20-07

[Fly320s]

Kludge,

Know thy enemy, right? Like others have said, we are really targeting the undecided (uneducated) masses, at least that is my intention in that slapped-together ad.

If education is the key, then both the good side and the bad side must be shown so that the bad can be identified and eradicated (No, I don't mean killed): show the fence-sitters how ridiculous the anti-gun arguments are and how the anti-gunners want to disarm all people.

As for my ad, I just threw it together. Obviously, someone with actual graphic design skills can do a much better job of it. Mine is merely an example.

Finally, I just yanked those photos off of the 'net via Google images. I don't know a thing about copyrghts. Two of the photos are from THR, and one is of me, so I presume that those are safe to use.

 

[DirksterG30]

I'm in.

 

[emitt1]

I'd be willing to kick in an extra hundred bucks. I think USA Today will work for our purpose, all regions. The only problem I see is the lack of adult readership in this nation. The young seldom, if ever, read newspapers.

 

[sm]

USA Today

I never thought about that. That makes a lot of sense and almost too easy.

Okay, what do you folks think about USA Today?
Someone check on rates and all.

Fly320s, your work still looks fine to me for the message .

I would just ask Oleg for permission along with the other owners of images and then PM Henry Bowman for input on being legal and all.

Then your work can be tweaked to however one formats something for an ad.

I appreciate the feedback and interaction here everyone, thanks!

Steve


We keep getting richer but we can't get our picture on the cover of the Rolling Stone - Dr. Hook

 

[MrPeter]

Count me in. I like the idea.

I hope this gets really big. I'm glad I can get in on the early workings!

I think I'll write an opinions article to some local papers about this when it gets going, or maybe to get it going?

 

[Fly320s]

Thanks, Steve.

I still think that we would be better off having a professional (THR-er) finalize the layout to give the ad more "pop."

USAToday will work, if they will accept the ad. I'm not holding my breath. Otherwise we should use regional papers in the big cities, billboards on major highways, and internet ads of course.

Put my name in the money pot. Make it an even $500.

-Tony

 

[bsf]

I have been following this thread, but have remained silent. I think the intention is great. Attempting to utilize energy created/unleashed by the Zumbo incident is good.

I have some questions/concerns, though.

First, before I would contribute, I would want specifics concerning the utilization of donations.
Second, what are the specific short-term goal and objectives. Is there a long term goal or objectives?
Third, has anyone considered allying ourselves or working with one of the established “players” in utilizing our donations for this specific advertisement campaign. We obviously would want control of our message, whatever it is. If we already have enough experience within the THR ranks, that is great. Coordination of efforts with other groups may improve chances of achieving our objectives, though.

Just some food for thought.

Thanks for your efforts.

 

[grampster]

I'm in.

The Bill of Rights are individual rights. The First Amendment guarantees my right to freely speak my mind. The Second Amendment guarantees the rest of the Bill of Rights and our Constitution shall not pass away. What part of "...shall not be infringed." don't you understand.

Maybe a picture of a child standing in front of the Capital, with the above caption.

Just my .02¢.

 

[mnrivrat]

I'm thinking an ad in a major east coast publication may have the side benifit of pulling some press coverage ? Hard to say I suppose.

At any rate , I think that if there are 200 people willing to throw in on this idea, there is going to be 200 ideas to deal with and not much will get done. I suggest a coordinator come forward that will pool the funds, and the idea's for the ad. Perferably someone who can do the graphics for the add. Then perhaps a display of some of the graphic idea's posted here with a poll to determine which might be one that the majority can see as being appropriate.

Perhaps also a short list of where the ad may do the most good & the cost of placing the ad of at least 1/2 page in size.

Once that is done, then it a matter of choosing ,placing & paying for the add.

So - to whom should my money go to ?

 

[Sage of Seattle]

Excellent ideas, all!

Here are my own personal critiques and they may be taken as you wish:

#6
Picture: a 1903A3

Text above: "Black Rifle circa 1906."

