16 year old rioter KILLS a man with 1 punch.

[Owen Sparks]

Yet another example of why a bare handed attack must be treated as a deadly threat.

http://www.amren.com/mtnews/archives/2011/08/teenager_16_kil.php

A 16-year-old boy killed a man with a single punch as he tried to put out fires during the London riots. The force of the blow stunned him enough that he fell hitting his head on the pavement. He died three days later from a closed head injury.

Any time you are assaulted on paved surface there is a DEADLY WEAPON present right under your feet and you can not allow your skull to hit it.

 

[Sky]

Sick

 

[dayhiker]

Yet another example of why a bare handed attack must be treated as a deadly threat.

If you choose to agree with this statement...

You better hope you have a great lawyer who can articulate this in court. And more to the point convince a jury this is the case.

If you pull the trigger on a single unarmed attacker prepare to spend time in prison. And you can't bring your favorite carry piece with you to defend yourself from your new "friends" there either.

Really ,you guys who think any attack is grounds for lethal force are living in a "Walter Mitty" dream world.

 

[CoRoMo]

...a bare handed attack must be treated...

The emphasis is mine, and I would not say that every bare handed attack MUST... ...but there is obviously enough evidence to back up those who feel as though they have/had no other choice than to return with deadly force.

...you guys who think any attack is grounds for lethal force...

The emphasis is again mine, and I agree that this should not be a universal thing. I THINK that I can handle a hand to hand scuffle, but I'm half the age of the victim in this story. The fact is that this 68-year old fellow died from a weaponless attack. People like him should certainly defend themselves without hesitation, or at least be justified in doing so.

 

[Smoovbiscuit]

That is why I ALWAYS wear a helmet while walking on pavement

 

[NMBrian]

As a 24 year old, in good shape, I would have a hard time explaining why I needed to use lethal force on a 16 year old who was unarmed. However, given the fact that this gentleman was 68, I think he would have no trouble articulating his threat.

I feel like personally, when I carry, I will do everything in my power to avoid a confrontation up until I have no other choice. Because when you are carrying, every fight is now a gun fight.

 

[cambeul41]

dayhiker says --

Really ,you guys who think any attack is grounds for lethal force are living in a "Walter Mitty" dream world.

Welcome to THR. There is a lot of wisdom to be gained here.

I have always wanted to live in a dream world; thanks for informing me that I am.

I just turned 70 today; I live near and work in Detroit; I walk with a cane; and, for some strange reason, thoughts of what I should do if attacked occasionally occur to me.

Once a proficient martial artist and fair distance runner, I can no longer run at all or fight as I once could. Even a few tough junior high schoolers could probably do me serious damage with only fists and feet. In your wisdom, at what point in an attack am I permitted to consider drawing a weapon? I have been suffering from the delusion that if the attacker(s) had the ability, opportunity, and intent to do me serious damage, I would be justified in drawing and shooting -- unless they swapped ends and skedaddled before I could pull the trigger.

For some reason , I do not swallow the notion that an attack has to be with a weapon for it to be responded to with potentially lethal force. Where and how do you draw the line?

 

[dayhiker]

I agree that a 68 year old can (with a lawyer worth his degree) articulate the need to go to lethal force.

However the OP did not state that. He chose to use this example as a blanket example to use lethal force in any bare handed attack. Which, in my opinion is overkill.

 

[dayhiker]

I just turned 70 today

For some reason , I do not swallow the notion that an attack has to be with a weapon for it to be responded to with potentially lethal force. Where and how do you draw the line?

As a 43 year old man, 5' 11" , 165lbs, with a BFI under 7% I would have a hard time explaining why I needed to shoot an unarmed 16 year old child. Make no mistake, the "victim" would be labeled a "child" all through my trial.

 

[sarduy]

some times an attacker can be stoped by a well placed punch (in a fist fight)wich i have had many in my years, or a well placed shot (in a gunfight defence situation) which thanks to the "fist fights" the gun was not needed.

you dont use a gun unless your life depent on it.

as for the old man.... if i see a 70+ people riot setting fire,i walk the other way and not riot way....

 

[cambeul41]

As a 43 year old man, 5' 11" , 165lbs, with a BFI under 7% I would have a hard time explaining why I needed to shoot an unarmed 16 year old child. Make no mistake, the "victim" would be labeled a "child" all through my trial.

When I was 43, I would have been in full agreement. Disparity of force and all that. I was over 60 before I started carrying in the US. Even at my age and condition, the prosecution -- if the case were prosecuted -- would be bemoaning the loss of the poor child who was "just getting his life turned around."

 

[Kleanbore]

We have had quite a bit of discussion on the subject of disparity of force in self defense.. This post contains an excerpt on the subject from a paper published by the Armed Citizen's Legal Defense Network on the subject. It would be a good idea to read it carefully and understand it.

Yes, a single punch can kill; that is a well known fact. No, that fact does not change anything.

The things that can mitigate in favor of a defender who has used deadly force against one or more unarmed attackers include the following:

• Gender (if the victim is female and the attacker is male)
• Fitness (invalid defender against fit attacker, or a very aged person attacked by a fit youth)
• An attacker who is trained in fighting and martial arts (if and only if that fact was known to the defender)
• Relative size
• Numbers

However, none of things is automatic. This account of a man who was charged, indicted, jailed, and tried twice after he fired a firearm when being pummeled into unconsciousness by three unarmed persons after having tried unsuccessfully to retreat in a stand your ground jurisdiction proves that.

We've covered this ground before.