147gr 9-mm

[Thompson9494]

The issues regarding 147-grain, 9-mm Luger bullets has been something I've been scratching my head over for a while. I've read through a ton of articles both validating and failing the 147-grain bullets. I wanted a few more opinions on it, so here's my question, is the 147-grain bullet any better or worse for self-defense than a 115 or 124-grain bullet and are they 'bad for your pistol' as I've heard some people say?

Thanks!

 

[Sam1911]

They're just fine for your pistol. They are used a lot in competitions because they produce a softer recoil impulse for their power factor (velocity x bullet weight) than the lower weight bullets of equivalent power factor.

As for self-defense effectiveness? Meh. 6 of one, half-doze of the other.

I'm sure there are statistics that prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that a 147 kills bad guys twice as dead as a 125 ... but that's really all marketing.

Pick a reputable JHP in a weight that shoots to your gun's point of aim and run with it.

(Remember, heavier bullets hit HIGHER on the target. Lighter bullets print LOWER. Fixed sight guns will have their sights regulated for a specific bullet weight.)

 

[SharpsDressedMan]

Heavier bullets usually give deeper penetration and run slower at the same pressures as the lighter, and thus, faster bullets. At the same time, they generally expand less DUE to their slower velocity, once again, if pressure margins are similar. You choose your weight by what you need it to do. I like the 147's, as most have proved to be more consistently accurate in my guns.

 

[Shawn Dodson]

Bullet weight isn't as critical of a factor in terminal performance as it was years ago. Today there's a 115gr bullet design (Barnes) that achieves reliable adequate penetration (12" or greater). There are also a handful of 124gr designs that perform very well too.

See - http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=19887

 

[Thompson9494]

Thanks for y'all's replies! Does anyone happen to know what weight of bullet the CZ 75B was designed for?? My gut instinct points towards the 124-gr but I have been wrong before.

 

[mljdeckard]

Overall I prefer a heavier bullet. But I recently got my wife a 9mm, and had her try the 147s, and she didn't like the recoil. I bumped her back to 115s. I feel better with her using a round she can shoot well, and possibly get another hit or two.

 

[Steve C]

Check out the MS data for standard pressure 9mm at http://handloads.com/misc/stoppingpower.asp?Caliber=15&Weight=All and you will see there is little difference between the 147gr JHP's and the lighter weights but that the 147gr bullets are at the bottom of the effectiveness list. Percent 1 shot stops are within 5% from best to worst hollow point, numbers that IMO show little significant difference.

 

[Tomac]

All handguns are relatively poor "stoppers" regardless of caliber or bullet used.
I carry 147's regardless of bbl length, more push but less snap for faster followup shots.
Good info here: http://www.ar15.com/ammo/project/Self_Defense_Ammo_FAQ/index.htm
Tomac

 

[Thompsoncustom]

Thanks for y'all's replies! Does anyone happen to know what weight of bullet the CZ 75B was designed for?? My gut instinct points towards the 124-gr but I have been wrong before.

You are correct Sir your gun was designed around the 124gr bullet. But don't worry I have the same gun and have ran, 102, 115, 125, 135, 147, and my personal favorite 173gr's bullets through the CZ and it works great. Most CZ's have a shorter throat then most but other than that you shouldn't run into problems.

 

[ku4hx]

Over the last 43 years I've loaded and shot ten of thousands of 9mm rounds with bullet grain weights of 90, 110, 115, 120, 124, 125, 130, 145, 147 and etc. All worked well with the right powder. The "odd" weights were cast.

My experience is the 120 grain family is the sweet spot, it's what the round was designed around and I'll just stick with it.

 

[HexHead]

Thanks for y'all's replies! Does anyone happen to know what weight of bullet the CZ 75B was designed for?? My gut instinct points towards the 124-gr but I have been wrong before.

Being a European pistol, chances are it was likely designed around 9mm NATO 124gr FMJ.

Euro 9mm is hotter than the stuff made here, and that's nothing new. It's why S&W started making Victory M&P revolvers for the Brits in WWII.

 

[Simmy952]

I like 147gr because I can run them in my suppressed pistols and don't have to buy subsonic ammo. Shoots will in my Sigs and M&P. Shoot some and see how you and the pistol handle them. What works for me, may not work for you.

 

[JTQ]

Here is an older article from the late Stephen A. Camp

http://www.hipowersandhandguns.com/BHP and 147 gr Ammo.htm

I believe the old (think 30-40 years ago) 147gr bullets were designed for submachine guns like the MP5. Those bullets in pistols did not expand well, which is probably where you heard your bad stories from. Newer bullet designs in the past 20 years have fixed those problems.

The 124gr bullet is still the "natural" bullet weight for the 9mm, though.