Text below: "Military pattern firearms are not "Evil". Don't judge a rifle by it's appearance. Judge the character of the one who uses it."

"Hunter and Shooters Unite! Fight HR1022!"

kludge,

This is my favorite of yours so far. I would change the wording slightly in this manner: "....don't judge the rifle. Judge the character of the one who uses it. Hunters and Shooters unite! Oppose HR 1022!"

#8
Text above: "Can you tell the difference?"
Picture on left: an XD-40 with 1/2 dozen or so 10 round magazines.
Text below picture: "not an assault weapon"

Picture on right: an XD-40 and one 12 round magazine.
Text belowpicture: "assault weapon"

Text below: "Don't allow HR1022 to marginalize your right to self defense. Contact you representatives today!"

I love this concept idea of the pic. To make it simpler with more impact, I'd make the picture itself a bit more clear: a pic with the XD and a magazine, and ten cartridges in a semi-circle around the magazine. Next pic is the same set-up but with two more cartridges in the center of the semi-circle. This, in my mind, would be simpler and easier for non-gunners to see just what two extra rounds would mean.

And, I really hate to say it, but I'm not sure how many people know what the word 'marginalize' means. "Contact your representatives today!" is great, but an added web address would help to point people in the right direction...


Fly320s,

Your .doc file was good. My suggestion in that would be to remove the names of the people and the names of the guns and the names of the groups that you put in small typefont. The pictures are the most important thing. I can't name hardly anyone in those pics, nor can I name all of the guns you used, but it doesn't matter because I recognize the people's faces and I recognize that there are different firearms. That way you don't detract from the impact of the pictures and the main words you used which were great, IMO.

 

[sm]

Objectives

I cannot Project, therefore I do not.
I do allow myself to plan.

Real Time Internet proved itself with Zumbo.
Pat Rogers and Denny Hansen are taking an action with Zumbo to attract and educate not only Zumbo, also other persons in regard to ARs 2A and Freedom.
I am going to support Pat Rogers and Denny.
I am NOT going to meddle in what they do anymore than Pat Rogers and Denny would Meddle with me giving Zumbo shotgunning lessons at Skeet with a 28 gauge. I'd bet money neither of these gentleman would meddle with me if such a thing were to happen that I of all folks were to give shotgun lessons.

Real Time Internet also proved something else:

Folks that Firearms are just not part of their daily lives are being totally ignored.

Pro-Gun folks, they typed pages and pages of "Preaching to the Choir".
Anti-Gunners and Gun Control proponents - they too typed pages and pages " Preaching to their Choir"
These two opposing camps , in which Firearms are an influence in daily life- Preached to respective choirs.

What about the Folks for whatever reason - Firearms are just not part of their daily life?
Not really even fence sitters, just those that for whatever reason were not exposed to Firearms in any capacity.

How about folks that do not use Internet.
How about folks that do not have a magazine subscription, or even buy a magazine?

These persons for whatever reason , no matter if into hunting, competitive shooting, bench rest, cowboy action , skeet, trap, sporting clays, LEO, Military [Active or Retired] and others...

Persons that hate guns, are members of Brady and other Anti-Gun Groups...

J.Q. Public that are neither Pro or Anti...

Newspaper is the most likely Medium to reach folks.

I am old school and subscribe to the Marketing concepts of Trout & Ries.
Positioning : The Battle For Your Mind

By Golly ! WE are in a serious Battle of Minds when it comes to Freedom!

Attraction or Promotion? Well being totally honest, there is place for both, I do feel Attraction is needed right now.

I am old school in regard to Responsible Firearm Ownership. My Mentors & Elders passed onto me being a Responsible Firearm Owner, was more than just guns.
Both THR and TFL have in Mission Statements Responsible Firearm Ownership in the first sentence.

It is MY responsibility to attract and educate and make aware all of which Responsible Firearm Ownership encompasses.

