1911 break-in, jams, help!
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fasteddieG
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- Joined
- Dec 8, 2006
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much ado
Congratulations on the purchase of what should be an excellent pistol! I couldn't risist chiming in because I own a newish Springfield 1911A1 that is at least equal to a Colt series 70 I bought new in the late 70's. I think the Springfield is considerably better than equal to that Colt. As far as your failure to feed problem I reccomend that when (if) it happens again you examine the round as opposed to force feeding it and firing it. The few feeding problems I've experienced with 1/2 doz different 1911's that I've owned were due to dirstorted rounds. It doesn't take much distortion around the case mouth to prevent a round from chambering properly. As unlikly as it may sound, unless you examine the round and the associated areas of the gun, you, me and the other more "senior" members are only guessing. If you listen to any other advice you will be chasing your tail, or maybe chasing someone elses tale.. One of the responses I read asked the question whether you were releasing the slide by pull and release or using the slide release (reccomended) or whether the failure occured in the middle of the clip. Talk to the people at springfield. They are serious about about providing good gear and good support.
Congratulations on the purchase of what should be an excellent pistol! I couldn't risist chiming in because I own a newish Springfield 1911A1 that is at least equal to a Colt series 70 I bought new in the late 70's. I think the Springfield is considerably better than equal to that Colt. As far as your failure to feed problem I reccomend that when (if) it happens again you examine the round as opposed to force feeding it and firing it. The few feeding problems I've experienced with 1/2 doz different 1911's that I've owned were due to dirstorted rounds. It doesn't take much distortion around the case mouth to prevent a round from chambering properly. As unlikly as it may sound, unless you examine the round and the associated areas of the gun, you, me and the other more "senior" members are only guessing. If you listen to any other advice you will be chasing your tail, or maybe chasing someone elses tale.. One of the responses I read asked the question whether you were releasing the slide by pull and release or using the slide release (reccomended) or whether the failure occured in the middle of the clip. Talk to the people at springfield. They are serious about about providing good gear and good support.
Barr
Member
I had a few feeding issues with the new Dan Wesson Pointman 7 I bought last year. The store bought ammo ran flawlessly. I was having issues when I was loading 200 gr SWC plated bullets. I tracked the issue down to me loading them too long. Once I fixed the length, the gun fed flawlessly.
soul_rapier
Member
I have a LLama 1911 and the only time it jammed was when i spilled coke on it and forgot to clean it . man it was a mess when i went to shoot it again it was caked on the slide with syrup and sugar it jammed 3 times i just slapped the slide like a forward assist on a ar it broke loose and shot about 200 rounds thur it and i went in the house and cleaned it . its a cheap 1911 but it works good
Attachments
1911Tuner
Moderator Emeritus
FTF
From where I stand, it sounds like he's describing a failure to go to/return to battery instead of a failure to feed. If the round gets into the chamber...even a little...it's a failure to go to battery.
The magazine isn't usually the sole cause of a failure to battery...but it can be a player. Most often, the extractor is the culprit here, but it can be due to other things.
3-Point Jam...aka "Stem Bind" is a possibility. If the bullet nose strikes the barrel ramp instead of gliding over the top corner, it produces a hard stem bind. When you load the chamber from slidelock on a topped-off magazine...
do you hear a "ka-chunk" sound? That's the bullet nose hitting the barrel ramp, and if it's bad enough, you can feel it. If the barrel rides the link, it will
aggravate the condition.
Other things that can contribute: Tight or tapered chamber. Breechface guide blocks too narrow. Rough breechface. Extractor hook too deep or mislocated to the breechface from the rear face of the claw...in either direction.
Do NOT polish the frame ramp beyond lightly smoothing any obvious roughness or deep tool marks...and only enough to break the edges...with fine emery cloth on a fingertip. 10-15 seconds should do. That ramp's angle is critical, and leaves little wiggle room. This oft-advised modification is unnecessary and can be detrimental to maintaining controlled feed...even if the critical angle is preserved. I know that this will likely draw fire, but I'll stand by it. If mirror polishing "corrects" the problem, there's still an underlying issue that the polish masks. If the gun is right, it'll feed...even with toolmarks on the ramp as long as they're not so deep and sharp that they actually shave material off the bullet.
Standin' by for a more detailed description of the malfunction...
