124gr XTP bullet in 9mm

[ArchAngelCD]

I'm in need of a little information if someone can help...

I'm loading a Hornady 124gr XTP/HP bullet in the 9mm for the first time and I'm wondering if anyone has factory 124gr XTP 9mm ammo available? I'm wondering what the factory COAL is with that bullet. The most current Hornady manual lists an OAL of 1.060" so I'm curious if the factory ammo matches that.

I KNOW THE PLUNK TEST WILL TELL ME IF THE OAL IS CORRECT FOR MY BARREL but that's not what I'm asking. I just want to know the factory specs.

Thank you...

 

[Mad Chemist]

I loaded quite a few of the fabled 3N37 loads with this bullet. I used the Viht COAL of 1.142. And loaded them HOT, as in well over published max. The bullets can certainly handle the velocity. No discernible core/jacket separation was observed in my tests.

I don't have the factory specs, but I doubt that will help you anyway since you don't have the factory powder. What powder are you using?

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I loaded quite a few of the fabled 3N37 loads with this bullet. I used the Viht COAL of 1.142. And loaded them HOT, as in well over published max. The bullets can certainly handle the velocity. No discernible core/jacket separation was observed in my tests.

I don't have the factory specs, but I doubt that will help you anyway since you don't have the factory powder. What powder are you using?

I don't want to sound ungrateful because I do appreciate your input but that is not what I asked about. I only want to know what the factory ammo is loaded to and how can you know if that can help me or not? I didn't say I was looking to match the velocity, only the COAL.

 

[rmelton]

First 5 in the box had a COAL of 1.061 to 1.063, I use Titegroup and it calls for coal of 1.125. Powders have different coals, Blue dot coal is 1.120, R Silhouette coal is 1.105.

 

[tightgroup tiger]

My factory 124gr xtp's are also showing 1.062". Ones with the rubber ball are showing 1.085 but if I go to the top of the jacket, it also is 1.062 or thereabouts.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Thank you, it looks like the Hornady load manual is giving me the same COAL as their factory load. (or as close as it can be with mass-production)

 

[Mad Chemist]

Archangel,

No disrespect, but the powder type matters quite a bit for COAL selection due to pressure. Hence my response.

 

[Walkalong]

Use the factory OAL and adjust the powder charge as needed. Always adjust powder charges to fit the OAL, not the other way around.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Archangel,

No disrespect, but the powder type matters quite a bit for COAL selection due to pressure. Hence my response.

If that were the way we are supposed to load every powder in the load manual would have a different OAL but it doesn't. The OAL is static and the charge weights of each powder change. My question was extremely simple, I only asked about length, not pressures, not velocities not anything else, just the COAL.

Use the factory OAL and adjust the powder charge as needed. Always adjust powder charges to fit the OAL, not the other way around.

It looks like I'm not the only one who understands this. Thank you Sir...

Again, thanks to everyone for their input but for the life of me I can't understand why each and every time I start a thread I can't get a simple answer to a simple question. :banghead:

 

[[email protected]]

I measured some of mine and they were all close to 1.075. I know you were just looking for a simple answer, but can I ask you what powder you were planning to use? I have several hundred of these and the reason that I have factory loaded rounds to measure, is because I'm am going to try to duplicate factory velocity with these. I have been thinking about using accurate #7 or SR4756.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I measured some of mine and they were all close to 1.075. I know you were just looking for a simple answer, but can I ask you what powder you were planning to use? I have several hundred of these and the reason that I have factory loaded rounds to measure, is because I'm am going to try to duplicate factory velocity with these. I have been thinking about using accurate #7 or SR4756.

I plan on using either Longshot or HS-6. I will probably go with HS-6 because Longshot is very loud and flashy.

I wish Longshot wasn't so loud or flashy because it does deliver good velocities and it is very accurate in the 9mm for me. HS-6 is a close 2nd but it's still not as good. (and it pains me to admit that, I'm a huge HS-6 fan)

I usually use W231/HP-38 for 9mm range ammo and with lead bullets. It works very well and it's clean without a sharp recoil impulse.

There are other powders that will do well but those are the ones I like most. AA#7 should be fine, it's in the same general burn rate range although I have not tried it so I can't testify to it's accuracy. It's the same with Power Pistol, it's very flashy so I choose not to use it. SR4756 is also a good choice but be aware, it and the other SR powders will be discontinued at the end of 2014 so you might not want to spend time developing a load with it unless you have a good supply on hand. IMO the 9mm isn't very picky when it comes to powder choice...

 

[murf]

are you using a mag primer with hs-6?

murf

 

[Mad Chemist]

If that were the way we are supposed to load every powder in the load manual would have a different OAL but it doesn't. The OAL is static and the charge weights of each powder change. My question was extremely simple, I only asked about length, not pressures, not velocities not anything else, just the COAL.

I use 5 different manuals and I can tell you that for the exact same bullet (hornady 124gr XTP) you can get multiple OAL depending on which manual is used. I tend prefer the powder manufacturers data since I believe they have more skin in the game from a safety and liability standpoint. You seem to prefer the bullet manufacturer's data. Different strokes for different folks, nothing wrong with that.

I didn't intend to start an argument. I'll avoid replying to your threads in the future.

Goodnight.

