1860 Richards Mason Conversions

[Twogun1975]

Does anyone have any experience with these guns? Found them at Buffalo Arms site. Said they are a Uberti conversion for 45 colt. Price is under $500 as compared to at least $500 to convert an existing percussion pistol by the time you buy the gated cylinder, shell ejector and get the frame modified to load and unload it. Any comments? Twogun1975

 

[BHP FAN]

I had one only it was a .38. One of the wrst mistakes of my life, letting that one go. As much as I love percussion Remingtons, there is no more elegant looking cartridge handgun than the Colt's cartridge conversion open-top...

 

[Prairie Dawg]

I had two for a while.
Great guns
.45 probably has the larger Army grips
Better guns than having cap guns converted, IMHO
--Dawg

 

[Hoof Hearted]

Just remenber that this is a much bigger pistol than the original (or the clones) 1860 C&B........Uberti re-engineered the gun to accept 6 45 shells and had to increase the bore to centerline dimension in order to do so. This means the cylinder is larger and everything else that is affected. They also added an extension over the exposed arbor. While this is a great help in reducing BP fouling it also necessitated a half moon cut to the bottom of the forcing cone. There have been many reports of forcing cone cracking in 45 Colt versions.

 

[Prairie Dawg]

Yup, fergot about that.
The forcing cone on one of mine cracked.
Sent the barrel back to Cimarron and they sent me a replacement.
The best RMs/Open Tops I've had were in 44 caliber.
I used 44 Russians loaded with black powder--period correct & just perfect for CAS.
--Dawg

 

[BHP FAN]

I like the .38's.

 

[Twogun1975]

Antique or modern?

If you bought one of these conversions are they considered an antique like our cap and ball pistols or are they considered a modern cartridge pistol? Twogun1975

 

[arcticap]

They're modern pistols because they fire cartridge ammo and their date of manufacture.

 

[Twogun1975]

Ship to FFL

So than they must be shipped to a FFL dealer right? But you can have your cap and ball converted with no strings attached. Our laws in WI are fairly mild compared to other states, we have a deep history with hunting and firearm hobbies.Twogun1975

 

[Prairie Dawg]

If you just buy a drop in conversion cylinder, you still have a cap gun.

If you sell the cap gun & conversion cylinder & ship them in the same box, it must go to an FFL, and you can't ship it USPS.

However, if you ship the cap gun in one box and the conversion cylinder in a separate box, you can ship it directly to the buyer and use USPS.

If you cahnge the cap gun to accommodate the conversion cylinder, like cutting the recoil shield for access to a loading gate or lining a .375 barrel to .358, I am told you have "created a firearm" and you can keep it, but you can't sell it.

Those are the rules as I understand them, but.................
Talk to some one more knowledgeable than me before you do anything that might get you in trouble.

--Dawg

 

[arcticap]

But you can have your cap and ball converted with no strings attached.

But once the conversion is installed it's considered to be a modern firearm subject to state and Federal laws (i.e. - transfer and possession) so depending on the state there are still strings attached.

I am told you have "created a firearm" and you can keep it, but you can't sell it.

I believe that a certain number can be built and sold before a Federal requirement to have a manufacturer's FFL applies.
Once in business there are Federal firearms taxes to collect and such.

 

[mykeal]

If you just buy a drop in conversion cylinder, you still have a cap gun.

Well, kinda. If you just buy the cartridge cylinder, the gun is still a percussion revolver. However, once you install the cartridge cylinder, the gun becomes a GCA 68 firearm. Reinstall the percussion cylinder, and it goes back to a percussion revolver.

However, if you ship the cap gun in one box and the conversion cylinder in a separate box, you can ship it directly to the buyer and use USPS.

Correct.

If you cahnge the cap gun to accommodate the conversion cylinder, like cutting the recoil shield for access to a loading gate or lining a .375 barrel to .358, I am told you have "created a firearm" and you can keep it, but you can't sell it.

Well, kinda. Again. If you modify the gun so that it can no longer use the percussion cylinder and it only shoots modern ammo, then, yes, it's a GCA 68 gun and you can't transfer it without an FFL license; sleeving it to .358 would probably qualify as such a mod. But cutting a recoil shield doesn't constitute such a modification. You could easily reinstall the percussion cylinder and shoot it with no problems. In fact, you've just made it easier to install caps.

I believe that a certain number can be built and sold before a Federal requirement to have a manufacturer's FFL applies. Once in business there are Federal firearms taxes to collect and such.

There is no maximum number requirement. If you're in the business of modifying guns for resale then you must have a manufacturer's license for the first one and for each one after that. How they determine you're 'in the business' is what makes lawyers wealthy. BATF says, if you're selling them, you're in the business whether you're making a profit or not. That's when the lawyers show up and ask for a retainer.

 

[nalioth]

If you cahnge the cap gun to accommodate the conversion cylinder, like cutting the recoil shield for access to a loading gate or lining a .375 barrel to .358, I am told you have "created a firearm" and you can keep it, but you can't sell it.

If you made it for your personal use, and got tired of it or found another gun you want to trade for, you most certainly can sell or trade it.

If you made it specifically for resale, well, you'd better have an FFL.

 

[BHP FAN]

Mykeal said ''Well, kinda. Again. If you modify the gun so that it can no longer use the percussion cylinder and it only shoots modern ammo, then, yes, it's a GCA 68 gun and you can't transfer it without an FFL license; sleeving it to .358 would probably qualify as such a mod. But cutting a recoil shield doesn't constitute such a modification. You could easily reinstall the percussion cylinder and shoot it with no problems. In fact, you've just made it easier to install caps...''
I, personally, like this interpretation.
People get all weird over this, and it's just obeying a law that's not there. In no way does cetting a recoil shield mean you can't convert, at will, back and forth from cartridge to cap gun.

 

[Hoof Hearted]

The Manufacturers tax stamp is not due until an 07 FFL produces 50 firearms. Then it is due on all 50. So a "manufacturer" can produce 49 as samples or prototypes........I would venture to say that this could be construed as applying to anyone who manufactures a firearm although if you do so with the intent to sell then you are also subject to the provisions of having to apply for a getting an 07 first. This got kinda screwed up a few years back as the BATFE was publicly saying you had to be an 07 for all firearms repair, they were "interpreting" the code as though even refinishing, rebluing, rebarreling and other things were manufacturing. Then after many 01's applied for an 07 they went back to the old interpretation. The "stamp" for manufacturing is a $500 filing and is good from July1 to June 30 paid yearly.