1911 build options?

[justin22885]

im building a 1911 soon, im wanting to do an 80% project.. anyway, this will be a combat pistol type of configuration, so weight and concealment are not a factor as itll primarily be carried open on a thigh holster when carried... whats most important to me with this type of build will be reliability.. but i also want good accuracy and a decent capacity as well... this will be chambered for .38 super

it will probably be a full size with extended threaded barrel, it will need an underbarrel rail.. whether this is part of the 80% or welded on prior to heat treating i dont know, doesnt seem to really matter.. and since reliability (and with it durability) are key while weight is a non-issue, it will of course be a steel frame..

i will also be welding the grip safety and mainspring housing together and clearing some material on the inside to de-activate the grip safety and i may even omit the thumb safety as well, as it will probably be carried hammer down only quite possibly with a light DAO trigger group using a para frame but im not opposed to carrying it hammer down single action so long as i have a large spur hammer

so im still trying to decide on DAO or a single action trigger.. and im also trying to determine if this pistol should be a doublestack (based on a p14 or STI 2011 style frame), or single stack.. ive heard the doublestack pistols are much more prone to feeding problems resulting in malfunctions due to the double stack, single feed configuration of the magazines.. so for the sake of reliability i may just stick with a single stack but use an extended 12rd magazine (wont even stick out that far for a 38 super)

im also still looking for slide options, as well as sights.. id prefer either fixed tritium or a really small red-dot in place of the rear sight.. and may do some lightening cuts just to make it a tad more unique

any ideas as to things i can do it, things that may be out of the ordinary or would lend itself well to reliability, accuracy, or durability?.. or just simply make it that much more unique or different when finished?

 

[JTQ]

Since I'm a 1911 guy and I see a lot of these threads from young guys who've grown up with Glock's and AR's, the 1911 is not a Glock or AR. None of the parts will snap into place. Nearly every part will require some fitting. You're going to need some skill and tools to get this done. If you understand that going in, good luck, and have fun.

I don't see an advantage to a 1911 with a double action trigger, especially if you are looking for a double stack. The advantage of the 1911 is in the single action trigger and the slim grip. If you want a DA gun or a double stack gun, you'd probably be better off with something else that probably wouldn't need as many modifications as you're trying to do to a 1911 and be significantly cheaper and probably function better.

The general feeling among 1911 folks (not all of course) is Condition 2 (hammer down on a loaded round) is generally a bad idea. Here's a little over the top video explaining the 1911 Conditions of Readiness ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2-1IZk1A28 ). In addition, most beavertail grip safeties, which most folks prefer, are not compatible with spur hammers.

Here's an article that may be helpful. You may want to start with the "Lesson's Learned" section. "How I did it 1911" http://how-i-did-it.org/1911-project/

This Tiger McKee article may give you some other ideas. http://fmgpublications.com/1911-modifications/

 

[JTQ]

i may just stick with a single stack but use an extended 12rd magazine (wont even stick out that far for a 38 super)

I've got to admit as I'm not a .38 Super guy, I had to look up availability for 12 round .38 Super mags. I can't think of anybody that makes single stack 12 round .38 Super mags. Here are the .38 Super offerings from the usual suspects, McCormick, Wilson, Tripp.

McCormick http://www.chipmccormickmags.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?search=action&category=38SU

Wilson http://shopwilsoncombat.com/38-Super/products/365/

Tripp https://www.trippresearch.com/store/store_1911.html

They all only offer 10 round .38 Super mags. It doesn't mean somebody doesn't offer a 12 rounder, but the better makers don't.

 

[justin22885]

ive seen someone selling the mags but forgot to look at the price.. i do know para ordnance P18 mags which will fit the P14 frame will hold 17 rounds and theyre fairly inexpensive magazines.. that may actually be the cheaper route but i will definitely be limiting some of the accessories i'll have available to me, like grips.. on the plus side since im getting rid of the grip safety i can contour the back of the pistol however i feel like as i wont be limited to a specific contour or shape of grip anymore

still though, my concern with the doublestack magazines is reliability.. if absolutely necessary i could just make my own mags for any length and capacity i want for a single stack.. i already have a pattern for the single-stack 45acp mags, i can adjust the feed lips and length in the design for an extended 38 super mag and get a form i can bend the body and feed lips around

these dont look like theyd stick out too far, theyre cheap too and 15 rounds.. discontinued though

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/86...rnment-commander-38-super-15-round-steel-blue

 

[justin22885]

well, i decided i'll go with a single-stack because later on i want to design my own doublestack frame and mags specifically for 38 super so i can really slim down the grip and still have a doublestack... also, because where i live gets VERY cold, like -50 a couple years back cold, i want as much space in the trigger guard as i can get and the DA triggers are too far forward.. id end up firing the pistol just trying to stick a gloved finger into the trigger guard... so the lower profile single-action trigger is the route i'll go, meaning i will also need a large spur hammer

i should mention that i shoot a lot with revolvers, so cocking a hammer on the draw is as natural to me as someone else sweeping the slide off their semi auto with their thumb.. so i will carry hammer down with no safeties

so what can you guys tell me about those tiny little red dots i see some people replacing rear sights with? im trying to find more info on them

 

[JTQ]

these dont look like theyd stick out too far, theyre cheap too and 15 rounds.. discontinued though

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/869...und-steel-blue

I suppose it depends on what you mean by "don't think they'd stick out too far". I suspect most 1911 guys would think they stick out too far. In addition, I don't think anybody (OK, somebody must) uses those for anything other than novelty mags. I'm sure ProMag also offers a long stick multi-round single stack mag, but nobody buys those either. They just don't make a good product.

