1911 extractor too tight?

[redneck]

I just picked up a tisas B9R with the intention of it being a project gun. I have built one government sized 1911 from parts in .45 already and had a good time working on that. It is a basically a GI model but I radiused the frame and put a beavertail grip safety on it before fitting everything. It feeds hollowpoints and about anything I have tried to feed it after getting good mags and tweaking a few things.

The new gun, my intentions are to try my hand at bobtailing and checkering the frame and then probably changing the sights and tweaking whatever else needs it. I don't know that it will ever become a carry gun, but I would like it to be able to feed JHP. Basically I want to build a carry gun, whether it ever ends up being one or not.

Out of the box without shooting it, it feeds 115 grain FMJ 100% (2 mags worth by hand, cycled slow or fast). It will not even think about feeding 124 grain federal punch either slingshot, or slow feed. They nose dive and get solidly caught on the bottom edge of the feed ramp.

I have researched the usual culprits on that, but I am noticing something I haven't encountered before. The breech face is shaving a significant amount of brass on the side opposite the extractor hook. Is this a sign the extractor is too tight? What else could cause this?

I have a kuhnhausen 1911 shop manual stashed here somewhere I need to dig out. Is it still mostly relevant to a gun with a ramped barrel? Is there a better reference to use on these guns?

 

[trackskippy]

I picked up a used "Service" model 1911 a little while back, and it was having a lot of troubles feeding, and a lot of that was nose diving into the ramp. I suspected the extractor as well and I was guessing the previous owner might have been dropping a round into the chamber and was dropping the slide on it, instead of feeding it from the mag. My guess anyway. Tension seems to have been the issue, and mine seems to have needed more, rather than less.

I ended up replacing the extractor with a new one, and with some trial and error tuning, it seems to have sorted it out, for the most part. Its seems to be running OK now.

I also have a Tisas "Army" model in 9mm, and bought it new, and for the most part, its been fine right out of the box. Not 100%, but pretty close. It has the same sort of ramped barrel as the Service.

I do think mags are also some of the problem here too. I have a bunch of MecGar mags, and the standard 9 round 9mm mags are kind of hit or miss. Some work OK, while others seem to have occasional double feeds, stovepipes, and sometimes puke loaded rounds out while the gun cycles. I number my mags, but it doesnt seem to be any one mag in general, and kind of random, so I guess all of them are suspect for that matter.

I did just recently pick up three of MecGar's 10 round "match" mags on the recommendation of someone here, and they are built a bit differently than the standard mags, and I havent had a stoppage or problem with three different guns using them, and Ive got around 400 rounds through the three of them now. If I had to do it over, Id just buy those. They are only a buck or so more per mag price wise too.

 

[Bazoo]

You can always radius that sharp edge opposite the extractor. As well as polish the breech face area in general with 600-800 grit paper.

 

[redneck]

Thanks guys, I am suspect of the mags. They just don't feel quite right when you load them. I will probably order some ed brown or other reputable mags to try tuning it with.

I will probably polish the breech face and extractor as well. It just seems like there is a lot of brass collected there for only having 25 rounds or so cycled.

Overall I am very impressed with this gun right out of the box. The trigger is not bad at all, the slide to frame fit has almost no play and everything runs smooth. I wanted a project gun and this was cheaper than buying parts, but I honestly could be happy with it right out of the box if it fed some sort of jhp's decently.

 

[Steve in Allentown]

I will probably order some ed brown or other reputable mags to try tuning it with.

I suggest buying one example of each manufacturer's magazines to test them before you empty the piggy bank buying whatever seems to be the most popular one at the moment. Test them all, get more of the one that works the best, and sell the rest.

@trackskippy referenced my post concerning the Mec-Gar 10 round 9mm mags.

Here's a link to that post. https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...m-magazine-mgcgov910afc.915495/#post-12543970

 

[redneck]

I suggest buying one example of each manufacturer's magazines to test them before you empty the piggy bank buying whatever seems to be the most popular one at the moment. Test them all, get more of the one that works the best, and sell the rest.

