1911 Accidental Discharge
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rogerjames
member
Defective safety? Installed improperly? Why was the trigger pulled? I'm assuming a round was chambered and this was in cocked and locked condition? Need lots more info.
If the thumb safety was properly fitted it will block the hammer from moving - unless the gun is dropped and lands on the hammer. The biggest problem I have observed comes from people swapping hammers or sears or safeties from one gun to another and thinking that the safety will still immobilize the hammer. There must not be any play in any of the parts when the gun is cocked and locked.
The Bushmaster
Member
No such thing as an "accidental discharge". Either a maintenance problem or carelessness (known as a "neglegent discharge").
I carry a 1911 daily and have, on occasion, found that I or something has swiped the safety off. If you carry ANY firearm you must be aware of it's presants at all times.
In answer to your question...No.
And here comes the "flaming"
I carry a 1911 daily and have, on occasion, found that I or something has swiped the safety off. If you carry ANY firearm you must be aware of it's presants at all times.
In answer to your question...No.
And here comes the "flaming"
1911 ad
I was trying to keep it simple, kind of a "yes" or "no" thing with an explanation if there was a yes.
We heard of the AD at the Federal Law Enforcement Training Center in the early 1980's. (Firearms Training Division)
The story was that a Michigan LEO experienced an AD while attending a La Mas (sp) class with his wife. He was sitting in a chair listening to the lecture when "BLAM!"
I was stunned. Like someone wrote in a former post I though that the thumb safety blocked the hammer. I talked with our the armorers and they all agreed that it could happen if the sear and hammer contact surfaces had been improperly modified since the only thing holding the hammer back is the hammer / sear contact. (Please see attached photos).
Shouldn't hard to prove if he left it in the fired condition since either the empty casing would still be in the chamber with the safety on or if the slide sheared the safety.
Hope that helps. - kw
I was trying to keep it simple, kind of a "yes" or "no" thing with an explanation if there was a yes.
We heard of the AD at the Federal Law Enforcement Training Center in the early 1980's. (Firearms Training Division)
The story was that a Michigan LEO experienced an AD while attending a La Mas (sp) class with his wife. He was sitting in a chair listening to the lecture when "BLAM!"
I was stunned. Like someone wrote in a former post I though that the thumb safety blocked the hammer. I talked with our the armorers and they all agreed that it could happen if the sear and hammer contact surfaces had been improperly modified since the only thing holding the hammer back is the hammer / sear contact. (Please see attached photos).
Shouldn't hard to prove if he left it in the fired condition since either the empty casing would still be in the chamber with the safety on or if the slide sheared the safety.
Hope that helps. - kw
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MifflinKid
Member
FWIW, I did hear of a discharge years ago with the safety on and the gun in a holster. From what I recall the sear broke and allowed the hammer to fall.
The gun was a very old 1911 that had not been smithed. At least that was the story. The writer of the story chalked up the sear failure to metal fatigue.
I also seem to recall this happened in a class but the details are long gone out of my memory.
The gun was a very old 1911 that had not been smithed. At least that was the story. The writer of the story chalked up the sear failure to metal fatigue.
I also seem to recall this happened in a class but the details are long gone out of my memory.
They're is a misconception that the safety lock (manual safety) blocks the hammer. It doesn't. 
What it does do is block the sear from moving when the sear is engaged in the hammers full-cock notch.
If a pistol is in USGI/Colt specification an unintentional or accidental discharge if the safety lock is engaged is unlikely and I know of no case where this has happened.
However I do know of instances where the weight of the trigger pull has been reduced too far by some questionable gunsmithing; or the safety (for what ever reason) wasn't engaged when someone thought it was. That said, if the hammer falls unexpectedly its forward travel should be stopped by the sear catching in the half-cock notch or ledge, but if the sear is broken, or the half-cock notch or ledge altered this "extra safety feature" may fail.
Also I presume for argument that the grip safety is functional and preventing the trigger from moving.
My point: If the pistol's specifications are not up to what the manufacturer recommends be very careful who you pick to do any aftermarket work.
What it does do is block the sear from moving when the sear is engaged in the hammers full-cock notch.
If a pistol is in USGI/Colt specification an unintentional or accidental discharge if the safety lock is engaged is unlikely and I know of no case where this has happened.
However I do know of instances where the weight of the trigger pull has been reduced too far by some questionable gunsmithing; or the safety (for what ever reason) wasn't engaged when someone thought it was. That said, if the hammer falls unexpectedly its forward travel should be stopped by the sear catching in the half-cock notch or ledge, but if the sear is broken, or the half-cock notch or ledge altered this "extra safety feature" may fail.
Also I presume for argument that the grip safety is functional and preventing the trigger from moving.
My point: If the pistol's specifications are not up to what the manufacturer recommends be very careful who you pick to do any aftermarket work.
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rbernie
Contributing Member
And the purpose of the Series 80 system is to block the firing pin from moving even if the hammer/sear engagement fails unless the trigger was also definitively pulled to the rear.
Zerodefect
member
No.
The half cock notch catches the hammer if the first one failed. Sears don't just fail, and if they did, series 80 1911's still have the firing pin safety.
Make sure you have a high quality, properly fit Sear in your 1911 if it doesn't have a firing pin safety.
Some of the 1911's out there with cheap sears and/or crooked cut sears scare me. Proper 1911's cost extra for a reason. Pop your grip safety off and make sure the thumb safety and sear are fit properly. It's not rocket science.
