10mm resurgence

[hq]

Yeah I agree the 10mm AUTO is in full resurgence.

Funny how things change. Back in 2000's when I bought a Delta Gold Cup as a collectible and occasional shooter, it was almost difficult to find ammo for it. A bit later when I converted my Para 16-40 to 10mm there was a proverbial flood of comments how stupid that is because 10mm is dead and soon obsolete.

That was a little over 10 years ago. Tables have turned and it's a while since I've even bothered to reload 10mm, practise ammo is (relatively) cheap and abundant now, whereas .40S&W has lost ground. The two small LGS:s I frequent don't even have .40S&W ammo in stock anymore, it has become a special order item. Just like 10mm was a while back.

 

[S.Crockett]

Funny how things change. Back in 2000's when I bought a Delta Gold Cup as a collectible and occasional shooter, it was almost difficult to find ammo for it. A bit later when I converted my Para 16-40 to 10mm there was a proverbial flood of comments how stupid that is because 10mm is dead and soon obsolete.
That was a little over 10 years ago. Tables have turned and it's a while since I've even bothered to reload 10mm, practise ammo is (relatively) cheap and abundant now, whereas .40S&W has lost ground. The two small LGS:s I frequent don't even have .40S&W ammo in stock anymore, it has become a special order item. Just like 10mm was a while back.

I hear ya. No 40 ammo to be had at all in my area. Plenty of 9mm, 45acp and several different types of 10mm though.

 

[WisBorn]

I hear ya. No 40 ammo to be had at all in my area. Plenty of 9mm, 45acp and several different types of 10mm though.

I have seen a fair amount of 9, 40, 10, and 45acp.
Revolver cartridges are less available...

 

[S.Crockett]

I have seen a fair amount of 9, 40, 10, and 45acp.
Revolver cartridges are less available...

One of our pistol range gurus at the local club said that ever since the FBI dropped the 40 it's becoming "a dead round." He's a hard-core .45 guy though.

 

[Zaydok Allen]

One of our pistol range gurus at the local club said that ever since the FBI dropped the 40 it's becoming "a dead round." He's a hard-core .45 guy though.

People say a lot of things…….

 

[someguy2800]

I'm not going to lie, I would rather the 40 s&w survive than 10mm. What I really wish for is a subcompact double stack like a P365 or sheild plus, but chambered in 40 s&w. If Kahr made a single stack P10 though I would fork over my money for it.

 

[bnolsen]

I'm not going to lie, I would rather the 40 s&w survive than 10mm. What I really wish for is a subcompact double stack like a P365 or sheild plus, but chambered in 40 s&w. If Kahr made a single stack P10 though I would fork over my money for it.

A shame we can't have both. I suspect that none of the wonder 9s have been designed with the 40/10mm case diameter even remotely in mind.

For 40's sake it's a shame that glock didn't build a proper g22 until gen5. I'm not sure that many pistol manufacturers ever did the 40 rightly.

 

[someguy2800]

A shame we can't have both.

I never said we can't

I suspect that none of the wonder 9s have been designed with the 40/10mm case diameter even remotely in mind.

For 40's sake it's a shame that glock didn't build a proper g22 until gen5. I'm not sure that many pistol manufacturers ever did the 40 rightly.

Indeed that is the problem, none of the new pistols are designed for the 40 case diameter. In the 90's when all the police agency's were buying 40's, some handguns were being designed to fit both 9 and 40, but now with 40 sales dwindling there are no new pistols being designed with it as an option, and so it is slowly dying for lack of options. Everyone is trying to make everything as small and narrow as possible and its too costly to design and make a slightly bigger frame just for the 40.

 

[Mark_Mark]

Here’s that copper bullet I mentioned on the right. It’s next to a 200 gr hst in the middle. And there’s a 454 Casull there for size reference.
View attachment 1126590

that looks like it would hurt

 

[Mark_Mark]

Okay, H&K please follow with a new a VP10 or a USP10!! Please!!!!

Now you talking!

USPX!!!! YES

VPX <<<<< mic drop!

 

[Buzznrose]

A shame we can't have both. I suspect that none of the wonder 9s have been designed with the 40/10mm case diameter even remotely in mind.