Attraction. Take a broom and mop, cut the handles down so a kid can more easily use them and that kid will be attracted to the idea using the broom and mop. "Hey neat! These are my size, can I sweep? Can I mop?

Oh I guess Promoting by yelling, screaming, fussing and fuming at a kid to sweep and mop works.
Just my take is the kid will be more willing and receptive - less prone to argue, rebel if attracted to the idea of sweeping and mopping if the tools are at their level of use and understanding.

No I cannot and will not Project how taking out a Newspaper ad will do.
It may fall totally on its face. We won't know unless we give it a go.
We will learn no matter the outcome.

I do allow myself to Plan, hope and dream a wee bit. So if People from all walks Pro, Anti, or Never even thought about guns see an ad like Fly 320s,
Then yeah, I can hope and dream some folks are receptive.
Maybe that Skeet Shooter sees the young lady shooting a rifle and "I got a grandkid that really should be learning to shoot .22 single shot rifles.
Maybe that 3 gunner will see the Benchrest shooter and "you know, I have never attended such an event, I need to check these folks out.
Maybe the SKeet , 3 Gunner, and Benchrest folks need to visit the Cowboy Action folks and interact from them.

Maybe the Anti's will re-think.

The ones that are not preached to at all might get curious, might see something, perhaps recall a relative way back shot Trap, Bulls-Eye, or some other discipline and be attracted.

WE of all sorts of disciplines invited folks to a gun range to eat free food, free drinks, play horseshoes, finger paint, face paint and whatever else we had going on - at a gun club.

Invited folks that most times had never been interested in guns.
"A gun club, and you are inviting me and my kids out?" - they asked.
"Yes, just come out, enjoy the day, and free to leave anytime - no strings, no preaching, no choir and no collection plates" - we replied.

This thing went off bigger than expected!
No shooting at all. Just one big cook-out.
Attractions? Big Time.
These folks Asked - all sorts of questions.

Skeet " go see Steve"
Kid with face paint and parent asking about .22 rifles, "See Barbara"
Trap " go see Dave"
Benchrest " see Tony over there"
Bulls-Eye "Martha is the gal you want to see".

I will say this. A Bulls-Eye Shooter will make sure the Pickle is dead center of a hamburger pattie.
Benchrest shooters do a perfect circle of ketchup , or mustard on a hamburger bun.
Trap shooters are pretty good at swatting flies going away from them...
Skeet shooters like me...we toss burgers and hot dogs like nobody else can...and we can swat flies coming at us.

Objectives: Awareness , Education, Coming together, and in doing so sending a message to Politicians Folks are paying attention and doing things.

 

[Patriot-Brewer]

I'm in!

Kludge has some good ideas. I also agree with SM.

K.I.S.S. to start with. I'd like to see a one page or half page add in USA Today with just the Gadsden flag, in color, and below it, the 2nd Admendment.

Another idea that will not require any colors is, again, a 1/2 or 1 page add in USA Today with 10-15 quotes from our founding fathers regarding the 2 A's real purpose. Straight from the horses mouth.

Let's become one of those non-affiliated political thingy's, like the swift boat guys that trashed John Kerry, I forgot the title of those "groups". I know, dreaming.

 

[MDHunter]

We Need A Few Things to Get This Moving

Hi Guys,

A lot of good ideas, and a lot of energy.....need to focus it a little bit and lay out some logical next steps and goals. I'll toss out a list of items, and maybe we can use that as a starting point?

1) What Do We Want to Accomplish?

When SM started this, the idea was to bring hunters, match shooters, plinkers, etc TOGETHER rather than having us all out here in splinter groups; so, it's fair to say that we'd like more people to feel welcome in our effort to keep and bear arms, right?

If that's the objective - the ad needs to focus on THAT audience - getting those people to stop sitting on the sideline, and pull up a seat next to the fire. Keep the message clear and concise - forget about pointing out our opponents, explaining concepts that are too detailed or technical, and everything else - in essence, aren't we saying "let's band together as a unified, cohesive unit to protect our RKBA."