From where I stand, it sounds like he's describing a failure to go to/return to battery instead of a failure to feed. If the round gets into the chamber...even a little...it's a failure to go to battery.
The magazine isn't usually the sole cause of a failure to battery...but it can be a player. Most often, the extractor is the culprit here, but it can be due to other things.
3-Point Jam...aka "Stem Bind" is a possibility. If the bullet nose strikes the barrel ramp instead of gliding over the top corner, it produces a hard stem bind. When you load the chamber from slidelock on a topped-off magazine...
do you hear a "ka-chunk" sound? That's the bullet nose hitting the barrel ramp, and if it's bad enough, you can feel it. If the barrel rides the link, it will
aggravate the condition.
Other things that can contribute: Tight or tapered chamber. Breechface guide blocks too narrow. Rough breechface. Extractor hook too deep or mislocated to the breechface from the rear face of the claw...in either direction.
Do NOT polish the frame ramp beyond lightly smoothing any obvious roughness or deep tool marks...and only enough to break the edges...with fine emery cloth on a fingertip. 10-15 seconds should do. That ramp's angle is critical, and leaves little wiggle room. This oft-advised modification is unnecessary and can be detrimental to maintaining controlled feed...even if the critical angle is preserved. I know that this will likely draw fire, but I'll stand by it. If mirror polishing "corrects" the problem, there's still an underlying issue that the polish masks. If the gun is right, it'll feed...even with toolmarks on the ramp as long as they're not so deep and sharp that they actually shave material off the bullet.
Standin' by for a more detailed description of the malfunction...
loki.fish
Member
If it's failing to go to battery, I had the same problem with my SA 1911 Loaded. It kept pushing the bullet back in the casing, very bad. Hand cycle a few through till it jams, then check the bullet and make sure yours isn't as bad as mine. I ended up sending it back to Springfield last week so they can fix it. They wanted me to finish the break in period, then I told them what it was doing to the bullet and they said send it back ASAP.
1911Tuner
Moderator Emeritus
re:
Quote:
>I ended up sending it back to Springfield last week so they can fix it. They wanted me to finish the break in period, then I told them what it was doing to the bullet and they said send it back ASAP.<
**************
The myth of the "Break-In Period" is startin' to grow a little tired. They should build the guns properly, and no break-in period will be necessary.
Break-in is for seating lugs and knocking off sharp edges...not to get the gun to function correctly.
Could you imagine the stir it would have caused had the US Army reported these types of malfunctions...and Colt/Ithaca/Remington Rand/US&S/Singer had said: "Shoot'em all 500 rounds to complete the break in before you bother us?" Wanna bet that all those contractors would have had a blue million pistols dumped on their doorsteps in quick-time?
Break in... Gimme a...break!
Quote:
>I ended up sending it back to Springfield last week so they can fix it. They wanted me to finish the break in period, then I told them what it was doing to the bullet and they said send it back ASAP.<
**************
The myth of the "Break-In Period" is startin' to grow a little tired. They should build the guns properly, and no break-in period will be necessary.
Break-in is for seating lugs and knocking off sharp edges...not to get the gun to function correctly.
Could you imagine the stir it would have caused had the US Army reported these types of malfunctions...and Colt/Ithaca/Remington Rand/US&S/Singer had said: "Shoot'em all 500 rounds to complete the break in before you bother us?" Wanna bet that all those contractors would have had a blue million pistols dumped on their doorsteps in quick-time?
Break in...
Gimme a...break!edison
Member
Tuner wrote: 3-Point Jam...aka "Stem Bind" is a possibility. If the bullet nose strikes the barrel ramp instead of gliding over the top corner, it produces a hard stem bind. When you load the chamber from slidelock on a topped-off magazine... do you hear a "ka-chunk" sound? That's the bullet nose hitting the barrel ramp, and if it's bad enough, you can feel it. If the barrel rides the link, it will aggravate the condition.
This sounds like the feed problem I'm experiencing with my new PT1911. No problem loading hardball (200 rounds without a glitch). HPs are a different story. The first round doesn't want to chamber if I slingshot load the round. Your description is what I see. I have used strictly eight round magazines to date and it only occurs on the first round (Taurus, Novak, CMC Shooting Star, Mec-Gar). If I load from slidelock and just hit the slide release, the round chambers properly. I noticed that if I put any pressure on the bottom of the mag (little finger curled under) the HPs load properly even using the slingshot method. All remaining rounds load okay from all of the mags mentioned previously. Nor is there any need to put any pressure on the bottom of the mag. The slide release method works, I've just never had to use that method to load a 1911 before. I guess the spring is a lot stronger than my slingshot.
