1911 Slide Catch Problem

[citizenconn]

I just picked up a used custom 1911 today. When I got it home I noticed the slide catch will not drop down and let the slide go forward when you pull the slide back with no mag in the gun.

It locks back fine with an 8 round Wilson Combat mag in the gun. And with it locked back with no mag I can pull the mag catch down with my thumb and it slingshots all the way forward fine.

I haven't had it apart but it looks to have a full length guide rod. Everything else seems to work fine except for the slide catch. I'm only a few months into owning 1911s so I'm not familiar enough with their design to diagnose what the problem would be. Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Steve762us]

Check the small tube that is staked to left side of frame, above the grip panel.

It should have spring loaded detents at both ends. The aft detent gives 'latching' effect to thumb safety movement.
The forward detent should motivate the slide release to move downward, absent of any other factor (such as
the follower of an empty magazine, trying to push the slide release upward.

Possible causes might be the forward detent missing, or the spring damaged/missing/rusted in place, or the slide release has been
mis-fitted...also check the tube is rigidly staked in place, not wobbly/loose.

 

[JTQ]

Is there a shock buffer in the gun? Sometimes those will prevent sling-shotting.


Edit to add: A shock buff will look like one of these https://shopwilsoncombat.com/SHOK-BUFF-RECOIL-BUFFERS-1911-PACKAGE-OF-6/productinfo/2B/

 

[Steve762us]

The shok buff won't cause the slide release to lock slide back, when there's no mag in the grip.

 

[JTQ]

The shok buff won't cause the slide release to lock slide back, when there's no mag in the grip.

The OP said this is the issue.

... the slide catch will not drop down and let the slide go forward when you pull the slide back with no mag in the gun.

In other words, he can't sling-shot the gun, but he can drop the slide by using the slide stop. This is a common issue with a shock-buff, that often will limit slide travel.

Of course it is possible I'm not understanding the OP's post, and I need clarification.

 

[gwpercle]

Try a good field strip and serious cleaning with spray cleaner to dislodge grit and grime in the area where the spring , plunger , tube and slide stop are . Then some spray lube ... make sure everything is clean and lubed and check for a buffer ...that might be interferring .
My instructer , back in dark ages , used the slide release to release the slide on a loaded magazine ...
He told us this was how the 1911 was designed to operate ... you released the slide by pulling down on the slide release latch ... no such thing as "Sling shotting" ... try releasing the slide with the slide release latch ...
that might solve all your problems .
In the 1960's when a D.I. showed you how to do something ... it was ...Sir , Yes Sir ...you didn't question his instruction . I have always dropped the slide with the latch ... no slingshot ... I'm not going to tell no Army DI he's wrong ...they have been known to come back from the dead and set you straight !
Gary

 

[mljdeckard]

Custom or....been ....messed with?

 

[Steve762us]

The OP said this is the issue.

In other words, he can't sling-shot the gun, but he can drop the slide by using the slide stop.
This is a common issue with a shock-buff, that often will limit slide travel.

Of course it is possible I'm not understanding the OP's post, and I need clarification.

Yah, I had to re-read it a couple of times--my first impression was "this is contradictory".
After re-reading, I got that he was seeing the slide stop "automatically" lock the slide open,
when slide was pulled back, with no magazine in the pistol. That's what I was referring to,
as not symptomatic of a too-thick shock buffer

The shock buff is a great tip, tho, if the slide won't come back far enough to let the slide stop enter the slide's notch
(or far enough back, to eject an unfired round from ejection port!). Might even see similar effects from some of the
aftermarket "upgrade" recoil springs, that do more to 'upgrade' the seller's bank account than anything else.

 

[9mmepiphany]

After re-reading, I got that he was seeing the slide stop "automatically" lock the slide open,
when slide was pulled back, with no magazine in the pistol.

That is not what the OP posted.

You're reading the second paragraph incorrectly. The second sentence builds on the first sentence.

The slide stop locks the slide back when he has a magazine inserted

 

[edwardware]

And with it locked back with no mag I can pull the mag catch down with my thumb and it slingshots all the way forward fine.

The slide should positively push the lock down when drawn all the way back to the rear of its travel. If it doesn't, it's probably not traveling far enough; look for some gimmick like a shockbuff.

And don't drop the slide in an empty chamber, you'll batter the sear and hooks.

 

[IlikeSA]

I agree with some of the others posting here. Field strip it, clean it, lube it well, 1911s like to run wet. Remove any shok buff. I use the slide stop for all my reloads, it's just quicker for me and I've trained it so.

