16 ich slug gun in the US
- Thread starter LAR-15
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d) Shotgun
The term “shotgun” means a weapon designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder and designed or redesigned and made or remade to use the energy of the explosive in a fixed shotgun shell to fire through a smooth bore either a number of projectiles (ball shot) or a single projectile for each pull of the trigger, and shall include any such weapon which may be readily restored to fire a fixed shotgun shell.
The term “shotgun” means a weapon designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder and designed or redesigned and made or remade to use the energy of the explosive in a fixed shotgun shell to fire through a smooth bore either a number of projectiles (ball shot) or a single projectile for each pull of the trigger, and shall include any such weapon which may be readily restored to fire a fixed shotgun shell.
*edit* Sorry my original comment is not accurate. I thought it'd be an AOW, guess not. Ok here is what I found about short barreled rifles:
(8) The term ''short-barreled rifle'' means a rifle having one or more barrels less than sixteen
inches in length and any weapon made from a rifle (whether by alteration, modification, or
otherwise) if such weapon, as modified, has an overall length of less than twenty-six inches.
Yeah I'm confused myself. Sorry.
(8) The term ''short-barreled rifle'' means a rifle having one or more barrels less than sixteen
inches in length and any weapon made from a rifle (whether by alteration, modification, or
otherwise) if such weapon, as modified, has an overall length of less than twenty-six inches.
Yeah I'm confused myself. Sorry.
MisterPX
Member
If it's had a stock, it'd fall under SBS.
However the shotgun has a bore over .50 inches, and if considered a rifle would be a destructive device.
If considered a shotgun it would be a short barreled shotgun because it does not have an 18" barrel.
So it is still a shotgun, and a SBS, it is just easier that way.
You might be able to get ATF written permission since the law is not perfectly clear to build such a firearm. However it could never be fitted with a smoothbore barrel, and it would not be a shotgun under the law, and not legal for shotgun only hunting, which is probably your desire to have such a configured shotgun instead of a rifle. It would not be a shotgun, and legaly a rifle.
However since the reciever of a factory shotgun is already a shotgun, you could not modify one already designated a shotgun. Kinda like pistols cannot be built from rifle recievers without being SBR, even if rifles and the pistol use the same exact reciever platform, such as AR pistols and rifles.
I am not a lawyer.
Igloodude
Member
I'm not the only one that thought this when reading about 16-inch rifled barrel, right? 
Wes Janson
Member
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Nope, you weren't the only one who got their hopes up
K3
Member
Possibly a stupid question, but would a 600 Nitro Express be considered a DD? What about a .577 Tyrannosaur?
Oohrah
Member
I think the key here is smooth bore. A slug gun without rifling must be
18"I would think with a 16" rifled bore, I would consider some way to make
it a permanent barrel to receiver fit. However, the same in 18 to 20"
would be no questions asked, and prefer not having an individial decide
for me. I know pistols that fire shot shells are still pistols as the barrels
are rifled. My Contender has a 45 LC/ 410 barrel. With a choke screwed
on when firing .410 shot shells the patterns are dense. Any rifled bore
without a device such as the Contender choke, throws poor patterns!
18"I would think with a 16" rifled bore, I would consider some way to make
it a permanent barrel to receiver fit. However, the same in 18 to 20"
would be no questions asked, and prefer not having an individial decide
for me. I know pistols that fire shot shells are still pistols as the barrels
are rifled. My Contender has a 45 LC/ 410 barrel. With a choke screwed
on when firing .410 shot shells the patterns are dense. Any rifled bore
without a device such as the Contender choke, throws poor patterns!
Zundfolge
Member
If the barrel is fully rifled and If the bore is under .5" than its simply a rifle and could be 16" ... if the bore is over .5" than its a "destructive device" and needs to be registered as such with the ATF (then at that point I believe barrel length is a moot point).
Those are old hunting calibers and were grandfathered under the NFA (I believe this is where all the "Sporting Purpose" nonsense started).
A rifle with a bore over 1/2" designed,posessed, and purchased specifically for sporting purposes is exempt from the DD classification.
Notice the last few words of the definition:
Every slug gun I can think of can fire birdshot and buck-shot loads in addition to slug loads. They can also be converted VERY easily to smoothe-bore by swapping out the barrel.