I own two other 1911s and I have not experienced this problem (nor with any other pistol). Someone suggested that I just stick with seven round mags ("...that's what JMB designed the 1911 for so stick with his original design.") It appears that is correct -- at least with this pistol. If I only load seven rounds the JHP goes into battery correctly.
After reading your post and Fluff's post on breakin, I won't expect more rounds to "fix" the 8-round mag loading problem.
edison
This sounds like the feed problem I'm experiencing with my new PT1911. No problem loading hardball (200 rounds without a glitch). HPs are a different story. The first round doesn't want to chamber if I slingshot load the round. Your description is what I see. I have used strictly eight round magazines to date and it only occurs on the first round (Taurus, Novak, CMC Shooting Star, Mec-Gar). If I load from slidelock and just hit the slide release, the round chambers properly. I noticed that if I put any pressure on the bottom of the mag (little finger curled under) the HPs load properly even using the slingshot method. All remaining rounds load okay from all of the mags mentioned previously. Nor is there any need to put any pressure on the bottom of the mag. The slide release method works, I've just never had to use that method to load a 1911 before. I guess the spring is a lot stronger than my slingshot.
I own two other 1911s and I have not experienced this problem (nor with any other pistol). Someone suggested that I just stick with seven round mags ("...that's what JMB designed the 1911 for so stick with his original design.") It appears that is correct -- at least with this pistol. If I only load seven rounds the JHP goes into battery correctly.
After reading your post and Fluff's post on breakin, I won't expect more rounds to "fix" the 8-round mag loading problem.
edison
1911Tuner
Moderator Emeritus
Ka-Chunk
Yep edison...it can make a huge difference. The problem with the 8-round magazines equipped with the Devel folded follower is that it's not stable front to rear, and doesn't promote keeping the round properly oriented. If the feed ramp angle is at or close to minimum spec...or even a little out...the round hits the barrel ramp...which it's not supposed to do...because it pushes the barrel forward.
When the barrel moves forward, it also moves up...and if the bullet strikes at the mid-point or below, the farther the slide moves, the farther the barrel moves. This cams the barrel up into the slide too early, causing the front corners of the barrel lugs to hit the rear corners of the slide lugs, effectively jamming the top of the barrel into the underside of the slide, creating a wedging effect. The cartridge should correctly glide over the top corner of the barrel ramp and into the chamber. This creates a downward force on the barrel and works to keep it on the frame bed. The angle of entry into the chamber is held at a minimum, so the round can break over to horizontal more easily, and the barrel doesn't move up to engage with the slide until the lugs are able to mesh freely.
The barrel should only move forward and up when the breechface strikes the barrel hood. If this happens correctly, the gun will feed and go to battery with a smooth "schhhlick" sound that's not very different from hand-cycling the gun empty. Pistols such as this are like billy goats. They'll eat anything, and no mirror polishing of ramps is necessary. Unaltered WW1 and WW2 USGI pistols won't know the difference between hardball and hollowpoint ammo...nor between hardball and lead SWC ammo...and they'll do it using the old "Hardball Only" magazines.
Yep edison...it can make a huge difference. The problem with the 8-round magazines equipped with the Devel folded follower is that it's not stable front to rear, and doesn't promote keeping the round properly oriented. If the feed ramp angle is at or close to minimum spec...or even a little out...the round hits the barrel ramp...which it's not supposed to do...because it pushes the barrel forward.
When the barrel moves forward, it also moves up...and if the bullet strikes at the mid-point or below, the farther the slide moves, the farther the barrel moves. This cams the barrel up into the slide too early, causing the front corners of the barrel lugs to hit the rear corners of the slide lugs, effectively jamming the top of the barrel into the underside of the slide, creating a wedging effect. The cartridge should correctly glide over the top corner of the barrel ramp and into the chamber. This creates a downward force on the barrel and works to keep it on the frame bed. The angle of entry into the chamber is held at a minimum, so the round can break over to horizontal more easily, and the barrel doesn't move up to engage with the slide until the lugs are able to mesh freely.