As Edwardware said above, it will batter your pistols innards and can ruin a good trigger job if you drop the slide too much without a round to slow the forward movement as it's loaded.

How does it shoot? When you say custom, do you mean by a well known gunsmith or someone at a kitchen table?

 

[entropy]

As gwpercle mentioned, the correct method for chambering a round in the 1911 is to push the slide release down. Save the slingshotting for guns that need it.

 

[citizenconn]

I agree with some of the others posting here. Field strip it, clean it, lube it well, 1911s like to run wet. Remove any shok buff. I use the slide stop for all my reloads, it's just quicker for me and I've trained it so.

As Edwardware said above, it will batter your pistols innards and can ruin a good trigger job if you drop the slide too much without a round to slow the forward movement as it's loaded.

How does it shoot? When you say custom, do you mean by a well known gunsmith or someone at a kitchen table?

It was advertised a being a custom gun from a gunsmith, but it is looking more like a kitchen table job the more I look at it. Luckily I did not pay too much for it. Parts of the gun are very nice, others look like they installed some parts (like the safety) without actually custom fitting them.

I work 7:30a-9p all week this week, so I haven't had an opportunity to take it apart and check it out yet. But I am expecting what many here have posted, that they installed a shok buff on the gun (it seems to have several Wilson Combat parts) and that the slide is not going all the way back.

Also, thanks to everyone for the reminder to not slingshot the slide on an empty chamber. I do always make sure to slowly guide the slide forward with my off hand when I release it.

I was working the safety this morning, trying to figure out why it was so tight, and it fell out. Sigh. I think the spring in the plunger tube shot across the car.

The upside is that my Dad and I had been looking to try our hands at a putting a 1911 together from parts and this will be a great project gun to start learning on as we fix the issues it has. He and my Mother are down here in Houston this week staying with me while he gets the spot on his lung checked out at the MD Anderson Cancer Center. Looks like he may be back and forth from Fort Worth to Houston for a few weeks as he gets radiation treatments. So this gun will be a good project to take his mind off that. He has already cleaned about 100 of my rifles and put together a dozen ARs from parts in my gun room in the week he has been here.

Thanks for all y'alls advice and help.

 

[citizenconn]

Is there a shock buffer in the gun? Sometimes those will prevent sling-shotting.


Edit to add: A shock buff will look like one of these https://shopwilsoncombat.com/SHOK-BUFF-RECOIL-BUFFERS-1911-PACKAGE-OF-6/productinfo/2B/

I will check when I have a chance to take it apart, but I expect you are right. Thanks.

 

[citizenconn]

Custom or....been ....messed with?

Some parts are high end and very nice, but it looks like they did not custom fit some things like the safety. Looks like they also had issues dovetailing in the front fiber optic sight.

 

[citizenconn]

The OP said this is the issue.

In other words, he can't sling-shot the gun, but he can drop the slide by using the slide stop. This is a common issue with a shock-buff, that often will limit slide travel.

Of course it is possible I'm not understanding the OP's post, and I need clarification.

When the slide is locked back I can depress the slide lock and the slide will go forward.

But when the slide is locked back, with no mag in the gun, if I try to pull the slide back farther so the slide lock can drop down on its own it won't. I have to manually push it down. I don't think the slide will let me pull it back far enough to disengage the slide lock. I also don't see a detent in the plunger tube like I do on my other 1911s. I hope that clarifies things.

 

[citizenconn]

Is there a shock buffer in the gun? Sometimes those will prevent sling-shotting.


Edit to add: A shock buff will look like one of these https://shopwilsoncombat.com/SHOK-BUFF-RECOIL-BUFFERS-1911-PACKAGE-OF-6/productinfo/2B/

I will have to see when I get a chance to take it apart, but I am speculating there probably is. Thanks.

 

[wgf]

There maybe a burr on the inside or outside of the frame hole that the catch goes through. When the magazine follower is pushing on the catch it misses the burr. When there is no Mag it bears on the burr. Same on the pin. Pin may not be perfectly round and in certain positions it binds.

 

[tark]

. I also don't see a detent in the plunger tube like I do on my other 1911s. I hope that clarifies things.

There is your problem, right there. Disassemble the gun and remove the slide stop. Can you see anything at all in the plunger tube? If there is nothing there you are missing parts. If you see a plunger but it isn't protruding, remove the grips ( some solvents will harm them ) from the gun and squirt some solvent in the P tube. See if the plunger can be freed up. If it can't, the spring is probably broken. The plunger assembly is a three piece assembly, the small plunger, spring and large plunger, which bears against the safety. These parts are inexpensive. They can be replaced by anyone and cannot be installed incorrectly.

