1911...decisions...decisions. :)

[Unbound1990]

Hello all, first post up here. I have been reading multiple forums and this one ended up being my favorite, so I joined. I am currently a novice to handguns since I am still currently only 20 years old. But, that will change on the 19th of this month, which I am planning on buying my first handgun. I would just appreciate some input into my decisions and lack thereof.
Now first off I will be purchasing a 1911, glocks are cute but they're just not for me. Later on down the line I will acquire a .357 revolver ( either a 686 or a gp-100) as well as an Xdm 45. But I am staying with the beautiful beast of a gun for my first purchase. I have narrowed the manufacturers down to Smith and Wesson and Springfield Armory. I like SA due to sticking to J.M.B's original design (for the most part) but on the other hand I like the aesthetics of the S&W, they just look "modern" and quite attractive, in a strange way. Reliability will be an issue, due to the fact that this will be a daily carry firearm. I have heard that they are very close to the same performance and reliabilty wise. And in specific I am referring to the "mil-spec" and"loaded" models from SA, and the "enhanced" from S&W. If I get the S&W then later I will purchase a mil spec and customize it how I see fit. Or if I get the SA first then I will just splurge for the loaded model. So any input for that will be appreciated.
Next, I will be getting my concealed carry permit asap. But during the wait time I was planning on OC doing the "virginia tuck" method of carry.... which I have not heard anything bad about here, in Virginia (obviously). So a good IWB leather holster recommendation would be appreciated.Also since it will be OC for a while I was hoping for one with good retention, thumb break or something along those lines. As well as a wear inhibiting liner, 1911s are too pretty to have a ton of holster wear IMO. As well as recommendations on personal defense rounds such as hollow points or any expansion rounds that work in your particular firearm. .45 acp. No 9mm for me.
Lastly any input in the world of 1911s would be greatly appreciated, I love the platform, they're gorgeous, and I want to learn as much as I possibly can, and hopefully can one day be a professional smith, if time and money allows.
Don't bash me too hard guys. Thanks in advance.

 

[RockyMtnTactical]

SA makes a great gun for the money.

 

[FullEffect1911]

I choose Springfield for my most recent 1911 purchase (range officer). I think they offer the best characteristics one could want if you are willing to learn a few things about them. 99% of problems associated with 1911 pistols can be user fixed in my opinion.

1911's require good magazines and a good extractor. I have a strong preference for Colt's 7 round hybrid feed lip design with extra power magazine springs and I am actually quite partial to EGW's heavy duty series 70 extractor. Other top end extractors work just fine as well.

My problem with the S&W is if you have a bum extractor you will need to send it back to smith. I've owned a S&W 1911 before and it worked great, however I like the idea that I can fix my own pistols with parts that I can order from anywhere. That is completely personal preference however.

Both are very good, if you lack mechanical aptitude or don't care to tinker the S&W may be a better choice. If you like to get something set up just right the Springfield may be a better choice.

Check out UBG holsters as well, I feel his work is on par with anyone. I don't think he has retention straps, but they aren't necessary for retention on a well made holster.
http://www.ubgholsters.com/

 

[2wheels]

The 1911 is my favorite handgun, hands down. I like Colts and Springfields, though there are a zillion 1911 manufacturers out there. My Colt New Agent is a very well built handgun, I've got zero complaints about it, and it's been extremely reliable. My next 1911 will be a Springfield, I want one with a rail and I prefer the Springer to Colts new railed 1911.

Can't really help you with holsters, I like IWB but mine are leather open top, no retention. As for holster wear... You need to get over that with a carry gun, if you're carrying it daily it's going to show at least a little wear after a while.

I carry 230 grain Remington Golden Sabers in my 1911s, 230 grain because I prefer a heavier round in all my carry guns, and Golden Sabers simply because they feed reliably and they're the easiest to find in my area (Northern VA).

 

[ichiban]

It sounds like you have done your homework and have narrowed the field to a couple of very fine choices. I think either one would make a great choice. I would like to throw a couple of things out for your consideration if you are going to carry this gun.

1.) Consider a commander length. The slightly shorter barrel makes it easier to conceal and a more comfortable to carry (I find a 5" barrel hit the seat before I do and drives the butt of the gun into my ribs.) I also prefer the balance of the commander as well. The shorter sight radius does not impact my accuracy.
2.) Consider a bobtail. A lot of people will say that's not a good choice for your first 1911 but it makes CCW much easier. It will print less and it is more comfortable. Well worth the extra money IMHO. You can also do it later but it is a bigger hassle.
3.) Front strap checkering/texturing. A good grip is essential for a 1911. In a self defense situation you are going to have a lot going on so every little bit helps. If you hands are wet (water, mud, or blood) your grip will be less than ideal. I would also stay away from smooth grips on a carry gun.

Just some food for thought and a lot of it is personal preference.

Welcome to the forum and the wonderful (and addictive) world of 1911s.