As much as I like the 1911 and I'm not much of a Glock fan, based on what you want on the gun, I'd guess converting a G40 or G41 (since you can get them with a rail and red dot sight from the factory) to .38 Super would be a whole lot easier, cheaper, and probably more reliable than your intended 1911 project. However, if you're just looking for the 1911 challenge, then that's a different question.

G40 https://us.glock.com/products/model/g40gen4mos

G41 https://us.glock.com/products/model/g41gen4

 

[JTQ]

meaning i will also need a large spur hammer

You're probably going to need a GI style grip safety for that hammer, unless you do some significant carving on a beavertail grip safety. It sounds like that's what you probably want to do anyway.

 

[justin22885]

You're probably going to need a GI style grip safety for that hammer, unless you do some significant carving on a beavertail grip safety. It sounds like that's what you probably want to do anyway.

yeah, i have no interest in a beavertail, i was going to just weld a simple GI grip safety and a smooth flat mainspring housing together to create my one-piece backstrap to omit the grip safety and then make my own grips that go around the backstrap of the pistol i can customize for a more contoured grip

 

[WC145]

So, what kind of engineering, machining, and metalworking experience are you bringing to this project?

Pinning or eliminating the grip safety is one thing but I'd reconsider the thumb safety and C1 carry. Because of the grip angle and squared off shape of the rear of the gun, drawing and cocking a 1911 is more awkward than the same move with a revolver. Decocking is more difficult as well. Regardless, unless you're already an accomplished gunsmith with a fair amount of 1911 experience, this sounds like a pretty ambitious project.

 

[justin22885]

hows a background in mechanical engineering involving actually designing some of my own prototypes sound (mostly rifles, one PDW/SMG, and i am working on a couple pistol ideas).. unfortunately my tools to build something from 0% is pretty limited, and id like to build a 1911 from 80%.. ill probably end up building a few...

if i know how to properly machine out the rails, drill out the hammer and sear pin holds while carving out the barrel seat that i can do a little hand fitting of misc parts, thats why this isnt a discussion about the work involved or processes required, this is more about figuring out what all my options are, the 1911 aftermarket is absolutely massive.. this is about going beyond a simple build, but also into the realm of customizing, making something completely unique and personalized to what im looking for

i havent even decided which 80% receiver i'll go with or which slide or barrel im going to use.. id like to find an extended, threaded 38 super barrel with a .356" or .357" barrel so i can use 158 grain projectiles, and since i'll be firing some pretty hot loads out of it (9x23 pressures at least), i need a good, strong, steel frame so i dont think the ares rudius or STI 2011 frames will be suitable

 

[barnbwt]

"where i live gets VERY cold, like -50 a couple years back cold, i want as much space in the trigger guard as i can get and the DA triggers are too far forward.. id end up firing the pistol just trying to stick a gloved finger into the trigger guard"

Do consider a winter trigger

"hows a background in mechanical engineering involving actually designing some of my own prototypes sound"
As an engineer dabbling in gunsmithing, myself...engineering is different from gunsmithing. Bank on your first completed build being generally sucky & frustrating, and plagued by stuff you didn't anticipate coming back to bite you later . Now that I'm on my third build of consequence, things are finally going smoothly for a change (mostly because I'm reusing a ton of parts instead of making them). The good news is that the market for small, low-end 'mini' mills (plenty powerful for medium-tolerance light steel work like gunsmithing) is pretty good right now, seeing as China is busy devaluing its currency (20% off & free shipping at Enco). Getting a lathe has been a quantum leap in productivity for all manner of my gun projects.

FWIW, the CNC Ghost Gunner thing from Distributed Defense is supposedly gonna be able to do 1911 80%'s at some point. For 1000$ or whatever, it's not a bad deal for something that's basically hassle free & works if you can follow instructions. If you just want some cheap inspiration, Sarco has super cheap 1911 frame and slide castings (you wanna see a tough project, check out those slides; slightly more finished than an ingot) from, IIRC, SA/DA Para guns. I've heard the trick with those, is that Para internal parts are pretty hard to come by, so sticking to the standard 1911 stuff is a better bet.

TCB

 

[Casefull]

Probably not a serious effort...sharing daydreams maybe.

 

[justin22885]

i have the tools i need to complete the 1911 from an 80%, so thats not an issue, i hope to get a decent medium size milling machine to convert to CNC a bit later so i can start building from 0%

so who mades a quality threaded .38 super barrel that can handle .357" bullets?