 

[Orion8472]

I am using 147gr bullets, . . . but only because I found some Federal HST boxes.

But ditto on what others have said. Nothing is "magical". Look for a good design. . . but more importantly, whatever will feed reliably in your pistol.

 

[Torian]

For suppressed weapons, it's a great pick. I know quite a few LEOs that are fans off it in an MP5 platform as well.

As far as a standard SD round for a 9mm handgun, I'd much rather carry some Ranger RA9TA or Federal 9BPLE loads.

 

[C0untZer0]

I like the 147gr best for SD in 9mm

I want something to penetrate around 14" whether the assailant is only wearing a T-shirt or the assailant is wearing a ski jacket over a jean jacket over a sweater over a shirt over a T-shirt.

The Winchester 147gr Ranger "T" Series RA9T does that.

Muzzle Velocity = 990 fps

Penetration - Bare gelatin: 13.9"
Expansion: .65"

Penetration - 4 layer denim: 14.5"
Expansion: .66"

Penetration - Heavy cloth: 14"
Expansion: .66"

Penetration - Wallboard: 15"
Expansion: .67"



http://www.winchester.com/SiteCollectionDocuments/flash-SWFs/law_bullit.swf

 

[Potatohead]

Hey how do you find out what size bullet your gun is designed for? I had never heard of that.

 

[Potatohead]

I have some PPU 158 gr 9mm. Ive never seen or heard of this weight anywhere though. any thoughts? or did i accidentally by 38's?

 

[Thompsoncustom]

I have some PPU 158 gr 9mm. Ive never seen or heard of this weight anywhere though. any thoughts? or did i accidentally by 38's?

Nah PPU makes 158gr 9mm ammo just not the most common thing.

 

[Kp321]

I bought a case (4000+) 147's years ago because they were on sale. I have found them to be extremely accurate in all my 9's including Lugers. I am now looking for another bargain buy on them.

 

[backbencher]

Check out the MS data for standard pressure 9mm at http://handloads.com/misc/stoppingpower.asp?Caliber=15&Weight=All and you will see there is little difference between the 147gr JHP's and the lighter weights but that the 147gr bullets are at the bottom of the effectiveness list. Percent 1 shot stops are within 5% from best to worst hollow point, numbers that IMO show little significant difference.

Marshall & Sanow STILL haven't been debunked?

 

[C0untZer0]

Hey how do you find out what size bullet your gun is designed for? I had never heard of that.

For most guns that were vying for military contracts, when those firearms were tested during development, the ammo used for testing most likely was NATO ball ammo.

I don't think they were designed specifically for NATO ball though.

Many of the pocket nines were designed for a specific range of ammo though... 124gr standard pressure ammo seems to work for most Rohrbaugh's R9 owners - 124gr Gold Dot specifically. I've heard of a few users having problems with 115gr ammo. The Kimber Solo comes with a specific ammo recommendation, from Kimber's site:

USE ONLY RECOMMENDED AMMUNITION
Solo is designed to function optimally using premium hollow-point self-defense factory ammunition with bullet weights of 124 or 147 grains.

EXAMPLES INCLUDE:

• Federal® Hydra-Shok® JHP
• Remington® Golden Saber™ HPJ
• Hornady TAP® JHP

While other ammunition may perform well, lighter bullets and inconsistent pressures that can be found in lower-quality ammunition may lead to decreased slide cycle time and compromise function.

The DB9 has specific ammo requirements going the other way - bullets must be under 125gr, from DiamondBack's site:

Notice: Due to potential cyclical problems involving recoil energy, Diamondback Firearms does not recommend the use of any 9mm SAMMI Specification ammunition in bullet weights exceeding 124 grain.

The use of +P, +P+, reloaded, or NON-SAMMI Spec ammunition will void the firearms warranty.

 

[Certaindeaf]

For blasting two-legged varmints, I think the 125 grain .357 loading got/gets top billing.
I'd use a good 115-125 grain 9mm HP as hot as could be loaded/gotten. It will approach that.

 

[C0untZer0]

Marshall & Sanow STILL haven't been debunked?

Yes they have.

After writing about it so many times, I don't have the energy to get into it anymore.. And it brings up the issues of what is "good" 9mm self defense ammo? You have to decide what you want your ammo to do under what conditions, and what information makes you think that any particular ammo is going to do what you want it to.

The simplistic answer is that you want your chosen ammunition to cause an assailant to desist.

How you determine whether your ammo will do that given proper shot placement is where the debate starts.

We talk about this on THR about every two weeks...

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=8630918#post8630918
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=8520246#post8520246
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=8516005#post8516005
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=8468322#post8468322
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=8230427#post8230427

 

[SharpsDressedMan]

NATO specs had nothing to do with the design and production of the CZ75. Czechoslovakia was on the other side of the Iron Curtain at that time.