 

[Unbound1990]

RockyMtnTactical what is the SS bobtail that u have in your picture? Is that a custom that you had done? Or is it a Cbob? (Kinda a 1 in the same answer)

I know the EE on the S&W would be a aftermarket problem and adjustment issue if the need came around. I had no issue with their EEs, but as you said it would require a smith. On the other hand I was under the impression that internal extractors also need tinkering to work right in some cases, or am I wrong? I also figured an IWB with extra retention just seemed silly, but figured I would see what comes up.

Ichiban, I have thought about a bobtailed commander, but just about the only way I would go that route would be a DW CBOB. Thus it wont happen for a while, due to the cost. I also have two gripes about the SA loaders...well make it three....the ambi safety, the 2 piece alan wrench guide rod, and the lack of front strap checkering. You would think they'd throw in the checkering for the pric but I guess not. But all that can be switched or added at a later date after a few hundred rounds is through the firearm. Also I was thinking a set of wrap around finger groove inserts should serve as a fine substitute of checkering.

Thank you for the responses and the welcome to THR.

 

[Zerodefect]

Sounds like you've done your homework. Nothing wrong with your choices.

You sound pretty serious about CCWing a 1911 so I'd recommend stepping up to a Dan Wesson Heritage, Valor, CCO, or Vbob.

Don't rule out Les Baer either. The pistol itsself is the cheapest part of the CCW lifestyle, so don't hold back if you see something you really like.

Crossbreed makes the best IWB holster, especially for Glocks and 1911's.

Don't worry about holster wear, even if you line an oversized holster with kittens, it'll still wear your 1911's finish.

Unlike Glock and S&W, 1911 finishes are very weak. But you can refinish your pistol for reasonable prices in much stronger finishes. (Maybe that's why most companys don't bother with high end finishes on factory 1911's) Melonite is very strong. Severns Hardhat is the best melonite type finish. ION Bond is ok as well.

Let us know how the OC works out. LOL.

 

[Sauer Grapes]

I'm not a fan of the ambi safety either and really could care less about the front strap being stippled.
Your on the right track, either company has some nice choices.

 

[RockyMtnTactical]

Unbound1990, It's a CBOB.

 

[FullEffect1911]

On the other hand I was under the impression that internal extractors also need tinkering to work right in some cases, or am I wrong?

My standard procedure on a new non custom 1911 is to ditch the OEM internal extractor and buy an aftermarket one. Shape it correctly, tension it and check for function with dummy rounds and no recoil spring installed. After that I just check for tension every once in a while, but really it won't need to be set again for a long time or at all. Again this is with a good extractor that is made from good materials.

S&W has some new 1911's out this year that have a more robust external extractor design (formerly only found on their PC guns) and have done away with the swartz safety. This is all in their "E" series. I would strongly lean towards that if I were going S&W.

http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Category4_750001_750051_770151_-1_757752_757751_image

 

[451 Detonics]

If I were to start carrying a 1911 again (it has been years since I have done so) I would want high capacity teamed up with a Commander length slide. I have been considering building one for a couple years now in .38 Super but haven't talked myself into it yet. However if you want a gun ready to go for carry then the STI Tactical 4.15 in 45 would make an excellent set-up for CCW. 12 rounds of .45 is a lot of persuasion!

http://www.stiguns.com/guns/Tactical4.15/Tactical415.php

 

[TonyAngel]

I'll second the recommendation to check out the STI line of products, although I'm a fan of their single stack models.

 

[2wheels]

I've got nothing against having a dozen rounds of .45ACP on tap, but a double stack grip just ruins the 1911 for me. That perfect slim grip is a big part of why I love carrying and shooting 1911s, double stack .45s just don't fit me.

 

[Unbound1990]

In response to the extractor on S&W. I wouldn't be purchasing the older SW1911, the only ones im interested in are the "E" series (enhanced) with the fish scale serrations and larger extractor, I haven't heard many good things about the older models, but the new E series seems to have worked out the few bugs.
I really don't like the double stack high capacity 1911s. The reason being the grip size, I don't have small hands, nor do I have big hands. The slim single stack fits my hands perfect and allows my natural grip set my finger correctly on the trigger without too much focus solely on that.
As for Les Baer, wilson, and STI....they're a little out of my price range from what I have seen. I can really only afford up to $1000, which is kinda pushing it. But I understand and accept that in the 1911 world price is not really an option. $400 wont get you much IMO. But I am trying to keep the price under a grand. Thus the SA and S&W choices.

Zerodefect, I would love to have a kitten lined holster...but think the humane society would give me some trouble. Lol. I know the finish isn't that hard and will most likely get it refinished later, but for now I would like to keep the wear to a minimal, I like my girls very pretty and not beat up, and I treat guns like women. I know what they can do in my hands but in public I like them to be visually pleasing. Lol.

Thanks again or the info and keep it coming.

 

[451 Detonics]

I've got nothing against having a dozen rounds of .45ACP on tap, but a double stack grip just ruins the 1911 for me. That perfect slim grip is a big part of why I love carrying and shooting 1911s, double stack .45s just don't fit me.