Before you do any of this, make sure the P tube itself is undamaged and staked in tightly. It must not wobble, not even the tiniest bit. If it does, it will get worse and it needs replacement. Again, the part itself is inexpensive but special tools are required to stake it properly.

Can you post pictures? This would help immensely.

 

[citizenconn]

There is your problem, right there. Disassemble the gun and remove the slide stop. Can you see anything at all in the plunger tube? If there is nothing there you are missing parts. If you see a plunger but it isn't protruding, remove the grips ( some solvents will harm them ) from the gun and squirt some solvent in the P tube. See if the plunger can be freed up. If it can't, the spring is probably broken. The plunger assembly is a three piece assembly, the small plunger, spring and large plunger, which bears against the safety. These parts are inexpensive. They can be replaced by anyone and cannot be installed incorrectly.

Before you do any of this, make sure the P tube itself is undamaged and staked in tightly. It must not wobble, not even the tiniest bit. If it does, it will get worse and it needs replacement. Again, the part itself is inexpensive but special tools are required to stake it properly.

Can you post pictures? This would help immensely.

The plunger tube seems staked on pretty well. No wobble. But the slide catch was so close to it I could not tell if there was a detent in it. But I got the feeling there was not.
Another things I noticed was that the thumb safety was very hard to operate and while trying to engage it, it fell out. If there was a detent in the plunger tube on the side by it, it I think it flew across my car and against the window. So I'll see if I can find it or if not buy another. It went back in the hole but is very floppy now, so I assume I'll have to reassemble the trigger group and grip safety as well so it will work properly. The post on the thumb safety on the right side is way too long anyway so I assume instead of fitting it properly they just stuck it in there as is.

This will be a good project gun for me to learn 1911 gunsmithing on. That was the impetus for me learning AR gunsmithing years ago as well, buying an improperly assembled rifle.

I'll try to take some pictures though it will be this weekend before I have time to check it out because of work. I am expecting that when I remove the slide there might be a shok buff installed, keeping the slide from going far enough back to let the slide catch drop back down properly. Thanks for the assistance. Always fun to me to learn new stuff about guns!

 

[tarosean]

Sounds like you should have paid with monopoly money. Bubba was the gunsmiths name I assume?.

 

[citizenconn]

Sounds like you should have paid with monopoly money. Bubba was the gunsmiths name I assume?.

Thanks for the helpful comment.

 

[tarosean]

Thanks for the helpful comment.

You state that parts may have exited while some have in fact fallen out of your new "Custom" gun.. While it may feel like I am kicking you when your down. We cannot do much of anything until you know what you have on your hands.

 

[CapnMac]

if I try to pull the slide back farther so the slide lock can drop down on its own it won't. I have to manually push it down.

Ok, that's just weird.

The angled cut in the slide, and the leading angled edge of the slide stop, ought to kick the thing down when the slide is pulled back.

Only idea I have is a poorly ground rear face of the slide stop (where the detent pushes upon it).

The conical front of the detent (it does have a conical front, yes?) ought face towards the muzzle.

 

[trackskippy]

As the Capt said, the slide itself should be pushing/camming the slide stop down as it moves rearward, it doesnt just fall down on its own. The detent stops that. You can pull the slide back just enough that there is no pressure on the stop, and it will just sit there. Pull it back to the rear, and the slide cams the stop down below the bottom of the slide.

If something is stopping the slide from going back far enough to do that, thats likely your answer. I can see a buffer causing problems there. The guns Ive picked up in the past that had them, and those with the FLGR's, were the ones I had issues with, until there were removed, and the guide rod replaced with a proper plug, spring, and guide.

This was a High Standard 1911 I got cheap in a trade a few years back. If you look close, they didnt mill the slide right, and the back side of the stop notch hangs down below the bottom of the rest of the slide. It was doing basically the same thing yours is doing, and would not release the slide when pulled back. At first, I filed the top of the slide stop off until it would work and it did. I fixed it properly once I knew for sure what the problem was, and filed it off so it matched the rest of the slide, and replaced the slide stop I filed down with a proper one.



That gun also came with a blue rubber buffer installed, and that made pulling the slide fully to the rear a bit of an issue, and it also caused some other function problems, as it was already falling apart when I got it, and bits and pieces were getting into places they shouldn't be. Once removed, it worked a lot better.