The barrel should only move forward and up when the breechface strikes the barrel hood. If this happens correctly, the gun will feed and go to battery with a smooth "schhhlick" sound that's not very different from hand-cycling the gun empty. Pistols such as this are like billy goats. They'll eat anything, and no mirror polishing of ramps is necessary. Unaltered WW1 and WW2 USGI pistols won't know the difference between hardball and hollowpoint ammo...nor between hardball and lead SWC ammo...and they'll do it using the old "Hardball Only" magazines.
VA27
Member
It's my thought that the 1911 is a military gun. It was designed and built as such. As a military gun it must function no matter how grungy it gets. With that in mind, Mr Browning designed it with tolerances loose enough that sand, mud, and general neglect wouldn't be enough to stop it from working. The down side of that is that it is not a target arm. It worked every time, but it was, at best, a minute of bad guy gun.
Fast forward to post WWII. Pistolsmiths discovered that if you tightened up those loose tolerances, the darn thing could be pretty accurate. But the tightening up process could cause malfunctions unless you kept it clean and well oiled. Once it had been fired X number of rounds and the parts sort of wore-in to each other (like the break-in of a high performance engine), the gun didn't need to be squeeky clean or soaked in oil to work.
Fast forward to today. Shooters expect MOA accuracy out of every gun, even if they, themselves are incapable of shooting it that well. To make the 1911 shoot that well it has to be tight. No company wants to be known to build inaccurate guns, so they build 'em tight. If it's tight, it needs to be lubricated and shot enough to wear in the parts.
"But the Glock...yada, yada, yada...". Yeah, I know that the Glock is accurate and reliable, right out of the box. Next time you get a chance, compare the slide/frame interface between the Glock and the 1911. The Glock has about 1/20th the amount of surface contact that the 1911 does. More surface area = more friction = a greater need for either looser fit or more lubrication or both. Glock can build 'em tight and have 'em function because of the tiny contact points between the slide and frame.
In any event, it's always a good idea to shoot a coupla hundred rounds through a gun that you are going to trust your life to, don't you think?
You pays your money and you takes your choice.
Fast forward to post WWII. Pistolsmiths discovered that if you tightened up those loose tolerances, the darn thing could be pretty accurate. But the tightening up process could cause malfunctions unless you kept it clean and well oiled. Once it had been fired X number of rounds and the parts sort of wore-in to each other (like the break-in of a high performance engine), the gun didn't need to be squeeky clean or soaked in oil to work.
Fast forward to today. Shooters expect MOA accuracy out of every gun, even if they, themselves are incapable of shooting it that well. To make the 1911 shoot that well it has to be tight. No company wants to be known to build inaccurate guns, so they build 'em tight. If it's tight, it needs to be lubricated and shot enough to wear in the parts.
"But the Glock...yada, yada, yada...". Yeah, I know that the Glock is accurate and reliable, right out of the box. Next time you get a chance, compare the slide/frame interface between the Glock and the 1911. The Glock has about 1/20th the amount of surface contact that the 1911 does. More surface area = more friction = a greater need for either looser fit or more lubrication or both. Glock can build 'em tight and have 'em function because of the tiny contact points between the slide and frame.
In any event, it's always a good idea to shoot a coupla hundred rounds through a gun that you are going to trust your life to, don't you think?
You pays your money and you takes your choice.
1911Tuner
Moderator Emeritus
Military
Pretty good call, VA27. Pistols fitted tightly for match competition came along well before WW2, and they were wicked accurate. Still are...and these days, the top smiths are getting near-rifle grade accuracy from their efforts...but a 1911 pistol fitted that closely is a variant, and essentially out of spec in many areas.
"Military Clearances" isn't to be equated with "Rattles like a Box of Rocks" though. They weren't built that way, and the ones that rattle badly are usually pretty well worn. The clearances, however, aren't the determining factor in a reliable or unreliable gun. I've seen'em as tight as a snare drum, and run just fine as long as they're kept reasonably clean. I've seen'em as loose as a redneck during happy hour down at the "Dew Drop In Supper Club" on a Saturday night that wouldn't reliably function with hardball.
Pretty good call, VA27. Pistols fitted tightly for match competition came along well before WW2, and they were wicked accurate. Still are...and these days, the top smiths are getting near-rifle grade accuracy from their efforts...but a 1911 pistol fitted that closely is a variant, and essentially out of spec in many areas.