If your experience with 12 round double stacks has been with Para's I agree...too fat but the STI is much better feeling in the hand.

 

[Dunedain]

Dan Wessons are said to be excellent quality without being too expensive, and the frames and slides are made in the U.S., if I recall correctly.

 

[2wheels]

If your experience with 12 round double stacks has been with Para's I agree...too fat but the STI is much better feeling in the hand.

Definitely, Paras are fat. First time I ever picked one up, I set it right back down. My hands are on the small side, and that grip was ridiculously wide.

I've never handled an STI double stack, maybe I'll try and handle one at the next gunshow I go to. But with my small hands, I think I'll always be a single stack man with 1911s.

 

[cpirtle]

Hard to go wrong with either choice but if you're looking for reliability out of the box I think Smith has the edge. I'm not knocking Springfield either but they have been known to allow a fair amount of dud's to ship. I had an EMP that was a fine gun but I just never warmed up to it.

If you can swing the extra loot you can get the Pro Series SW1911 which has the larger Performance Center extractor which are proving to be pretty much bullet proof. I just bought one of the Pro Series 9mm's because I have about 10k rounds of ammo and very few 9mm's left to shoot them out of.

I have a couple of Dan Wesson's and they are one of the finest 1911's made today - my top choice if you have the funds. Also, don't rule out Colt once you start getting closer to the grand mark, I think they are making a better gun than Springfield and very few retain value like a Colt.

 

[Unbound1990]

I would love to have a colt 1911 or 1991 model. But they're so hard to find in my area, springfield and smiths are hard to find as well. When they come in they generally fly off the shelves. So when the next show comes around I plan on keeping am eye out for a nice used colt.

 

[DRYHUMOR]

There are a lot of possibilities in your budget range. Check out the Colt WW1 Repro's.

A pistol like that would be a good starter, and even a good pistol to customize. I think one would look pretty cool with the rollmarks on it customized.

If you are looking at SA 1911's, there are quite a few that are used/not abused. Almost all of them new are within your budget. I keep hearing pretty decent stuff about the Range Officer model.

Dan Wessons can be had within your budget as well, used. Even new, maybe another 400 to 500 bucks more.

I like the E series pistols also. I just don't like the "E" on the grips. They would look a lot better with just the fish scales on them.

Don't be afraid of wear and idiot scratches, they are items you can use to your advantage to negotiate a better price. I would recommend handling as many new guns as you can while paying attention to what looks normal, from make to make. Then when you come across a used pistol you can better pick up on any problems.

When buying new though, you get the warranty

 

[Snowdog]

I don't know about you, but I fully intend to find one of those Mythbusters .45acp 1911s. They have 2000 pounds of energy at the muzzle.

Seriously though, the 1911 is just a bit more complex than your typical Glock and such, but doesn't really take much effort to become familiar with. I've settled with Rangers for just about all my 9mm, .40 S&W and .45acp chambered pistols as they are relatively inexpensive (compared to "premium" defensive JHPs) and tend to work great.

I remember researching for my first pistol... but I didn't have the benefit of the internet back then (early 90's). Back then, just about all knowledge came from the gun-rags that were anything but impartial and the dubiously-aped advice from folks at the gun shops. How we ever gleaned knowledge without the internet back then, I do not know... or care to remember.

 

[G27RR]

I also have two gripes about the SA loaders...well make it three....the ambi safety, the 2 piece alan wrench guide rod, and the lack of front strap checkering.

The Range Officer solves 2 out of 3 of your gripes. The front strap isn't as slick as I thought it would be on mine. I swapped out the sights to fit my taste in a carry pistol, Dawson tritium front and Harrison fixed rear. If the factory rear sight had been dehorned, I may have kept it.

 

[EddieNFL]

On the other hand I was under the impression that internal extractors also need tinkering to work right in some cases, or am I wrong?

Like any other part, they have to be installed correctly. It's a pretty simple process. I sent instructions to Kimber a few years ago, but they must have gotten lost in cyberspace.

 

[EddieNFL]

...glocks are cute but they're just not for me.

I've heard Glocks called simple, reliable, utilitarian, user friendly, dishwasher safe, maintenance free, but never cute.

 

[Unbound1990]

G27RR: That is a very fine piece you have. Any model with target sights is not looking too great to me though, simply due to the fact that they will be swapped to fixed night sights, which come stock on some of the models I am looking at. But I wish SA had a SS loaded with night sights, can't seem to find one so I guess they just market it with white dot on SS and night/white on parkerized. Which I don't mind the parkerized coat but I don't love it either.

EddieNFL: my friend is a glock freak, I don't really like them all that much. Thus I call them cute and it bugs the living mess out of him. but I will say that glock got the plastic gun right, simple, versatile, and durable. But hellishly ugly IMO. I prefer the XDM as a polymer pistol. Also, alot of stuff gets lost in cyberspace, maybe some 65 year old lady who hates guns intercepted it and deleted it, try again? Lol