2) What do we Want People to do When they See the Ad?
If we're talking about a grassroots effort to bring the sects together and also encourage people that arent yet active in any of the splinter groups to join, we should probably start with an ad in the Washingtin Post and/or USA Today, see how that goes, and then move down to more local levels. Who knows, maybe the large paper ad will be plenty!

But - if we want people to join us in the fight for RKBA - the ad also needs to tell them WHAT they can do to get involved. Do they access a certain website that will provide more details, or something else? If someone gets excited when they see the ad, we want to make it easy for them to say COUNT ME IN.

3) What types of steps do we need to take, to make this happen?

Here are a few, I may forget 1-2 but this is a start:

a) Mechanism to flesh out the ad - we can probably do that here

b) Mechanism for people (here I'm referring to we THR members who have offered to pony up funds) to contribute, and to ensure that the money goes to the ad campaign to assuage any people's concerns about misappropriation - probably need a legal or financial person to set this up for us, do we have volunteers

c) Are there any tax or financial regulation implication to what we're trying to do - probably need an attorney to chime in and provide guidance/counsel

d) Is our proposed ad draft OK in terms of tone, will it achieve our intent, and how do we avoid copyright issues - need a person with good media/PR background here

e) Once people start wanting to get involved, where do we funnel them to help them learn more, to harness and make use of their energy in current legislative efforts, etc? Perhaps we can create a new thread on THR called THIS WEEK's ASSIGNMENT or something similar

f) A mechanism to continue the momentum if this DOES take off - we can discuss that later.


That's all I can think of at the moment, but having a discussion around these points should help us to frame the effort. If people want to chime in and give comment on sections above, please cut/paste the section you're referring to, so we can follow along easier.

I'm in for a few hundred! This is exciting guys and gals...

Michael

 

[sm]

Appreciate the input everyone.

Look, I am not that smart, YOU folks know the "In's" and "Out's" of getting an ad in a paper. My Ad guy/gal back in the day would come by, I would share what I wanted, he/she would do proposals, I would pick one, pay the lady/ gents and just do it.

I can get anyone to break low 7 in skeet in short order.
I know diddly-squat about graphics, copy , print or whatever. I couldn't take a picture if the thing had handles and mounted on the wall.

Help. I do not ask for help well, still "help". There I officially asked.
Oh I still want a small Gadsden Flag Logo somewhere - please.

What I want to be perceived by anyone is a United WE The People.

I want Brady, George Soros, Rebecca Peters, Mayor Daly, Hillary, Kennedy and everyone else attempting to take Freedom away to see an ad in USA Today and go Rut-Roh, we got a problem!

I want Everyone from Anti's, to Fence Sitters, to Pro Gun to Name any Firearm discipline, using any firearm for anything to see this Uniting of Persons - Fighting Freedom.

Darn right I want Firearm Mfgs and Firearm related equipment, including Magazines to see this.
I do not care what kind of Magazine, from SWAT to Outdoor Life to Field&Stream to
Black-powder to - whatever- By golly I want the message out.

I have contacted one Publisher incidentally and sent him the link to this thread to watch.

YOU folks know of someone - great, ask them to watch this thread and if WE get this thing to be a united , sweet simple, workable/ doable effort - Get the thing out.

Fly320 did a great ad IMO, the USA Today suggestion was brilliant!
WE do not need to make matters difficult by re-inventing the wheel.
Fly320 did a ad from scratch.
We also have images already done, as evidenced by Fly320's, so all we have to do is - however you folks cut, paste, tweak and whatnot to make into AD.

Just be sure to ask permission from the persons that did the images.
Me...get someone willing to take the monies and get the money up, ad done and out.
Tax this, Org that...don't look at me. My take is get this done,and if by some miracle we choose to do again, whoever has brains, smarts and experience can advise.

Just we do not need to get bogged down overthinking this.

