2 IDPA questions

[CLP]

1. Just how international is IDPA? Outside of Canada, are there matches in other countries?

2. Moderator McBorland recently deleted a bunch of replies some folks were making to another thread. What's the controversy with IDPA?

Main reason I'm asking is that today was the second time I was asked to come check out and consider joining my club's IDPA match, and McBorland's comments made me wonder what the deal is.

 

[MrBorland]

1. Yes. IDPA claims their 2011 World Championship drew shooters from 18 countries. I'm betting the IDPA website would have a list of which countries were represented.

2. Moderators delete comments when they're off-topic and likely to derail the thread.

There's really no "controversy" with IDPA - it's just some have strong opinions about it or how it should be shot. Some seem confused that it's a game and not self-defense training, and others seem to insist that since it's not SD training, it's not worth shooting, and that everyone who does shoot IDPA is confused. Some just prefer USPSA matches. Some poo poo IDPA and USPSA matches because it's not what they shoot. The list goes on...

Rather than rely on opinions you might read here, I suggest you accept the invitation and check IDPA yourself (better yet, shoot a match). I bet you find it's a fun & safe shooting environment that'll improve your shooting to boot.

 

[GJSchulze]

I suggest you check out the IDPA website to answer your first question.
I shot IDPA; I don't know of any controversy. I'm not aware of the thread you referenced, but I can't imagine he deleted replies just because he doesn't like IDPA. Can you reply with a link to that thread?

IDPA is a well run organization and is a lot of fun. The shooters are friendly in my experience. I urge you to check it out.

Why do you ask about the international aspect; are you not in the US or Canada?

 

[Jim Watson]

I shot at the IDPA Nationals for the first ten years, then they relocated outside my "combat radius" for travel. I have continued to shoot at the local, State, and Regional level.

I have met a number of shooters from other countries.
There was a regular entry from Bulgaria and a German that I ran into at two Nationals. He was surprised that we remembered him.
The Venezuelan team was well known... mostly for their stunning girlfriends.
I know one Englishman who has to leave home to shoot a pistol.
This area has a Filipina who is a terrific shot.
And EVERYBODY knows "Honeybunny" from Italy.

And that is just a sampling of the ones who can travel in from abroad, there are active programs in all those countries and more. The World was to be held in Puerto Rico this year, until some sort of hangup brought it back to Oklahoma.

The IDPA board has threads on programs from Kenya to Finland and a lot of places in between.


Hey, I'm in Alabama, too. Quad Cities area, shooting from Birmingham north into Tennessee and west into Mississippi.

 

[tarosean]

What's the controversy with IDPA?

since mine was one of the deleted posts. No real controversy just a preference.
Try both types, IDPA & USPSA, to make up your own mind. They are similar, yet very different at the same time, if that makes any sense to you.

 

[CLP]

What I meant when I asked about "how international" is it was if there were matches outside of the US/Canada. The pull down menu for location of matches showed a few other countries but no pending matches. I was curious about that aspect because I was under the impression the handgun laws were extremely strict in many/most other countries. I do plan on at least checkin out one of the matches if I can get a day off when one is held. Thanks.

 

[Detritus]

it's just some have strong opinions about it or how it should be shot. Some seem confused that it's a game and not self-defense training, and others seem to insist that since it's not SD training, it's not worth shooting, and that everyone who does shoot IDPA is confused. Some just prefer USPSA matches

and much seems to be (at least to me) an unforeseen consequence of the early period of IDPA's existence, when they were carving their Niche in the competitive shooting world and needed to strongly delineate themselves from USPSA.
There WERE a lot of voices in the late 90's saying IDPA was "better training" or "more real world/realistic" than USPSA. and the fact that the statements were meant to contrast the two orgs not as absolutes, seems to have gotten lost in the shuffle.

as many have already said, try 'em both see which one fits you best and have fun.

personally I've only shot one IDPA match, and for reasons having nothing to do with it being "IDPA" (I suffered failures both technical and personal/training in nature) the experience was not pleasant. But that was 16-17 years ago and I do plan to go back and try it again some time. esp since i'm "back home" now and close to where I can easily try it again.

