...don't know why, just do! I also love how easy it is to convert a .38 Super to 9mm. as well!

View attachment 847885

You can’t convert a 9mm to 38 Super, can you?

 

[fxvr5]

You can’t convert a 9mm to 38 Super, can you?

Yes, a 1911 can be converted to 9mm.

 

[TomJ]

Yes, a 1911 can be converted to 9mm.

How about the other way around? I have a Dan Wesson Guardian in 9mm that, depending on the cost and difficulty, might also want to use for 38 Super. It's obviously not a necessity, just something I would do for the fun of it.

 

[Corpral_Agarn]

OP,

You helped me land that 586. I am here to offer my "support" in spending your money and getting it.

My Pops has always wanted a Super. I ended up getting him a 10mm.

It's a cool round, in a cool gun. Come'on... That's just Super.

And with the 9mm conversion, its a win all around!

 

[fxvr5]

How about the other way around? I have a Dan Wesson Guardian in 9mm that, depending on the cost and difficulty, might also want to use for 38 Super. It's obviously not a necessity, just something I would do for the fun of it.

Yup, that too.

Most 1911 9mm slide breech faces will also handle a 38 Super. The rim diameters are different on the two cartridges, and some companies have made 9mm-specific breech faces that are too narrow for the semi-rimmed 38 Super. However, rimless 38 Super brass will fit the 9mm-specific slides.

One might need to adjust the extractor tension to work with both rounds, but this can be done.

Some 9mm 1911s have a 9mm-specific ejector that might be an issue for the longer 38 Super cases, but this can be adjusted too.

Of course, you'll need to make sure your magazines will accept the longer 38 Super, and if they are 9mm-specific then you'll have to buy 38 Super magazines.

I have several 1911s that handle both rounds. All I have to do is change barrels.

 

[fxvr5]

How about the other way around? I have a Dan Wesson Guardian in 9mm that, depending on the cost and difficulty, might also want to use for 38 Super. It's obviously not a necessity, just something I would do for the fun of it.

To make sure the breech face will handle the 38 Super, ask Dan Wesson. They also make the guns in 38 Super (or used to) so it should be fine, but you can ask them or check it yourself with a 38 Super cartridge.