"Military Clearances" isn't to be equated with "Rattles like a Box of Rocks" though. They weren't built that way, and the ones that rattle badly are usually pretty well worn. The clearances, however, aren't the determining factor in a reliable or unreliable gun. I've seen'em as tight as a snare drum, and run just fine as long as they're kept reasonably clean. I've seen'em as loose as a redneck during happy hour down at the "Dew Drop In Supper Club" on a Saturday night that wouldn't reliably function with hardball.
FTRTB
Tuner,
I'm glad you mentioned the "Ka chunk" sound. That's what I hear when I release the slide from slidestop. I didn't think I was having a stem bind because there is no "crescent shaped" markings on the casing. The extractor, however, does leave a noticable mark on the rim. I'm not sure if this has to do with any of my problems, but most of the ejected casings get a little smashed on one side of the mouth with the smash mark being about 1/8" wide.
I've put 550 rounds thru my SA GI45 and in the last 200 it seemed to do a 'little' better but I still had 1 FTRTB and 2 stove-pipes (first time I had stove-pipes actually). Then I had one more jam that was probably the cause of my Chip McCormick 10 rounder. Keep in mind that the other jams occur regardless of the magazine I'm using.
My gunsmith offered to do an "upper reliability" fix for $110 but I'm thinking I should just send it to Springfield and let them fix THEIR problem for free.
One more thing, it doesn't seem to matter whether I'm using 230gr JHP or hardball (Winchester or Magtech).
Revision: I just chambered a round from slidestop and I guess I'm not getting the "ka chunk" anymore, but I was. Nevertheless, it still acts up a bit whenever I take it out. Since it's getting a little better with ever 200 rounds or so, maybe I should just let it break in some more?
:banghead:
-Benjamin
Tuner,
I'm glad you mentioned the "Ka chunk" sound. That's what I hear when I release the slide from slidestop. I didn't think I was having a stem bind because there is no "crescent shaped" markings on the casing. The extractor, however, does leave a noticable mark on the rim. I'm not sure if this has to do with any of my problems, but most of the ejected casings get a little smashed on one side of the mouth with the smash mark being about 1/8" wide.
I've put 550 rounds thru my SA GI45 and in the last 200 it seemed to do a 'little' better but I still had 1 FTRTB and 2 stove-pipes (first time I had stove-pipes actually). Then I had one more jam that was probably the cause of my Chip McCormick 10 rounder. Keep in mind that the other jams occur regardless of the magazine I'm using.
My gunsmith offered to do an "upper reliability" fix for $110 but I'm thinking I should just send it to Springfield and let them fix THEIR problem for free.
One more thing, it doesn't seem to matter whether I'm using 230gr JHP or hardball (Winchester or Magtech).
Revision: I just chambered a round from slidestop and I guess I'm not getting the "ka chunk" anymore, but I was. Nevertheless, it still acts up a bit whenever I take it out. Since it's getting a little better with ever 200 rounds or so, maybe I should just let it break in some more?
:banghead: -Benjamin
Naw... Ya' should blow a 100 bucks + for an upper reliability fix (?)
Seriously, the thing here is that yes - you should send it to the manufacturer - why should you have to spend your money to make their gun reliable?
But if the problem is caused by an MIM extractor, they'll replace the one you got with one just like it. :banghead:
If I knew Springers were this much of a problem before I got the gun, I probably wouldn't have got one. When is Springfield going to realize how pathetic their QC is? Not to make this your problem Old Fuff or 1911Tuner, but I wonder if it would help at all if you were to call them (with all your 1911 expertise), tell them what you think of their product, and maybe tell 'em about this website? They may be interested in, at least, this website since most of the instances their name is mentioned it's not in a complimentary context. I'd do it, but what do I know?
-Benjamin
-Benjamin
I think they do know what we think. They don't (pardon the expression) live in a cave...
They also couldn't care less. Because they are selling these guns as fast as they can make them, and of course to be fair, some of them work fine - at least in the short run. What we see here is the problem children.
The thing from my perspective is that we see too many problem children. :banghead:
The other problem is that very few potential buyers understand, or maybe just don't believe, that the S.A. G.I. pistol they buy really isn't the same as the ones made during World War Two. After all, it looks the same...
Last but not least, is there an owner out there that doesn't want to tinker with it?
They also couldn't care less. Because they are selling these guns as fast as they can make them, and of course to be fair, some of them work fine - at least in the short run. What we see here is the problem children.