 

[waktasz]

The controversy is that the people who have taken over the sport in order to revamp the rules did a pretty good job at making it worse over the course of the last two years. I was an IDPA shooter for 7 or 8 years but gave up my membership two years ago because of it. It's good to see that the new rulebook has regained some level of sanity though.

 

[GJSchulze]

My understanding was that IDPA came about because some people think USPSA changed too much into a game rather than self defense oriented. That's what I've read. I've been shooting both for four years so I can't attest to the truth of that. It could mean either that USPSA changed into more of a game or it could mean that it didn't change at all and some people wanted it to change to be more self defense oriented.

The only value IDPA has for self defense training is that you must shoot and reload behind cover and shoot tactically. After that it's just learning to shoot with more emphasis on shot placement than USPSA.

I like USPSA, but I do better in IDPA. Shooting both means more trigger time.

the people who have taken over the sport in order to revamp the rules did a pretty good job at making it worse over the course of the last two years

Are you saying that they took control of IDPA just to revamp the rules? I find that a little hard to believe. The rules are a compromise between it being for self defense and it being a competitive game. I agree that some of the rules don't make sense. There are both old rules and new rules that just seem wrong. They did away with round dumping because there's no way to prove it. I dump a round when necessary, although I always make it count. You can't shoot in the open if you go to slide lock and I'm thinking 'if I have to reload on the run, I'm going to start shooting before I reach cover.'

In the end, it's a competition, so it will never be real life. Very competitive shooters will game the system to get an advantage. Always.

 

[CLP]

Ok I think I got the idea. Don't want this to turn into a big debate or anything. I just wanted to know what the deal was. Doesn't seem like a big deal to me personally

 

[waktasz]

Are you saying that they took control of IDPA just to revamp the rules? I find that a little hard to believe.

No. The leaders at IDPA wanted a change. They 'hired' the people on the various tiger teams to revamp the rulebook...and they did a fairly good job of trying to bury the sport IMO. Not on purpose of course. They just did a bad job. The latest revision of the book that came out this year reversed a lot of that mess and I think the sport is going back in the right direction now...but for many, myself included, it's too late. I'm out, not going back. Was a member since 2004.

 

[ddc]

You can't shoot in the open if you go to slide lock and I'm thinking 'if I have to reload on the run, I'm going to start shooting before I reach cover.'

Everybody has got their "IDPA hot button" and that one is mine. Thanks a lot; I was just getting my blood pressure back to normal.

IDPA Shooting rule 3.6.1, there must be something wrong with me; I just don't get it....

 

[GJSchulze]

It would be a lot better if they gave the reason for each rule.

I read that the reason for the short lived (i.e., now rescinded) rule that says that you can only move one foot while reloading behind cover was that they removed the rule against round dumping because it can't be enforced and replaced it with the one foot can move rule in it's place.

The thing is, if you just look at the rules without real world self defense in mind, the rules don't bother you quite as much. It's the 'IDPA mimics self defense' idea that makes members angry about some of the rules.

They have set up a mechanism for further explaining rules and this is helpful. Again, I think the issue is trying to maintain a balance between mimicking the real world and rules that prevent gaming the system "unfairly."

 

[waktasz]

They actually said that they consulted various tactical trainers and none of them would recommend moving while reloading....but I'm sure that's a loaded question. No, I would not charge into an un-cleared room while trying to do a relaod, but if I had just engaged 8 guys from one side of a brick wall, I might do a reload while backing away to make my escape....and I certainly would not stand at the corner of said wall, where all of my attackers know I already am, and try to get a reload done. No way.

 

[Jim Watson]

The REASON for each rule? Wow, that would lead to a rulebook the size of an unabridged dictionary, good thing we have e-books now.

You could just abide by the rules of IDPA. Or USPSA. Or 3GN. Or whatever outlaw match might be devised by somebody else who doesn't like the published rules either. But then what would you say about his rules? So write your own and schedule range time to run a match and see who shows up.