Trust me, I tell folks all the time "quit thinking and just shoot the darn thing".

Focus on the Target - not the equipment - Will Fennell

I dunno, just me, still it seems in doing an AD gotta be some simple stuff like one does in shooting.

Oh - I will mention I have sent the link to this thread to one Publisher to watch. I will keep who this Publisher is and our Emails private.

My gut gets ideas...just I need a lot of help on getting this one to come to fruition.

Help.
Please.

 

[ilcylic]

I'm seeing some amazing ideas here. I am perfectly willing to contribute $20.07 (+ paypal fees, or whatever) to a solidly defined pro-2A ad campaign. Kludge, you've got some astoundingly powerful imagery. Sage of Seattle; same. I think the 10 rounds / 10 + 2 rounds really makes a clear point.

But I am very on board for pushing the Zumbo initiated "hunter + shooter" unity oriented campaign. We need more unity. We need more unity more than almost anything else. Gun owners are fully 1/4th of the population of the country. We can get attention if we make ourselves visible.

Edited to add: SM; Let's do this thing. I will back you to the *censored* hilt!

 

[Dr. Dickie]

I don't know where this stands right now, and I have not been "in the business" for about 15 years, but I strongly suspect that USA TODAY is not going to want to buy advertising from an individual. The easiest way to get through would be to get an ad agency involved. All they would have to do is purchase the ad space, and get USA TODAY's approval of the ad (once we get it finished).
20 years ago, I could have gotten all the particulars in a snap, today I am well out of that loop.
I am willing to do some investigative work, if no one else has any links to an ad agency.
Let's not let the ball drop on this, I can feel the MO falling off. Let's kick it again!

 

[buzz_knox]

How do I help?

 

[emitt1]

ditto, and quickly.

 

[rangermonroe]

Some times the devil is in the details, other times the devil is the details.

Don't get too caught up in pleasing everyone, the NRA has proven the futility of that notion.

Spend my money, If I don't like how your doing it, you wont get any more. But there will be a bunch of folks behind me who do.

 

[Dr. Dickie]

USA TODAY NATIONAL RATES:
1/2 page, B&W on Friday is $84,400
1/3 page, B&W on Friday is $65,200

http://www.usatoday.com/media_kit/usatoday/ai_rates_full_circulation.htm

There is a 15% discount to an advertising agency, so likely someone would do the buy for the 15%.
That's a lot 'o clams for someone to shuffle through. I suspect we are going to need some fiduciary help here.

 

[sm]

I sincerely appreciate the legwork.

1. WE need a AD company (one of us ) to step up please.

2. Now we individuals ask Businesses and Industry to contribute.

Firearm related industries :
Mom&Pop Gun shops, Clubs, Ranges, Guides/Hunting Preserves, Firearm Mfgs, Ammunition Companies, Leather Works (holsters, belts, mag/speed-loader carriers...etc) , Reloading Components (smokeless and black-powder), Equipment companies from range bags, possible bags, Eyes, Ears, shell pouches, conceal carry vests, gun cases,...conceal carry purses...)

Magazines
[Disciplines of all kinds, from handguns, rifles, hunting, collecting, black-powder, cowboy action , Self Defense, Training...LEO gear, Military Gear...]

Training.
I am speaking of training facilities and individual trainers to contribute.
From a school that teaches shotgunning for clay games to CCW instructors, to those instructors and known facilities all over the country that hold classes from basic shotgun, rifle and handgun classes, to more advanced levels.

Please.

A few dollars from the local gunsmith in a Mom&Pop store, the pot gets passed at a local gun club , the change from the vending machine at a gun club.
If you shoot at a indoor range, and that range also teaches folks to shoot, holds CCW classes - ask the range owners and permission to ask members of that range to chip in.

Yes, I am even asking those trainers that are well known, extending to those that write to chip in and if the facility itself will.

$90 is just some numbers with a comma , decimal point and all.