I'm not sure if this is because of statute or not, but I noticed something peculiar about my Rossi Matched Pair- the .22LR barrel is 18.5"- this happens to also be just over the minimum shotgun length (the other barrel is a 20 gauge shotgun barrel).
That would make for a good letter to ATF Firearms Technology Branch. You should write them and find out. I have a hankering that you will be told that constitutes a title II firearm on the basis that it still fires shotgun shells, but you never know what ATF will write back
Sam1911
Moderator Emeritus
Hey "mp510",
Do you have some links or background on the exemption of .600 NE and such for "sporting purposes?" I've seen that in the NFA many times but always assumed it was too nebulous as to be sufficient for exemption. Is there an ATFE letter on this or legal cases that discussed it?
This would seem, on the face of it, to allow such things as the .577 Tyrannosaur but disallow a 20mm Boys Anti-Tank rifle. Even though, were I to own either, it would be for the same purpose. (Sporting uses, of course -- but then, again, any arm--even a Purdy double rifle in .600 NE could be raised in self defense under SOME foreseeable circumstance, which gives the lie to the whole question!)
Thanks!
-Sam
Do you have some links or background on the exemption of .600 NE and such for "sporting purposes?" I've seen that in the NFA many times but always assumed it was too nebulous as to be sufficient for exemption. Is there an ATFE letter on this or legal cases that discussed it?
This would seem, on the face of it, to allow such things as the .577 Tyrannosaur but disallow a 20mm Boys Anti-Tank rifle. Even though, were I to own either, it would be for the same purpose. (Sporting uses, of course -- but then, again, any arm--even a Purdy double rifle in .600 NE could be raised in self defense under SOME foreseeable circumstance, which gives the lie to the whole question!)
Thanks!
-Sam
K3
Member
One guy says this:
Another says this:
Who is right?
Another says this:
Who is right?
CleverNickname
Member
Guns that shoot the .600 NE, .577 Tyrannosaur, etc. are not DDs, they fall under the sporting use section. The BATFE determines what is sporting use. All shotguns over .410 could theoretically be declared DDs if the BATFE felt like it, by just declaring that none of them have a sporting use.
Sam1911
Moderator Emeritus
Hey K3,
I was editing when you posted. My reading of the NFA has always assumed the "worst" because that's usually a safe bet, and because I've never had a) the Tyrranosaurian amounts of money needed to buy a large bore African dangerous game gun and b) the desire to touch the backs of my shoulders both together
so I haven't looked deeply into it.
Lets let mp510 make his point!
-Sam
I was editing when you posted. My reading of the NFA has always assumed the "worst" because that's usually a safe bet, and because I've never had a) the Tyrranosaurian amounts of money needed to buy a large bore African dangerous game gun and b) the desire to touch the backs of my shoulders both together
so I haven't looked deeply into it.Lets let mp510 make his point!
-Sam
Here is a screenshot of the ATF import branch Guidebook for the Importation, Identification and Verification of Firearms Ammunition and Implements of War. You should notice the "owner intended to use soley for sporting purposes" having been noted as an exemption to classification as a title I rifle rather than a DD. A .600 NE is a traditional sporting round. a Boys Anti-tank rifle was not designed for sporting purposes- it was designed for shooting tanks, in combat. If you recall when several shotguns were reclassed as destructive devices, bulk was one of the factors- they were impractical for hunting and most recognized sport shooting disciplines. Boys rifles and modern 20 mm rifles (which couldn't be marketed to the military if they were title I- since that would show they are non sporting rifles with bores over .50") are clearly not sporting rifles.
Also remember that for NFA purposes, there is more to it than made prior to 1899. A firearm made prior to 1 JAN 1899, that fires an available cartidge, and was not reclassed as an antique exempt from the NFA by the director, is still an NFA item. The other way something can be antique for NFA purposes is through the use of a primitive ignition system and non-fixed cartridges- this regardless of whether it is original or reproduction.
Lastly, if the director finds a 16" rifles shotgun to be non-sporting (which he could do) it is then a DD by default, as it is a shotgun not for sporting purposes.
Sam1911
Moderator Emeritus
Thanks mp510!
That clears up a lot of stuff. Of course it all still hinges on some pretty silly opinion-based definitions of "sporting" uses and what is or isn't... but at least we know.
Much obliged!
-Sam
That clears up a lot of stuff. Of course it all still hinges on some pretty silly opinion-based definitions of "sporting" uses and what is or isn't... but at least we know.
Much obliged!
-Sam
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