There was a well attended outlaw match here recently. I thought it odd that the rules were different from stage to stage, even target to target. The organizer says his regulars like it that way.

 

[btg3]

IDPA is wildly popular in my area. A match that used to be shot in the morning, now takes a whole day due to the hoard of shooters. Overall a good thing for sure!!! But now I shoot when the weather is wet or cold enough to keep fair weather shooters at home. Watching other people shoot has its limits, as that's not the main reason I enjoy IDPA. And state matches are worth a day-long commitment as the round count is higher and registration is capped to assure the event is manageable.

 

[9mmepiphany]

And state matches are worth a day-long commitment as the round count is higher and registration is capped to assure the event is manageable.

We recently capped our local matches, via Practiscore, at 120 shooter, we're running 8 stages.

Makes running a State Match a piece of cake

 

[David4516]

I'm not an expert, I've shot 4 IDPA matches, one of which wasn't "official" and another was a "classifier" (that one was this last weekend). 2 matches were at one range, the other two at another.

For the most part I really like it. I can tell you that different locations have different styles. One of the ranges I've shot it is much more self defense oriented with targets being fairly close to you and with relatively low round count. The other range had targets further out, more numerous targets, and higher round counts.

Why am I mentioning this? If you try IDPA at range A and don't like it, try one more event at range B before you give up on it.

To me the pros and cons are as follows:

Pros: You get to move and shoot at the same time, this is something you can't do at most ranges. You get to shoot in some creative scenarios (like from inside a car for example) that again you probably wouldn't otherwise have the chance to do. It's fun. You get to watch other people shoot and you can learn alot just by seeing how they do things.

Cons: It's a game. I thought the whole point of IDPA was to practice with the gun that you'd normally carry concealed. I realized that was not the case after my first match. Most people compete with very large pistols like full size 1911 or Glock 34s. From what I understand they didn't even have a category for smaller pistols until March of this year (they call it BUG "back up guns"). You'll see guys shoot the match with their Glock 34, then at the end of the day they'll put it back in the case and slip an Ruger LCP or Kel Tec P32 in their pocket. It could just be me but I see little value in spending all my time practicing with a pistol I have no intention of carrying. I shoot my last match with a Glock 43 that I actually carry. I used an IWB holster even (another thing you rarely see at a match). Only other con: it's expensive. You pay to join IDPA. You pay fees at each match. You pay for ammo. It adds up quick.

 

[MrBorland]

I thought the whole point of IDPA was to practice with the gun that you'd normally carry concealed.

You might've gotten this from those who presume to tell others how IDPA ought to be shot. IDPA doesn't say this. Coped and pasted from the IDPA homepage, it says:

"IDPA is the use of practical equipment including full charge service ammunition to solve simulated “real world” self-defense scenarios using practical handguns and holsters that are suitable for self-defense use.
...
When you come to an IDPA match, you can not only use your duty/CCW equipment, you can be completely competitive with it!"


On other words, the scenarios are set up so that CC/duty or other SD-suitable gear can be competitive (and it certainly can be). That's a far cry from saying the whole point of the game is to use your CC/duty equipment.

Only other con: it's expensive. You pay to join IDPA. You pay fees at each match. You pay for ammo. It adds up quick.

Shooting competitively costs, but believe it or not, IDPA's one of the more affordable games.

 

[9mmepiphany]

I have to affirm what MrBorland just posted.

Of all the shooting games IDPA is the most affordable.

I started in IDPA because of the lessor requirement of equipment and number of rounds shots per match...the maximum number of shots required per stage is 18.

 

[David4516]

Don't get me wrong I think the pros outweigh the cons when it comes to IDPA. To the OP: I think it's worth trying, or at the very least, observing, to see if it's something you'd be interested in.

All I'm saying is that it wasn't exactly how I pictured it in my mind.

Regarding the cost, my wife shoots with me so it's twice as expensive for us LOL