The thing from my perspective is that we see too many problem children. :banghead:
The other problem is that very few potential buyers understand, or maybe just don't believe, that the S.A. G.I. pistol they buy really isn't the same as the ones made during World War Two. After all, it looks the same...
Last but not least, is there an owner out there that doesn't want to tinker with it?
Jerry Morris
Member
- Joined
- Feb 22, 2003
- Messages
- 239
1911 makers know many buyer will have custom extras added to their package. Many 1911 buyers know what they want and know it is not there when they buy the pistol.
I am one of those types. I have gone throught the mill with many of the other types of handguns. A Glock, or a SIG comes to the buyer as it should, because there is no service market for it, in comparison to the 1911. It had better be what you want. If a Glock, or SIG is not right for you, you bought the wrong gun. No blemish on those guns.
When I buy a 1911, I look at it before I buy it. If it has a FL spring guide, I know it is going to get changed out to a milspec style. The the trigger is less than perfect, I will make it so. Out of the last half dozen 1911s I have have, only one really needed a break-in and that was a 3 inch variant.
You cannot reasonably do to a Glock, or SIG, the things commonly done to a 1911. They are different critters. The triggers can be somewhat corrected, but they are not meant to give the crisp, smooth, short reset triggers like a 1911.
All of my reliability issues have been traced to defective magazines, or out of spec handloads. All have been service grade accurate. They never stayed that way, I made them better, or had it done.
Jerry
I am one of those types. I have gone throught the mill with many of the other types of handguns. A Glock, or a SIG comes to the buyer as it should, because there is no service market for it, in comparison to the 1911. It had better be what you want. If a Glock, or SIG is not right for you, you bought the wrong gun. No blemish on those guns.
When I buy a 1911, I look at it before I buy it. If it has a FL spring guide, I know it is going to get changed out to a milspec style. The the trigger is less than perfect, I will make it so. Out of the last half dozen 1911s I have have, only one really needed a break-in and that was a 3 inch variant.
You cannot reasonably do to a Glock, or SIG, the things commonly done to a 1911. They are different critters. The triggers can be somewhat corrected, but they are not meant to give the crisp, smooth, short reset triggers like a 1911.
All of my reliability issues have been traced to defective magazines, or out of spec handloads. All have been service grade accurate. They never stayed that way, I made them better, or had it done.
Jerry
gudel
Member
No, it should go to around 400 before it died
My PX9151L dead after 400 rounds fully cleaned new out of the box.Send it back to SA, make sure they eat the cost of shipping back and forth, then sell your 1911 to get a real gun, gun that works.
1911Tuner
Moderator Emeritus
Ka-Chunk
Benjamin...One way to find out if the extractor is a player is to remove it and see if the gun goes to battery smoother than it does with it.
Benjamin...One way to find out if the extractor is a player is to remove it and see if the gun goes to battery smoother than it does with it.
silversport
Member
what about external extractor pistols like SiGARMS GSRs and Revolutions???
Bill
Bill
ezypikns
Member
I knew I was right.....
to buy that S&W 1911.
to buy that S&W 1911.
Well
I have a DW PM7-S and a DW Guardian Duce. Both very tight, very accurate pistols. Both have internal extractors and if I have problems that is where I usually look.
I don't know if its on this site but search up Wilson's or other extractor tuning procedure. Its fairly easy.
My extractor was letting the round drop at the rear causing an occasional jam.
As I recall, in old war times CNC tolerances were not attainable so the 1911's were a bit looser and more forgiving, but if the extractor is the issue even they might jam every once in a while.
I have a DW PM7-S and a DW Guardian Duce. Both very tight, very accurate pistols. Both have internal extractors and if I have problems that is where I usually look.
I don't know if its on this site but search up Wilson's or other extractor tuning procedure. Its fairly easy.
My extractor was letting the round drop at the rear causing an occasional jam.
As I recall, in old war times CNC tolerances were not attainable so the 1911's were a bit looser and more forgiving, but if the extractor is the issue even they might jam every once in a while.
But 60 + years have gone by since the end of World War Two, and the outstanding record of the 1911A1's reliability under the worst of circumstances is a matter of recorded history.
As for the extractors, a glance at period blueprints will show that they were made to acceptable tolerances for the application, and more important they were made out of correctly heat-treated spring steel.
