12GA VS body armor

Status
Not open for further replies.
W

walking arsenal

Member
Joined
Aug 6, 2003
Messages
2,076
Location
Bemidji, MN
After reading a yahoo news blurb about Zarcowhoweveryousayit planning to hit soft targets in the US i started thinking about my car gun again.

I have two weapons of choice sitting in my closet

Ones a mossberg 12GA

The other is johnny jihadists choice, the AK-47

I like both, my mossy is my favorite and my go to gun for any urban senario that would require that kind of fire power. Living in the city, a 12GA seems the logical choice. My springfield XD with a tac light is my house gun.

My AK though holds a LOT more ammo and has the capability to take more acurate head shots as well as the ability to punch body armor. It also needs less attention.

I shoot my shotty better but am a decent threat with a rifle especially at shorter ranges. The 12 packs more of a whallop per round than the AK. There is also the PC worry. If the cops show up and see me taking cover behind my car AK in hand, does the AK label me today like the white and black hats did in the cowboy B western days?

I'm not sure how a 12ga does against a vest and while one could do a head shot with a 12GA you know some of those pellets are going to miss, should this be a concern for by standers? or should there be a calculated risk of missing with a rifle as well.

Any thoughts?
 
12 gauge buck- and bird-shot is stopped by a good set of body armour.

12 gauge slugs, both the rifled variety and the saboted version, are not.

Even better? With the shotty, you get a choice.

LawDog
 
Some vests WILL stop slugs, there was a guy back east who took a slug in the vest he was wearing and kept on shooting till another slug to the head shut him down.
 
Huh, I was under the impression that a 12-Ga slug would be stopped by a vest due to it's relatively slow speed and blunt design, but also that the impact packs such a whallop that the target's going down anyway. A 12-Ga rifled slug at about 1600 fps and 2500 ft-lbs from a quick search.
 
I have been trying to decide this my self. Which to buy next, ar/ak or an 870. i think im going to go with the shotgun, which i would also carry as a "truck" gun. Just my $.02
 
As far as using an AK and being mistaken as a BG I think you are right.

The AK is a disticnt rifle easly reconized by almost any one. Also as you mentioned it is the gun of choice for jihadists and bad guys. If the cops see you engaging some one with an AK and the BG has some thing else I would not really want to be mistaken as the BG.

Just my .02 cents
 
I would rather have the AK for the larger capacity and accuracy. However, if you hit someone with a couple of 12 guage slugs, they probably won't be able to return fire even if they were wearing body armor. I would hate to know what that would feel like. :uhoh:

As far as being mistaken for the BG, I would think that in most scenarios, the shooting would be over before the police got onto the scene.
 
Slugs won't reliably penatrate modern body armor; it will just make the front of the vest touch the back.
 
Hmm.

Granted, this was 1993 and the vests being shot were out-of-service Level II's without trauma plates, but the shotgun slugs reliably ventilated all five vests. In the front, through the paper target, out the back and into the berm.

*shrug*

I'd still take the shotgun.

LawDog
 
Selection and Application of Body Armor If you were to read the requirement of various levels of body armor, you would be able to deduce that the energy levels of just about any 12ga shotgun slug is going to violate the integrity of the ballistic panels. That is why there are failure drill to the body and one to the head!
 
The 12ga really should be your house gun, not the XD. Given a choice the shotgun is much better at stopping a threat first shot. I just took a Home Defense class that pointed out the various pro/cons of each and the shotty was the hands-down winner.

Besides, when you go before the judge a shotgun is a much more 'classic' HD weapon than the AK or XD. They understand that better...
 
Hey, no matter what the situation the shotgun sounds better, no? You can have it full of 00, but you could chamber a sabot or slug, budge in line so to speak, if you just keep some in a holder on the side?

Besides, no-one is wearing armor to clear minefields, I don't think. Buck has many opportunities to wound - neck is open, also groin, also legs and arms, hands, feet, head&face. Plus when you miss the lethal envelope behind them is smaller, and walls, cars, even maybe windows would stop, no?

