sarco P14 castings?

[justin22885]

i want to build a double-stack 1911 and ive been looking at the sarco castings, they have P14 castings with an integral rail that im pretty interested in, and im confident i can complete one of these from a casting with the tools i already have.. but the one i want, the P14 with a rail is only available with a double-action lever style trigger, i like a handgun with a trigger pull thats the same from first shot to last

so i was wondering what it may take to either convert a para trigger group to single action or DAO, or if the frame can be converted to use a double-stack 1911 single action trigger group?.. could i weld up the cutout for the double action trigger and cut out a new slot for the single action trigger?.. to be honest, i dont really care if its a hinged or straight pull trigger, im just not a fan of two different pull weights and an overcomplicaton of the trigger group just to achieve something that is essentially useless, i may be inclined to convert it to DAO if possible and if i can get the DAO pull weight down low enough to be comfortable to use, having a "second strike" capability can have its advantages

 

[JTQ]

The LDA is a different animal altogether, it is not a DA/SA gun. I'm not that familiar with it, but I've read articles by true 1911 experts that have shied away from detail stripping the gun because the inner workings are so complex.

http://para-usa.com/2013/firearms/lda/ldaOfficer_45.php

 

[justin22885]

so how should i make use of the P14 casting then?.. just cut out a new trigger slot for regular doublestack 1911 components?

 

[justin22885]

so what would actually be needed to complete one of these from a casting?

 

[JTQ]

Sorry, I'm not a gunsmith. Your project would be way over my head.

Does it have to be a Sarco P14 frame?

Both STI and Caspian offer double stack frames, and many build project guns with those.

Caspian https://www.caspianarms.com/product-category/double-stack-recon

STI http://stiguns.com/frames/

Brownell's http://www.brownells.com/handgun-parts/frame-parts/frames/index.htm

 

[justin22885]

i want an 80% project, and the P14 is all i can find in a double stack which is good because para mags are cheaper than most other doublestack 1911 mags, 14 rounds of 45acp in a normal grip length and a total pistol height no taller than a glock 21?.. cant argue with that

 

[dogmush]

If your only issue is a changing trigger pull, just buy the P14 casting and slap Para's LDA trigger group in it.

Having a smooth, consistent, double action only pull is kinda the LDA's shtick.

 

[justin22885]

ill have to look in the LDA setup, see if its something id want, id have no issues just welding up the trigger hole and cutting a new one if i decide i do not want the double action... a second strike capability is useful.. then again on a 1911 i can always just recock the hammer manually, so as long as the internals of the frame are similar, i'll just cut a new slot for a trigger.. i also dont like how the para DA triggers are so far forward, i like the short 1911 triggers so i can have some change of fitting a gloves finger into the trigger guard

 

[justin22885]

with the LDA.. the slide is still the same as any other 1911, right?.. and is it true the trigger pull on the LDA is only 3.5lbs?

 

[barnbwt]

so how should i make use of the P14 casting then?.. just cut out a new trigger slot for regular doublestack 1911 components?

That's assuming the interior surfaces that have been casted will be compatible, even after filling the holes. Given your aptitude for design, it might almost be easier to work up parts for a simple SA trigger using the geometry constraints you've been given (especially since actually obtaining Para double-action 1911 parts is impossible). Then again, it might be even easier to turn an MG42 grip housing into a 1911 than the Para frame

I nearly bought an 80% frame for my Browning-Pedersen hybrid project;
-Milling required for safety and mainspring housing fitment
-Milling of concave 'horizontal impact face' (barrel seat ) required
-Milling of rails' height to nominal, as well as slotting the rails to proper width
-Reaming of cast FCG pivot holes required (I'm guessing; the casting is pretty scaly)
-Drilling of remaining FCG pivot holes (sear and hammer, IIRC)

Now, the Sarco castings are even less finished than that;
-It looks like the trigger slot needs to be cut
-Probably some secondary operations on the mag catch hole
-Link crosspin needs drilling, likely the link pocket needs cutting
-Safety/slide stop detent holes and pivot holes need drilling
-'Vertical impact face' the slide bottoms out on likely needs finishing
-Hammer/safety/mainspring housing slot likely needs a lot of work
-Entire rear of frame appears squared-off and will need shaping
-And you should probably checker, polish, and blue the poor thing

Hey, at least the 1911 frame is among the more easily machined designs; basically a two-setup operation with a handful of different endmills/drills. Best of luck should you undertake this rather monumental undertaking (even on a forum as ambitious as weaponsguild, mere 80% builds of 1911s are somewhat uncommon. I think only a few folks have finished the single stack 'true' 1911 castings, and I'm not sure anyone has finished the slide castings).

Don't bother with the slide castings (unless you're completely gutting the thing for a moving breechblock like I am for the Pedersen action) since they're finishing operations are wildly complicated even compared to the frame. They are cheap, though

TCB

 

[justin22885]

ive seen an assembly of a para trigger group in the 1911, from what i could tell most the internals look to be the same, in fact i believe the groove the sides of the single action trigger ride in are also there.. if its not the same, its pretty close, hard to say without seeing one up close, i just wish they had a P14 doublestack single action casting available at sarco, that would make things perfect

also, looking at the operations needed to complete these things, it would appear to be mostly drilling some some details and fitting that can be done with files, its just hard to say if the inside of the frame is compatible with single action parts or not, all the holes seem to line up, and youre right that it would be a PITA to find DA trigger components and theres really no valid reason for me to persue them if i can avoid it so i just need to find out if they can be converted or not

you know what might work?.. they sell the P12 and P13 double stack single action frames, i want a P14 with the underbarrel rail.. what if i bought a P12 single action, P-14 double action, cut the railed dust cover and lower half of the grip off of the P14 and welded it onto the P12?.. it wouldnt be pretty at all, but it should do the job and id be sure to have a single action 1911 with integral rail and compatible with P14 mags

 

[barnbwt]

"looking at the operations needed to complete these things, it would appear to be mostly drilling"
'Fraid you'd be wrong, there; every single last mating surface has to be machined and finished. It's a cobb-rough casting, after all. A lot of metal needs to be removed in the FCG and safety area, the mainspring area, the barrel seat area, to say nothing of the rails. Files could probably do some or even most of it, but it's a really tough row to hoe. It's not possible to overestimate how long it takes to make anything with files

Now, the slides can simply not be done in any way whatsoever with hand tools as far as I can tell. At least not if you are making a 1911 slide.

If you can weld, I'd just weld on a rail to the existing dust cover, and fab up some sheetmetal & weldment to stretch the grip (or just cut off a pinky )

TCB