Freedom is everyone from the kid learning to shoot a .22 single shot rifle, to the black-powder shooter, clay shooter, Cowboy action shooter, Deer hunter, small game hunter, High Power shooter, 3 gunner, ISPC, IDPA, Lone Deputy Sheriff out in the boonies, to big city SWAT team member, to....


Moderators- Please feel free to either start a new thread more clean and concise, or edit this one.

Start sending folks to this thread / new one started to gain even more support of any kind including financial.


Respectfully,

Steve

 

[emitt1]

So much for USA Today.

 

[Dr. Dickie]

So much for USA Today.

Not necessarily.
If we can set-up some sort of holding group for the money, some place that it can be donated to that has the ability to be accountable, I think a lot of us would do more leg work to raise the money to buy the ad.
However, barring someone able to handle that level of cash (a bank account set-up under some name--Law Abiding Gun Owners of America--LOGOA) that can cash checks (someone with legal expertise is needed here as I am speaking out my here) we are going to stall out.

 

[emitt1]

Sorry, Doc, you're correct of course. I suppose I felt that "stalling out." I've already said I'd throw in a few hundred. Now, who steps forward with the legal wherewithall?

 

[bogie]

You can get a lot more flies with honey...

The "cold dead hands" bit doesn't fly. Promising blood in the streets in the event of a ban plays into the other side's talking points.

I think what we should do is put together some ads. SIMPLE text and SIMPLE photos. And ask the major hunting/fishing/firearms mags to run 'em. Can't hurt to ask. That doesn't cost a dime. Heck, they have stuff to fill all the time. And _at the same time_ provide them with some "how to" columns on second amendment activism. Give 'em some content to go with the ads.

Can we afford to spend $85K on a ONE TIME deal? It may get a bit more publicity beyond that, but that's only a maybe.

Besides, Friday morning for USA Today sucks - Joe Businessman is the paper's primary reader, and he just wants to get his crap together, check out of the hotel, and get to work with his luggage, so that he can do his wrapup meeting for the week and then hit the airplane.

Idea: A lot of classified ads in newspapers around the country, in the sporting goods section, to point people toward www.thehighroad.org. That's buyable. Also drop 'em in papers that sell "hunting property" ads, etc., etc.

Idea: Use some of the cash to print up some good materials to give to dealers, gun show promoters, etc... Basically a list of _simple_ talking points to use with the media. KEEP IT SIMPLE, and make it easy to use. These guys aren't gonna read something that takes 30 minutes to deal with. At the same time, we need a big internet buzz asking people to ask their gun show promoters the next time they go to a show to make sure they check it out.

Idea: Do a pre-emptive media day. Alert the media that gun control is likely to come up in the coming elections, and you'd be happy to invite them to your club (and make sure it's to a NICE club... Not a garbage-strewn gravel pit... if you don't go to a civilized place, find one.), for a steak/tofu (their choice) dinner, and a bit of instruction, with certified (don't use the letters N, R, or A...) safety instructors present. They can bring cameras if they want, and they can shoot anything they want, after they pass their safety instruction. I'll gladly throw a few hundred bucks worth of ammo, and some interesting rifles toward a St. Louis event...

Idea: For that matter, get your club to do an open house. Have a few folks set up with tables with _their_ portion of the gun culture explained... Put up fliers in EVERY local gun store or place that sells guns/ammo/hunting/camping stuff (cheapest), and alert the media (bribe them with the above...).

Idea: College folks (easiest access to a LOT of bulletin boards) buy an extra printer cartridge - or get your folks to do it - it's for HOMEWORK! Print some of Oleg's posters on 8.5x11 sheets, and do a bit of guerilla papering. Concentrate on issues that give our detractors brain freeze... Gays with guns, women's self-defense, etc... You're successful if there's a story in the school newspaper about "who put these up?" A coupla weeks later, do it again with a different set of images around the same orientation, but this time add www.a-human-right.com to the posters.