For 40's sake it's a shame that glock didn't build a proper g22 until gen5. I'm not sure that many pistol manufacturers ever did the 40 rightly.

Agree. I’m interested in a G23-5 personally. Heard it’s a nice shooter.
I’ve put over 10K rounds through my G23-4, but haven’t shot it much lately.

I’ve always thought it was kinda hypocritical that guys who think both the .38 Spl and .357 Mag have a place while .40 should be eliminated and only 10MM should remain.

I like them all! But I do admit to really like shooting the 10MM lately.

 

[21H40]

Agree. I’m interested in a G23-5 personally. Heard it’s a nice shooter.
I’ve put over 10K rounds through my G23-4, but haven’t shot it much lately.

I’ve always thought it was kinda hypocritical that guys who think both the .38 Spl and .357 Mag have a place while .40 should be eliminated and only 10MM should remain.

I like them all! But I do admit to really like shooting the 10MM lately.

I'm all for keeping the 10mm Special in the line up! When ammo was scarce, I enjoyed being able to use either because I could usually find a couple of boxes of either 10 or 40. I imagine that re-inventing the 40 as part of the 10mm advantage (like 38 and 357) is the way forward. There are still 38's being made new.

 

[AustinTX]

For 40's sake it's a shame that glock didn't build a proper g22 until gen5. I'm not sure that many pistol manufacturers ever did the 40 rightly.

Almost every major pistol manufacturer did. Just not Glock (until Gen5).

 

[WrongHanded]

Hmmm. Strange to hear that the G22 wasn't good enough until the Gen 5. I suppose I've missed all the stories of the Gen 4 G22s falling apart. I better check the safe and see if mine has disintegrated.

 

[dylan84]

Didn't old Clark teach us that you can load 40 hotter than 10mm anyway? I like 10mm but it is only marginally better than 40 if you handload. I will not be getting rid of my 40 CZ75 anytime soon but a 10mm AR? That might be pretty cool!

 

[WrongHanded]

Didn't old Clark teach us that you can load 40 hotter than 10mm anyway? I like 10mm but it is only marginally better than 40 if you handload. I will not be getting rid of my 40 CZ75 anytime soon but a 10mm AR? That might be pretty cool!

Purposely loading .40S&W above SAAMI max is foolish. But hey, the only thing stopping you is fear and common sense.

 

[Lennyjoe]

Anyone need some range ammo?

https://www.powdervalleyinc.com/pro...dium=email&utm_campaign=CCI+10mm+Blazer+Ammo!

 

[sparkyv]

Nice! A little slow, but good enough for warmups. Is that SPP brass, Lennyjoe?

 

[dylan84]

Purposely loading .40S&W above SAAMI max is foolish. But hey, the only thing stopping you is fear and common sense.

I was no way condoning that behavior. If you reload though the difference is very marginal. The saami spec is quite high for both cartridges with a slight edge to the 10mm with its slightly larger case and 2500 psi pressure difference. If you do the simulations loading both cartridges to 35000 psi the 10mm is about 50 fps faster than the 40 with a 165 grain bullets. Load the 10mm to it's limit of 37500 psi and it is over 80 fps faster. Like I said I like both cartridges, but 10mm is definitely not a game changer. It starts stepping away a bit with heavier bullets. An AR in 10 would be interesting with a longer barrel as you could burn some slower than Longshot type powders.

 

[S.Crockett]

Purposely loading .40S&W above SAAMI max is foolish. But hey, the only thing stopping you is fear and common sense.

Yep, sure path to a KABOOM!

If you want to hotrod your handloads, the 10mm is a much more forgiving cartridge in that regard. Hardcore 10mm handloaders can push 200gns @ or near 1300fps. That's with modern propellants and new brass, of course. ... But it betters the old Norma standard by 100fps for that bullet-weight! Of course, that standard goes back to the first generation of 10mm ammo in 1983. So there's that.

