1911 & CZ75: Dropping the Hammer...Safely

roo_ster · Oct 5, 2004

Howdy:

How do you accomplish a fool/fumble-proof decocking of a 1911 & CZ75?

With my 1911, I am a Condition One kinda guy & this has never come up. My 1911 is either ready to roll (Cond One) or unloaded with the hammer forward.

I plan on purchasing a CZ75 9mm (cheap 9mm Blaser...Mmmmm) in the not-too-distant future. I'll likely still carry C&L, but I want to be able to decock using the best technique possible.

I have decocked my revolvers in the past, but those have a meaty hammer spur.

Thanks in advance for a heads-up.

spacemanspiff · Oct 5, 2004

the last thing you'll catch me doing with my 1911 is decocking it on a live chamber.

OF · Oct 5, 2004

Unload it. Do not decock a loaded single-action pistol. Ever.

After you unload it, grasp the hammer with your support hand, pull the trigger and ease it down.

- Gabe

roo_ster · Oct 5, 2004

Unload it. Do not decock a loaded single-action pistol. Ever.

Well, I don't on my SW1911.

But, a CZ75 was built to operate as both a SA C&L and a traditional DA/SA pistol. In order to operate it as a DA/SA pistol, you have to have a round in the chamber. It got that way, I presume, by:
1. Inserting loaded magazine
2. Manually cycling the slide to strip off the top round in the mag

After you unload it, grasp the hammer with your support hand, pull the trigger and ease it down.

Two-handed operation. I suspected so. Would it help to release the trigger after you have pulled the trigger and gotten some (controled) forward movement of the hammer?

Edward429451 · Oct 5, 2004

a fool/fumble-proof decocking of a 1911

There is no foolproof way. Just a proof of fools way!

Drop the mag, clear the chamber, and dryfire it to the hammer down position. No ingraining of bad habits that way. Make sure you see the round eject of course.

R.H. Lee · Oct 5, 2004

I never drop the hammer on a loaded 1911. However, I do on my CZ75B-very carefully, focusing total attention on what I'm doing. Try practicing with an unloaded pistol until you feel comfortable with the procedure, and do the same way every time. Always make sure the pistol is pointed in a "safe" direction. I always go outdoors, and point toward the ground, away from anything that could be hit by a ricochet. I find myself holding my breath until the hammer is down. :scrutiny:

Marko Kloos · Oct 5, 2004

I own two 1911s at the moment, and I've never decocked either gun on a loaded chamber. It's not only completely unnecessary, it's also an opportunity for a ND.

dfariswheel · Oct 5, 2004

De-cocking the CZ-type pistols is "touchy", more so than the 1911.

The problem with the CZ system is the combination of the DA trigger and the interceptor notch on the hammer.

With the 1911, you hold the hammer, pull the trigger, lower it slightly, release the trigger, and allow the hammer to lower to the "half cock" notch, (actually an interceptor notch).
Then, hold the hammer, pull the trigger and lower it to the full down position.

The CZ system is different, in that after lowering the hammer to the interceptor notch, you cannot pull the trigger to lower it farther, since the DA trigger mechanism comes into play, and tries to push the hammer back to the DA firing position.

With the CZ system, you have to lower the hammer almost all the way down, past the interceptor notch.
This is even more dangerous than the 1911, since if you slip, the interceptor won't catch the hammer.

However, if you want to carry the gun in the DA mode, you have to do this.

My method is to use both hands, lowering the hammer with the gun hand, and putting the thumb on the OTHER hand between the firing pin and the hammer. If the hammer slips, it hits your thumb, not the firing pin.

The other method is to pull the trigger with the gun hand, and lower the hammer by holding it with the other hand. Due to the Commander-type "burr" hammer on most CZ type firearms, this is also touchy due to the lesser amount of gripping area on the hammer.

Best advice is to be careful and PAY ATTENTION.

R.H. Lee · Oct 5, 2004

Best advice is to be careful and PAY ATTENTION.

Or, if you're really uncomfortable with this procedure, get something with a de-cocker, like a Beretta 92FS.

roo_ster · Oct 5, 2004

Never mind...

I can see that I should have never included the 1911 in this inquiriy. Too much baggage for folks to get around before answering the CZ75 SA & DA/SA question. My bad.

For the record, I will swear on a stack of Bibles that I am a bona fide 1911 Condition One carry kinda guy who has neither gone to Condition Two nor kicked any puppies while while using Jeff Cooper's name in vain.