The half cock notch catches the hammer if the first one failed. Sears don't just fail, and if they did, series 80 1911's still have the firing pin safety.
Make sure you have a high quality, properly fit Sear in your 1911 if it doesn't have a firing pin safety.
Some of the 1911's out there with cheap sears and/or crooked cut sears scare me. Proper 1911's cost extra for a reason. Pop your grip safety off and make sure the thumb safety and sear are fit properly. It's not rocket science.
I have read claims that the inertial of the firing pin itself can cause a discharge without the hammer ever moving if dropped barrel-down onto a hard surface from sufficient height. The Series 80 safety addresses this issue, but those without such a safety are susceptible to it.
Zerodefect
member
They use lighter firing pins and stiffer firing pin springs now.
Would take on hell of a solid wack. Maybe a 2 story drop.
Would take on hell of a solid wack. Maybe a 2 story drop.
JTQ
Member
It's probably a bit less than a 2 story drop.
Drake Oldham did some tests a few years ago. You can find his results on a few forums. Do a search for Drake Oldham 1911 drop test.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_QkWEiX2eE
I my self have never heard of a 1911 discharging with the hammer safety on. Not to say it could not happen.
While I was a police officer in NJ I carried a Colt Combat Commander off duty all the time.
I never did feel comfortable carrying it condition one because I carried it in an in side the waist band holster with no protection between the hammer and the firing pin. It was carried condition two (loaded chamber hammer down).When I carried it in a shoulder holster(Galco) it was carried in condition one, because there was a leather strap that went between the hammer and firing pin.
I have since started carrying a Glock 30s but until I become familiar with it I am carrying it with an unloaded chamber. I am sure there are some who will have something to say about this, but I don't care been carrying a sidearm for over 45 years never shot my self yet. I feel if I need to use it, the time needed to put one in the chamber is not a deal breaker. Better than not having anything at all.
While I was a police officer in NJ I carried a Colt Combat Commander off duty all the time.
I never did feel comfortable carrying it condition one because I carried it in an in side the waist band holster with no protection between the hammer and the firing pin. It was carried condition two (loaded chamber hammer down).When I carried it in a shoulder holster(Galco) it was carried in condition one, because there was a leather strap that went between the hammer and firing pin.
I have since started carrying a Glock 30s but until I become familiar with it I am carrying it with an unloaded chamber. I am sure there are some who will have something to say about this, but I don't care been carrying a sidearm for over 45 years never shot my self yet. I feel if I need to use it, the time needed to put one in the chamber is not a deal breaker. Better than not having anything at all.
rogerjames
member
Wow, that has to be one hell of a story. I'd love to know the details behind that one. Google here I come.
Walt Sherrill
Member
Carl696 said:
You've been carrying far longer than I have, and have done it in the real world (on duty and off) as a necessity -- so I'm not being critical when I ask: what do you hope to learn from this exercise with your Glock 30 and how will you know if you've learned anything from it?
Unless you possess a miraculous crystal ball you can't know whether or not needing time + physical ability to chamber a round will be a deal breaker.
Keep your finger off the trigger until you are ready to fire, same as every other gun all the time, that's really all there is to it.
You may want to get some solid professional training. That will get your mind right.
rogerjames
member
Double_J
Member
I did hear about a discharge that happened due to a poorly stoned sear. The trigger pull on that pistol had been reduced to less than 2.5 pounds and all it took was a sharp impact to cause the sear to break and fall. That gun was torn apart and rebuilt by a proper gunsmith afterwards and the owner was forbidden to modify it again by the range safety team. The old saying make something idiot - proof they will build a better idiot holds true.
Walt,Warp :
My reason for carrying the Glock with an empty chamber is that it is new to me (less than a month) If any thing is going to happen I want it to be on an empty chamber. Remember the Glock is very different from the Colt. There is no safety per say.Pull the trigger it goes off. Warp as far as training I have had the NRA MOI course and the FBI firearms course (Two weeks 3500 rounds pistol SG an MG) Shot distinguished expert in the academy and on the job. I know guys who have shot them selves with Glocks and other guns. You are spot on, if you don't touch the trigger you will not get shot.How many get killed with an empty gun? You are right it might take some time to rack the slide to load the chamber but I feel that is second to being comfortable with the weapon I am carrying
My reason for carrying the Glock with an empty chamber is that it is new to me (less than a month) If any thing is going to happen I want it to be on an empty chamber. Remember the Glock is very different from the Colt. There is no safety per say.Pull the trigger it goes off. Warp as far as training I have had the NRA MOI course and the FBI firearms course (Two weeks 3500 rounds pistol SG an MG) Shot distinguished expert in the academy and on the job. I know guys who have shot them selves with Glocks and other guns. You are spot on, if you don't touch the trigger you will not get shot.How many get killed with an empty gun? You are right it might take some time to rack the slide to load the chamber but I feel that is second to being comfortable with the weapon I am carrying
bluecollar
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Carl, if I were you I would just carry a double action revolver. That long 12 pound trigger buys a lot of piece of mind.
il.bill
Member
Thanks for the link. That article seems surprisingly well written.
Clearly, an unintended discharge from a 1911 can happen, even on a Series 80.
Clearly, an unintended discharge from a 1911 can happen, even on a Series 80.
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