 

[KansasSasquatch]

ArchAngel, kinda off topic but I find it interesting that you say Longshot is loud AND flashy. I've used it in 9mm but only for loads going through a Hi-Point carbine. I've also used it in .40 for everything from a S&W Shield up to 4" barreled handguns. And I've also used it in .45acp for SA pistols ranging from a XDS to 5" full size. For some reason it is somewhat loud in all of them but so far it's only been flashy in .45acp, and even then, only in barrels 4" or less. I find it odd that its only been flashy in .45 for me. I believe you when you say it's flashy in your 9mm but I also find that odd. Have you tried it with full power loads? I'm kinda thinking that under lower pressure its flashy but under higher pressures its not...

 

[ArchAngelCD]

are you using a mag primer with hs-6?

murf

I always use a Magnum primer with hard to ignite ball powders like HS-6, HS-7 and W296/H110.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

ArchAngel, kinda off topic but I find it interesting that you say Longshot is loud AND flashy. I've used it in 9mm but only for loads going through a Hi-Point carbine. I've also used it in .40 for everything from a S&W Shield up to 4" barreled handguns. And I've also used it in .45acp for SA pistols ranging from a XDS to 5" full size. For some reason it is somewhat loud in all of them but so far it's only been flashy in .45acp, and even then, only in barrels 4" or less. I find it odd that its only been flashy in .45 for me. I believe you when you say it's flashy in your 9mm but I also find that odd. Have you tried it with full power loads? I'm kinda thinking that under lower pressure its flashy but under higher pressures its not...

Yes I have loaded Longshot in a lot of 9mm ammo and it is flashy for me. You probably won't see it in a Carbine. In any event, it's more the noise than the flash that annoys me about Longshot but I guess it's to be expected since it's for high powdered shotgun shells.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I use 5 different manuals and I can tell you that for the exact same bullet (hornady 124gr XTP) you can get multiple OAL depending on which manual is used. I tend prefer the powder manufacturers data since I believe they have more skin in the game from a safety and liability standpoint. You seem to prefer the bullet manufacturer's data. Different strokes for different folks, nothing wrong with that.

I didn't intend to start an argument. I'll avoid replying to your threads in the future.

Goodnight.

Generally I do trust the powder companies over the bullet manufacturer but I wasn't looking for load data, I was only asking what the OAL was on that factory round, nothing else. You didn't start an argument but you did cover everything other than the question I asked. No need to refrain from posting in threads I create, I don't own them and this is an open forum. I don't get my feeling hurt because someone doesn't agree with me, it's not the American way...

 

[murf]

just checking. most people think they shouldn't use one because of the small case volume. actually, i used hs-7 and a cci550 primer for my 9mm loads. these days i use blue dot and a cci 500 primer.

luck,

murf

 

[Walkalong]

I use 5 different manuals and I can tell you that for the exact same bullet (hornady 124gr XTP) you can get multiple OAL depending on which manual is used.

While this is true, there are different OALs listed for the same bullet in different manuals sometimes, they are not adjusting the OAL to the powder/pressure, they are picking their OAL and then adjusting the powder/pressure to suit the OAL.

 

[gamestalker]

I've got a few factory 124 gr. XTP's, about a magazine worth. All have probably been chambered several times too. That said, those 11 rounds measure 1.059" to 1.063", with most right at about 1.062". So I agree with you, factoring in mass production and handling, it appears the Hornady published 1.060" OAL is probably the same intended OAL, as what they use for their factory rounds, which kind of makes sense when you think about.

I use both HS6 and Longshot, love both of those powders for 9mm. But I saw that you use a magnum primer with HS6. I'm going to give that a try, cause I've noticed some minor evidence of inefficient burn with loads at around mid table or less, no issues when I run them closer to full tilt though.

Hope that helped some.

GS

 

[Walkalong]

Longshot should have been named Loudshot.

It seems to be some good stuff for high intensity, high velocity, loadings though.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I use both HS6 and Longshot, love both of those powders for 9mm. But I saw that you use a magnum primer with HS6. I'm going to give that a try, cause I've noticed some minor evidence of inefficient burn with loads at around mid table or less, no issues when I run them closer to full tilt though.

Hope that helped some.

GS

You will really like the results you get with a magnum primer and HS-6. The SD numbers drop to single digits and there is little to no unburnt powder left in the case or barrel especially when loading large cases like the .38/357. In a high pressure short case round like the 9mm you will see less evidence of inefficient burn just as you stated but magnum primers will still deliver an improvement.

I have always used magnum primers with W540(HS-6), W571(HS-7) and W296(H110). Magnum primers make those powder really perform at their best. I never needed a magnum primer with HS-5 though or even W231 for that matter. I'm guessing it's because they are faster powders.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Longshot should have been named Loudshot.

It seems to be some good stuff for high intensity, high velocity, loadings though.

And right there lays the problem! If it didn't perform so well I would ignore the powder completely but it does work very well so I have to pay attention to it. My son's favorite 9mm ammo is made with a 124gr bullet and Longshot...

 

[JamieC]

Interesting about the XTPs, they are GENERALLY listed at a longer OAL for reloading, at least what I've found. The factory loads 'em relatively short. I had bought a bunch of 147gr XTPs, found I had to load them no longer than 1.100" to fit one of my guns, started slightly below start loads because I was loading them shorter than listed for my combination, (Powder Pistol), worked up from there. Got them a bit warmer than Hornady, no signs of overpressure. I wanted a bit more velocity because from I've read or seen in ballistic test, the XTPs tend to be inconsistent for expansion, seems to be related to velocity.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

The 124gr XTP and 147gr XTP bullets are very different for sure.

It's like trying to compare 158gr and 180gr .357 Mag bullets, not the same...