I think I'll head over to the CZ forum to get the detailed, blow-by-blow, manual of arms on the CZ75, to include its use as a DA/SA weapon.

Thank you all for your time.

dfariswheel:

Thanks for the blow-by-blow.

Edited for: "D'oh, somebody posted while I was writing my response."

roo_ster · Oct 5, 2004

Found it!

If you wanted to know how to de-cock a CZ75, here is the link to this FAQ on the CZ Forum:
CZ SA/DA System and Manually Decocking

THR is my default board for most firearms questions, but sometimes you just gotta go to the source.

Majic · Oct 5, 2004

It's not rocket science or requires the finess of a professional ballerina. Just practice with the pistol unloaded and you will quickly get the hang of it. I sometimes wonder how people actually handle certain firearms when they can't perform simple basic fuctions of the design.

OF · Oct 5, 2004

However, if you want to carry the gun in the DA mode, you have to do this.

I read the FAQ link above, and I'm sorry but that's just a load of crap. Grab the hammer and lower it down after pulling the trigger on a loaded chamber? Am I the only one who finds that insane?

Fatal flaw, in my book. Inherently unsafe procedure by design. No thanks.

- Gabe

JohnBT · Oct 5, 2004

And wear your eye and ear protection...just in case.

I point my CZ75B at a fireplace or any of the walls. The exterior walls are 14 inches of solid brick and the plaster should cut down on richo...ricco...bounces.

John

Mikul · Oct 5, 2004

I put my pinky finger between the hammer and the slide and pull the trigger letting the hammer hit my finger. Then I release the trigger and slowly slide my finger out. The only safer way that I can imagine is a piece of wood cut to the width of the hammer and shaped to a wedge. Slip that in the notch instead of your finger.

Terminus · Oct 5, 2004

I accomplished this feat by purchasing a CZ 75BD (decocker model) to carry in DA. I'd rather go Cond. 1 or 3 on a standard CZ 75.

OF · Oct 5, 2004

Designing a pistol that requires you to pull the trigger on a loaded chamber takes the cake. I'm speechless.

- Gabe

roo_ster · Oct 5, 2004

Majic:

I suspected it wasn't rocket science.

I'm a C&L kinda fellow, but I wanted to know how to safely operate the CZ75 in both modes of operation before I rented one & shot it.

I guess I'll practice on my unloaded 1911 (gasp!) before I rent the CZ75 to get the general idea and then spend some time with the rented CZ practicing its manual of arms before sending rounds down range.

Terminus:

So, is C&L carry do-able on ther CZ75BD or is a decocker-only?

GRD:

So let me guess...not a big fan of the CZ75 design?

Terminus · Oct 5, 2004

jfruser,

The BD model is not C&L-able...your first shot has to be DA.

OF · Oct 5, 2004

So let me guess...not a big fan of the CZ75 design?

I don't know anything about the guns except what this thread has brought to light. I know plenty of people love 'em to death. I'd stick with the 'D' version or condition 1 if it was me, though...

- Gabe

Mulliga · Oct 5, 2004

Why on earth would you ever need to decock a CZ-75?

That said, decocking a CZ can be accomplished somewhat safely

. Just manually insert your left thumb between the hammer and the firing pin and pull the trigger, holding the hammer with your right thumb, as well. Slowly remove your left thumb while easing the hammer forward with your right thumb. After you pass the half-cock notch, even if your thumb slips, the hammer (probably) won't strike the firing pin hard enough to fire the gun. After you pass the half-cock notch, also allow the trigger to go forward so the firing pin block is reset.

As long as you point the gun in a safe direction, even if you do have an AD, your hands might get royally screwed up, but the rest of you will be okay.

OF · Oct 5, 2004

even if you do have an AD, your hands might get royally screwed up, but the rest of you will be okay.

Well, if that's all, then have at it!

- Gabe

Terminus · Oct 5, 2004

Just in case you didn't know, there is a CZ 75B SA only model available if you don't want to monkey around with a decocker model or manually decocking a standard model. Great trigger, too.

outofbattery · Oct 5, 2004

My HK4's instruction manual says that the proper way to decock it is to " improperly , but not incorrectly " put the safety on and pull the trigger

CZ52GUY · Oct 5, 2004

I'm with Gabe on this one...

...I love my CZ-75B, but I treat it as a SA piece. I compete with it Cocked and Locked and have never found a good reason to use the DA capability. Hammer forward on a loaded pipe? I can't for the life of me think of a reason why I'd want to or need to do that.

Stay safe,

CZ52'

1911 & CZ75: Dropping the Hammer...Safely

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