 

[Jim Watson]

Best stick to a standard 1911, maybe a PO or STI double stack clone if you can get the 80% blank. The PO LDA is a complicated action and the many small parts are not available like the wide choices of 1911 knockoffs.

A regular .38 Super barrel will handle .357" bullets as long as the loaded round will chamber freely.

 

[justin22885]

well i contacted a couple barrel manufacturers to see what groove size their barrels typically run, trying to find at least a .356 if not a .357.. i will be using 158 grain bullets for general usage and 180 grain bullets for suppression

as for the complicated small parts.. thats kind of a deal killer, im wanting to avoid over complexity and smaller, easy to lose or break components, so i will stick with single action.. probably single stack as well for reliability, but i could still be convinced to go with a single-action P14 frame if someone can make a good arguement for the reliability of doublestack mags

what are your opinions on bushing vs bushingless barrels?.. one less component to break, but it does make fitting the barrel a bit easier as you only need to work on a cheap little bushing to get the fitment right.. little risk of messing up your slide and barrel

and im also curious why do some people rave about full length guide rods?.. whats the difference?

 

[Jim Watson]

I shoot IDPA and am bound to bushing type barrels. My gunsmith dislikes bull barrels because his fixture will not accommodate them and it about triples the work to fit.

My guy likes FLGRs. I humor him on match guns but not on carry weapons.

 

[justin22885]

so whats the point of full length rods?.. hmm, seems it may alleviate any kind of spring issues?.. dunno, but ill probably use one

 

[Jim Watson]

Some say they guide the spring better and it lasts longer. Some say Mr Browning made one long enough to start with.
They add an ounce or two under the barrel which you might notice in the balance.

 

[justin22885]

meh, if the spring really does last a bit longer then id prefer that, reliability and durability are more important to me than weight since itll be an exclusively open carry pistol, im not even going to try to conceal it.. so a little extra weight here and there if it improves the reliability or durability of the weapon is fine.. so i'll use one.. ive also found a few other good components including extended mag release, extended slide release (still not sure if i'll even use a manual safety or not).. also found a wide spur hammer that should do what i need it to do

so.. these "short" triggers, are there any disadvantages to them?.. looks like you could fit a gloved finger into the trigger guard easier but with a big padded glove and only a short trigger, will there be problems not being able to pull it far enough?

 

[barnbwt]

"im wanting to avoid over complexity and smaller, easy to lose or break components, "
So you're going with the 1911?



TCB

 

[justin22885]

"im wanting to avoid over complexity and smaller, easy to lose or break components, "
So you're going with the 1911?



TCB

take apart a C96 mauser and you'll think the 1911 was the simplest thing on earth.. but for what its worth im considering getting in .380 blowbacks as well for their simplicity.. im really wanting a CZ82

also, 1911 doesnt have too many small parts.. sure some pins, screws, etc but these are easy to replace parts.. the downside i see to the 1911 though is that three piece leaf spring components for the trigger, sear, etc would be a pain to replace without having to buy one and theres certainly no reason to add a bunch with an LDA trigger.. i do believe though DAOs are better with strikers

 

[Nuclear]

DAOs w/ strikers have gotten better, but still don't match a tuned single action.

May I suggest for the sake of your body parts below the muzzle that you retain ONE of the manual safeties, or keep a heavy trigger?

 

[bannockburn]

justin22885

I built a 1911 several years ago as one of my "winter projects". Started from the ground up with an Essex frame and a couple of "How To" manuals.

First thing I learned is to use quality components, even if it costs you a few bucks more. I went initially with a set of surplus parts for the frame. Big mistake. Most of the parts were poorly formed and I ended up scrapping them and buying parts from known manufacturers. The Essex frame I had required a lot of hand fitting, mainly because none of the holes in it were true from one side to the other.

Which leads me to the second thing you'll need: a set of Swiss files which will be invaluable at getting all of the parts to fit together properly and actually work like they're supposed to.

The last thing I would tell you is to go slow and have a lot of patience. Building a 1911 from scratch is not a drop-in parts kind of installation. You have to take your time; do a little work, check the fit, do a little more work, check the fit... and hopefully you'll have a fully functional 1911 when you're done. One good idea I had while building was using a 1911 I already had to see how things actually fit and worked so I could use that with my build.

Good luck with your build and hope to see some photos of it when you're done. This is my "Frankenpistole". I originally built it as a .38 Super then later picked up this TacSol .22 conversion to go with it.

 

[Zerodefect]

I'd recommend SA with the grip safety very sensitized.

Not sure what you mean by hammer down. Hopefully empty camber if that's your choice. That's the only time I've met a 1911 owner that admitted a AD/ND. He was carrying hammer down, for safety LOLz, and bumped the hammer on the corner of a table. BOOM!

Fusion kits:
http://www.fusionfirearms.com/handguns/kits

80% TM:
http://www.tacticalmachining.com/80-products/80-1911/tm-recon-80-1911-frame.html

 

[ATLDave]

I must confess, I find the point of this project very confusing.

If you want a double-stack, hammer-fired semi-auto in DA/SA and in .38 Super, look at a Tanfoglio Limited Pro or one of their Stock series.