@trackskippy referenced my post concerning the Mec-Gar 10 round 9mm mags.

Here's a link to that post. https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...m-magazine-mgcgov910afc.915495/#post-12543970

I have a mix of chip mcormick power mags and wilson combat for my .45. I am not tied to any brand, but will buy some mags that are known quality the next time I order parts from somewhere. Shipping will cost almost as much as mags if I don't try to consolidate orders and get what is available at the time. The ed brown store had a better selection in stock when I was looking at mainspring housings than either brownells or midway is the only reason I mentioned them.

 

[cfullgraf]

Ithis?

I have a kuhnhausen 1911 shop manual stashed here somewhere I need to dig out. Is it still mostly relevant to a gun with a ramped barrel? Is there a better reference to use on these guns?

The Kuhnhausen 1911 books are the best info for 1911's but they are geared a bit more towards 45 ACP.

The extractor needs to hold the case in place but not be so tight that it is difficult for the case to get under the extractor. Extractors are inexpensive enough that a couple can be bought for experimentation.

The main issue with a non-ramped barrel is the intersection between the barrel and the frame should favor the frame so that the bullet does not get held up with a step onto the barrel from the frame interface. This should not be an issue with a ramped barrel.

If the cartridge is nose diving into the ramp, a different magazine or magazine follower may be in order. I cannot say that I have ever had trouble feeding cartridges for a 38 Super or 9x19 1911 pistol.

 

[Otto]

Before you polish, remove any metal or replace parts…try different mags in standard capacities. Tisas sources their mags from Checkmate, so I’d go with another brand like Metalform or Tripp. I get my mags from Greg Cote.

 

[trackskippy]

I have a mix of chip mcormick power mags and wilson combat for my .45. I am not tied to any brand, but will buy some mags that are known quality the next time I order parts from somewhere. Shipping will cost almost as much as mags if I don't try to consolidate orders and get what is available at the time. The ed brown store had a better selection in stock when I was looking at mainspring housings than either brownells or midway is the only reason I mentioned them.

Heres a couple of places that usually have a good selection and at reasonable prices, at least compared to a lot of the others. Just search 9mm 1911 and you should get a decent list of choices.

https://gregcotellc.com/cart/index.php

https://gunmagwarehouse.com/

 

[Steve in Allentown]

. . . will buy some mags that are known quality . . .

What does "known quality" mean? Strongest tubes, thickest metal, best feeding, nicest finishing, most units sold, most expensive, etc?

Over the past 50 years I have used all the big name and small name companies's magazines and thought I had everything sorted out in terms of which were the best. A couple of years ago, having nothing better to do, I decided to get serious about evaluating which mag from the dozen or so manufacturers I had on hand actually fed the best across the widest array of ammo types and 1911 configurations on my bench. I kept careful notes and put 5,000 rounds through the pistols over the course of three days. By the third day my loading thumb hurt and I was not having any fun.

In the end, one magazine model clearly stood out as being the very best in terms of feeding. It would feed when others choked and fed without any clunkiness or hesitation in 5", 4 1/4", or 3.5" 1911s regardless of bullet type (FMJ, JHP, HG68 reloads). It was not a McCormick, Wilson, or Tripp mag. All ammo and pistols were .45s.

My takeaway is that we all have preconceived notions of what is the best but without actually doing head-to-head, hands-on testing we really don't know which is the best for a specific pistol/ammo combination.

Shipping will cost almost as much as mags if I don't try to consolidate orders and get what is available at the time. The ed brown store had a better selection in stock . . .

I agree. Shipping costs are outrageous and often will be more than the cost of the item especially if you only buy a single piece. You will have to weigh that cost against having the best feeding magazine as determined by your live-fire range testing.