Will police shoot you? Who knows, it's up to them, intelligence and training, I think. May as well assume they will, so it had better be extra special reason for you not to run away instead of staying (If I don't stop him he'll blow up that orphanage!).
 
Joejojoba111- Your wrong nearly anyone working on minefields has enough armor to blow 50 pounds of explosives and not hurt the person.


I just shot several hundred rounds from my shotgun this weekend. I covered buck, bird, rifled slug, and Sabot. My shoulder is killing me. While I was destroying clay pigons, and cardboard boxes I realized anything behind it was SOL as well. Well I didnt just realize it, I just got to see it more in practice.

Even though the AK looks evil, Id suggest two things that would make it look less... terroristic. Put a m-4 stock on and remove all wood. From a distane the only thing noticable would be the mag. Even then I dont think you would look that bad. However thats just my .01 cents, since I have never had to come apon a gunfight in the US with a good guy holding a AK.

Id probably go with the AK and a red dot sight. That and you wont have to worry about maintance as much as a AR-15 type.
 
Sorry that was badly written. I meant no-one in a shoot-out is wearing body armor to clear minefields (which usually has hands vulnerable, just a point).

Yea, no arguments projectiles don't stop moving if they miss, but pellets constantly slow down and will impact the ground sooner. Rifle bullets can actually increase in penetration capabilities, roughly 200yds for 5.56 and 600 for 7.62 as rough best penetration distances. Plus the shotgun will be shooting a flat trajectory, unless you aren't shooting a horizontal target. A rifle bullet will be rising for several hundred yards, depending on your zero distance.
 
Maybe I'm mistaken, but I recall reading that the North Hollywood bank robbers were hit with 12 gauge slugs and did not go down. Anyone know about this?
 
Chris, i'd agree with you but i live in a one room apartment and the XD sits in a safe next to my bed with the keys in the safe at night.

my shotty sits locked in a case and my AK is locked to the wall. since i really dont have room for long guns in this place i have to do somthing to ensure they wont get stolen or worse put into action if i come home and find BGs in my house.

Until i get a long arm safe and can leave my shotty loaded im gonna keep the XD with the light.

Other wise your completly right, but it just doesnt fit well into my senario.
 
The north Hollyweird perps were wearing several layers of body armor. I would think that a 45-70 would be a good choice. It looks pedestrian and packs sufficient wallop, it is also quite capable of head shots to 100 meters.
 
Get ready boys and girls, standard story #26. Take a nap if you already heard it. A long time ago, I attended an instructor school with a Fish and Wildlife Officer that had a very bad encounter with a griz (it ripped his scalp off among other things.) He carried a double barreled 10 gauge pretty much every where he went after that. We put a level IIA vest against a railroad tie and shot it with his handloaded slugs. The slug did not penetrate the vest but drove it through the railroad tie. The slug was trapped in the vest sticking about six inches out the back of the tie. It didn't penetrate the vest but I agree the blunt trauma probably would hurt a lot, at least for a little while. A 10 gauge might not be the ideal mall weapon though. FWIW.
 
I'm curious, why would a Brenneke style slug penetrate while a foster style won't when they generally have the same frontal area, weight, and velocity?
The only difference is the Brenneke style has the wad attached.

Or is a "brennicki" slug something different than a Brenneke style slug?

My Mossy 500 shoots Brenneke KO slugs well, killed my first deer with one through its neck.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

KBintheSLC
  • Locked
Dragon Skin Body Armor: Too good for civilians?
2 3
Replies
57
Views
15K
Larry Ashcraft
Larry Ashcraft
K
  • Locked
Army scientists, engineers develop liquid body armor
2
Replies
25
Views
3K
bogie
B
M
  • Locked
Mossberg 500 12ga vs. 20
Replies
15
Views
6K
MUSIBIKE
M
A
  • Locked
Ford to offer armored Lincoln Town Car $144,995.00
Replies
19
Views
775
ctdonath
C
O
  • Locked
Scout Rifle vs. AR15 for urban situations
Replies
21
Views
5K
middy
M
Back
Top