 

[someguy2800]

I was no way condoning that behavior. If you reload though the difference is very marginal. The saami spec is quite high for both cartridges with a slight edge to the 10mm with its slightly larger case and 2500 psi pressure difference. If you do the simulations loading both cartridges to 35000 psi the 10mm is about 50 fps faster than the 40 with a 165 grain bullets. Load the 10mm to it's limit of 37500 psi and it is over 80 fps faster. Like I said I like both cartridges, but 10mm is definitely not a game changer. It starts stepping away a bit with heavier bullets. An AR in 10 would be interesting with a longer barrel as you could burn some slower than Longshot type powders.

Exactly. If I run quickload on a 200 grain hardcast in both 40 S&W at 35,000 and 10mm at 37,000 I get about a 65 fps difference in a 4.25" barrel with the fastest loads in each. I believe most of the factory ammo for 40 S&W is loaded way down due to concernes about case ruptures in the tens of thousands of glocks out there with unsupported chambers. I always wanted a 10mm for a bear defense gun but I bought a ruger SR40 and when I saw the numbers I was getting out of that I decided that was more than sufficient. I would still like to get a tanfoglio witness in 10mm someday just to have one.

 

[someguy2800]

Yep, sure path to a KABOOM!

If you want to hotrod your handloads, the 10mm is a much more forgiving cartridge in that regard. Hardcore 10mm handloaders can push 200gns @ or near 1300fps. That's with modern propellants and new brass, of course. ... But it betters the old Norma standard by 100fps for that bullet-weight! Of course, that standard goes back to the first generation of 10mm ammo in 1983. So there's that.

When I run a 10mm in quickload with a 200 grain cast bullet and 5" barrel, the highest velocity I can get is 1240 fps at 37000 psi. In order to get 1300 fps I have to go up to 43,000 psi.

 

[dylan84]

A shame we can't have both. I suspect that none of the wonder 9s have been designed with the 40/10mm cas

Exactly. If I run quickload on a 200 grain hardcast in both 40 S&W at 35,000 and 10mm at 37,000 I get about a 65 fps difference in a 4.25" barrel with the fastest loads in each. I believe most of the factory ammo for 40 S&W is loaded way down due to concernes about case ruptures in the tens of thousands of glocks out there with unsupported chambers. I always wanted a 10mm for a bear defense gun but I bought a ruger SR40 and when I saw the numbers I was getting out of that I decided that was more than sufficient. I would still like to get a tanfoglio witness in 10mm someday just to have one.

I had one of those and a friend still has it. Pretty much a standard CZ75 stretched out a little to fit the longer cartridge. Tangfolio got rid of some of the locking lug to squeeze it in there. A testament to the CZ 75 as a way overbuilt 9mm. I have had my CZ in 40 for about 15 years with thousands of rounds through it including handloads. Never one malfunction of any kind. I have never had that kind of reliability in even Glocks that I have owned! A little heavy to carry but it's one of those guns that is built to last.

 

[someguy2800]

This is what I get in quickload for both in a 4.25" barrel. Actually about an 85 fps difference with this bullet. This is the bullet I use in my SR40 as my bear bullet. I get 1090 over my chronograph with 7.5 grains of longshot, and I do load out a little longer than sammi OAL

 

[someguy2800]

I had one of those and a friend still has it. Pretty much a standard CZ75 stretched out a little to fit the longer cartridge. Tangfolio got rid of some of the locking lug to squeeze it in there. A testament to the CZ 75 as a way overbuilt 9mm. I have had my CZ in 40 for about 15 years with thousands of rounds through it including handloads. Never one malfunction of any kind. I have never had that kind of reliability in even Glocks that I have owned! A little heavy to carry but it's one of those guns that is built to last.

Yep I have a large frame tanfoglio but mine is a match elite in 9mm. Tanfoglio used to build 9mm, 40 s&w, 38 super, 10mm, and 45 acp all on the same frame and you could buy conversion uppers to switch between all 5 calibers. The 9mm and 40 magazines have a spacer in the back to shorten them to the correct length.

I briefly had a CZ 75d pcr in 9mm and had a P-06 40 s&w slide and magazines for it so I could switch between the two. The CZ frame was still 9mm width though so the 40 s&w mags only held 10 rounds since they were like 1.5 stack rather than a true double stack. I probably should have kept it but it was practically the same size and weight as my SR40 so I sold it because I have been trying to consolidate carry guns a bit.