Ed Brown mags are made by CheckMate. Thunder Mountain has the best prices, fastest shipping, and lowest shipping cost of any of the businesses from which I purchase magazines. Unfortunately, Mike only offers one 9mm CheckMate model currently but it may very well be the best one for your pistol. I have no experience with it but the .45 version is my go-to mag for all of my 1911s.

 

[Col. Harrumph]

Tisas sources their mags from Checkmate....

I can't remember where I read this on THR, but Checkmate supplied DoD with good mags back when.

 

[redneck]

What does "known quality" mean? Strongest tubes, thickest metal, best feeding, nicest finishing, most units sold, most expensive, etc?

...

When you are stuck with buying online sight unseen what are you left with besides reading specs and going by brand reputation? If it truly is such a gamble then ordering from a company with good specs and a reputation for standing behind their products is about all a guy can do.

 

[trackskippy]

And even if you buy whats said to be best, theres really no guarantee its going to work in your gun, or all of your guns. About all you can do is, spend your money, and see what happens.

Over the years, Ive owned around 40 or so 45 caliber 1911's of various makes, and the only mags that have actually worked pretty much without issue in "all" of my guns, have been a lot of USGI surplus 7 round mags I bought a bunch of back in the early 90's. Even the high dollar Wilsons that everyone swears by, havent done that. Some seem to be a bit better than others, but theres really no way to know if they will work in your gun untill you try and vet them.

These 9mm 1911's Ive picked up in the last year or so, a Colt Commander, and a couple of the Tisas GM's, are the first Ive had, and the Tisas, with their ramped barrels, seem to be a bit more picky/finicky than the Colt, with its more traditional 1911 style barrel.

I bought the MecGar mags as they were the mags that came with the Colt when I got it, and seemed to work fine with it, as did the number of others I bought to use with it.

The first Tisas I got came with one too, but that gun had issues, which the extractor did seem to be main problem, but the same mags the Colt runs without issue, dont seem to want to run as reliably in the Tisas, and actually either Tisas, without some random and occasional problems. The exception there being, the 10 round MecGars that Steve posted up and reviewed, which seem to work great so far, in all three of my guns.

Those 10 round mags are built a bit differently than the others too and seem to be a better design, which is why I think they do.

But, as with anything, the only way Im going to know, is keep shooting all of them, in all my guns, and see how it goes. I no longer carry 1911's these days, and they are now mostly just range toys and guns I shoot to keep up with the platform and stay familiar with. If I was to go back to carrying my old Colt Commander in 45, the Wilsons would be my choice there, as it always seemed to like them. If I were to carry my Colt Commander in 9mm, at this point, it would likely be these 10 round MecGars.

Im liking the Tisas guns, but at this point, I wouldnt trust one to carry it, 9mm or 45 (I have a Tisas Commander in 45). They need a lot more rounds through them and likely some tweaking before that would happen.

 

[Skylerbone]

When you are stuck with buying online sight unseen what are you left with besides reading specs and going by brand reputation? If it truly is such a gamble then ordering from a company with good specs and a reputation for standing behind their products is about all a guy can do.

I think what’s meant is that such terminology has no concrete application here. I tend to throw money at a good many problems but it may not be the most expensive or the the one with “improved” xyz that solves an individual’s issue, thus @Steve in Allentown ’s suggestion to test brands before committing to any of the “known quality” ones. That’s different things to different people anyway and building a good quality magazine won’t always mask the shortcomings of a specific pistol.

On a side note, though not at all off topic; when Steve replies, I take note. Of the active THR members familiar with the 1911 he easily makes my top 5 for trusted sources, being far more knowledgeable than I dare ever hope to be.

 

[redneck]

I think what’s meant is that such terminology has no concrete application here. I tend to throw money at a good many problems but it may not be the most expensive or the the one with “improved” xyz that solves an individual’s issue, thus @Steve in Allentown ’s suggestion to test brands before committing to any of the “known quality” ones. That’s different things to different people anyway and building a good quality magazine won’t always mask the shortcomings of a specific pistol.