Today the maker's attitude is; "anything will do - as long as it isn't expensive." :banghead:
So who makes the closest copy of the original 1911-A1? Sure I like to tinker with stuff, but I'm not ready to void the warranty on my GI45. I'm not into adding in all these "cool looking" features like the holy trigger, the holy hammer and all those other funky things. To me the original looks good, and it's what I want. Are there any GOOD aftermarket extractors with the same parkerized finish? I have no problem changing it out if I can find something that looks like it's supposed to be there in the first place.
The last time I went shooting I looked at a Colt 70 (new) and I noticed the throat was substantially smoothed out & polished, much more so than my Springer. Are these a good gun to get new (Colt 1911 series 70)? They're about $300 more, but I'm wondering if they're worth it. I prefer the parkerized look but I'll settle for something else if it works better.
Regards,
Benjamin
I
agree that materials used today leave a lot to be desired, gun makers and most manufacturers cut corners to save money and make profits especially public companies.
I don't think I disputed the reliability of the 1911 or its great history. However, considering the materials used today, various pieces put together from different manufacturers, lack of QC, quality materials, lack of customer service as it used to be it is no wonder that todays 1911 is not as good as it used to be and has to be tuned a bit to work properly, which is why the 1911 gets a bum rap.
I think what I mean is todays 1911 are not built entirely to military specifications, are much tighter etc.
Plus, back then it was mostly ball ammo, which should feed through any 1911 even today, now there are all types of ammo from ball to JHP etc.
It was designed to feed ball ammo.
A good extractor, good ammunition, and good magazines (of which there are also many variations) should be all that is needed. Plus regular care and maintenance.
The 1911's I have are just as reliabile as any of my other guns. I have a Glock, it has jammed a couple times also. Any gun can have a malfunction new or old.
Benjamin:
You have a pretty good gun, clean it good, lube it, check the extractor tune while its apart, reassemble, hold it tight and shoot it at the range. If there are still issues, send it back for warranty service which you deserve. Mass production makes mistakes.
Yes there is one, I don't want to tinker with mine. Do I enjoy tearing it down etc.? Yes. You will have to maintain your gun no matter what it is.
Mine were stem jams as described by 1911Tuner, especially the first round with JHP, then loose extractor tune. Ball ammo it eats. It shoots well once its closed though. Yes, mine are scattered parts assembled. The more I shoot it the better it gets.
I am by no means knocking the 1911 I have two and want more. But "some" of todays guns, any guns, will need adjusting. If it shoots ball well, then try Corbon Powr'bal or Federal EFMJ ammo for expanding carry loads similar to ball.
agree that materials used today leave a lot to be desired, gun makers and most manufacturers cut corners to save money and make profits especially public companies.
I don't think I disputed the reliability of the 1911 or its great history. However, considering the materials used today, various pieces put together from different manufacturers, lack of QC, quality materials, lack of customer service as it used to be it is no wonder that todays 1911 is not as good as it used to be and has to be tuned a bit to work properly, which is why the 1911 gets a bum rap.
I think what I mean is todays 1911 are not built entirely to military specifications, are much tighter etc.
Plus, back then it was mostly ball ammo, which should feed through any 1911 even today, now there are all types of ammo from ball to JHP etc.
It was designed to feed ball ammo.
A good extractor, good ammunition, and good magazines (of which there are also many variations) should be all that is needed. Plus regular care and maintenance.
The 1911's I have are just as reliabile as any of my other guns. I have a Glock, it has jammed a couple times also. Any gun can have a malfunction new or old.
Benjamin:
You have a pretty good gun, clean it good, lube it, check the extractor tune while its apart, reassemble, hold it tight and shoot it at the range. If there are still issues, send it back for warranty service which you deserve. Mass production makes mistakes.
Yes there is one, I don't want to tinker with mine. Do I enjoy tearing it down etc.? Yes. You will have to maintain your gun no matter what it is.
Mine were stem jams as described by 1911Tuner, especially the first round with JHP, then loose extractor tune. Ball ammo it eats. It shoots well once its closed though. Yes, mine are scattered parts assembled. The more I shoot it the better it gets.
I am by no means knocking the 1911 I have two and want more. But "some" of todays guns, any guns, will need adjusting. If it shoots ball well, then try Corbon Powr'bal or Federal EFMJ ammo for expanding carry loads similar to ball.
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