On a side note, though not at all off topic; when Steve replies, I take note. Of the active THR members familiar with the 1911 he easily makes my top 5 for trusted sources, being far more knowledgeable than I dare ever hope to be.

I definitely appreciate the help and the knowledge but this thread was never meant to be about magazines and that is literally all anyone wants to talk about.

I made an offhand comment about Ed Brown magazines because I will probably be ordering other parts from that company. If I end up ordering from midway, brownells or find something at my local store I will try something else. Everyone wants to beat the dead horse of trying all types of magazine and I literally already said I had no tie to any brand. My only concern is that its a company that I trust to make consistent mags so when I find one that works I can get more of the same.

In the mean time I have an extractor that is so tight it seems to be forcing the shell casing across the breach face too far and leaving actual shavings of brass in the gun. I can take some tension off, I can deburr the breech face, I can leave it like it is. If anyone has encountered this and fixed it, or knows of a good reference book for 1911's with ramped barrels it would be awesome to hear about it.

 

[trackskippy]

With the gun I was having trouble with, the extractor needed to be tightened to get a better result. I replaced it, as the hook looked a little messed up, and the new extractor was tuned to what Id tuned the one that came with the gun and seemed to have it working.

I picked up one of the tuning jigs, just so I had something that was more predictable/repeatable, than just trying to tune it hit or miss with the slide.

Once I got it to where it seemed it was working, the round under the claw, didnt seem to nose dive at all and was hitting the ramp higher with a more upward angle, and with a better trajectory towards the chamber.

And I do think the mags are a major part of this, and even though Im using mags all from the same maker, the one design is most definitely a big difference in how the guns work compared to the other. The 10 round mags with the spacer in the front of the mag, with a small ramp at the top, have been 100% in all three 9mm 1911's I have, in the 300 or so rounds Ive put through them so far.

 

[Steve in Allentown]

The 10 round mags with the spacer in the front of the mag, with a small ramp at the top, have been 100% in all three 9mm 1911's I have, in the 300 or so rounds Ive put through them so far.

1911 - Mec-Gar 10 round 9mm magazine MGCGOV910AFC

 

[herrwalther]

While you are playing around with magazines, it still wouldn't hurt to properly tune your extractor. This is probably the best video I have found to do so. I have used this technique at a range to do 5 minute repairs on 1911s malfunctioning right next to me, because I am the kind of guy that keeps a punch set in my range bag.



As far as magazines go, I tend to go with either Wilson 47D mags or Ed Brown magazines. Depending on what I can find a better price on. Out of a few different 1911s, I haven't had any issues with either brand. There are a lot of unmarked 1911 magazines out there that have questionable reliability.

 

[Steve in Allentown]

. . . it still wouldn't hurt to properly tune your extractor.

Jason is an outstanding 1911 'smith and really nice guy. Lest anyone get the wrong impression, what he shows in the video is an extractor that he has already correctly fit to the pistol being bent to adjust tension. There is more to getting an extractor to run right than just bending it to add tension. Nobody should expect to be able to drop any new extractor into a 1911 and have it run with 100% reliability. For more than you ever wanted to know about how to correctly fit an extractor go to this link: https://www.1911forum.com/threads/steve-in-allentown-extractor-fitting.829865/

As far as magazines go, I tend to go with either Wilson 47D mags or Ed Brown magazines.

I'm sure you already know this but for those who don't CheckMate makes Ed Brown magazines.

 

[herrwalther]

I'm sure you already know this but for those who don't CheckMate makes Ed Brown magazines.

Indeed. It is much easier to search for Ed Brown on sites like Midway. Knowing all the names they are sold under really does help finding quality mags. I've never had to do much more than adjust extractor tension on a 1911 and I am willing to bet Tisas did an okay job with theirs. But never know when it would be helpful.