22-250?

[Ninj500]

After several weeks of research I've decided (I think) on a 22-250 bolt action rifle. Expected uses will be paper punching, hopefully some varminting and general plinking. Lack of recoil is vitally important due to serious shoulder and back problems. The only other option was the .223 and my AR-15 fills that slot. Besides, variety is the spice of life. If I understand correctly, the 22-250 has a little more velocity than the .223 and is effective to a longer range. I guess I'm looking for validation or at least a good excuse to go with the 22-250.

 

[swifter]

ninj,

If you have serious shoulder/back problems, be aware the 22-250 does have some recoil, not much more than a 223, but a bit. Feed it the 40 gr pills, that should minimize it...
Tom

 

[Robby from Long Island]

You might also want to look into a .222 Remington. The ballistics are only about 100 FPS less than a .223, but the .222 should be slightly more accurate than either the .223 or the 22-250.

There is a noticeable difference in recoil between the .222 and the 22-250.

.22 centerfires are known for their acceptable levels of recoil to most shooters, but when physical injuries are present even they can be unpleasant after 30 or 40 rounds.

The .222 Remington set more records for accuracy than any other centerfire cartridge until the appearance of the 6PPC about 20 years ago. It's still a great varmint round out to about 225 yards and has a pretty mild muzzle blast. JMHO.

Safe shooting.

 

[Jim K]

The .22-250 has a lot more power than the .223 and generally is considered more accurate, although advances in the .223 since it became the military target round have somewhat negated that advantage. Recoil is greater than the .223, but not very much.

I agree, though, that the triple deuce (.222) is very accurate and has less recoil than either the .22-250 or the 223, so it may be a good choice for the very recoil sensitive. Even further down the power curve is the .22 Hornet, a fine old cartridge much overlooked today, but capable of taking care of varmints out to one hundred yard plus territory.

Just for giggles, when Colt was first pushing the AR-15 as the answer to all rifle problems, I told a Colt rep that when I got a chance I would load my .22-250 down to .223 velocities and see what it would do. The guy went berserk, yelling that the .223 was the most powerful cartridge ever developed, that one shot would destroy cities, etc., and how could I talk about loading down to match it, and so on. I walked away in mid-rant.

Jim

 

[cratz2]

All three are fine cartridges. I've had three different 22-250s and never could quite warm up to it. Actually, my step father in law has a Ruger No 1 Varmint stainless/laminate that I can borrow anytime I wish so that's probably why my 22-250s keep getting traded off.

Here in Indiana, there isn't anywhere that I can commonly shoot much beyond 300 yards and the 223 is fine out to those distances. I decided that there isn't really anything the 22-250 does that I want to do that can't be done with a 223 or a 243 and the 243 is a bit more versatile. I'm not recoil sensitive at all but there is certainly a noticable difference between the recoil of an AR in 223 and a bolt gun in 22-250, even a heavy barreled one. Actually, I don't think there's much difference between the 22-250 and the 243, recoil-wise.

Cool thing about the 22-250 or the 220 Swift is that they make you a magician... "See that crow over there? I betcha I can make it disappear!"

 

[444]

The .22-250 is hugely popular here in Southern Nevada as a varmint rifle. Everyone I know that is a varmint hunter uses a .22-250 without exception. I have one along with about a dozen .223s. The .22-250 can do everything the .223 can do and do it better. It shoots the same bullets faster, and therefore shoots flatter, and gives better bullet performance at long range. Mine is a Ruger 77 that I bought for $150. It is currently without a scope (I need to fix that problem and quit putting it off). Mine is extremely accurate, except it throws the first shot. I guess it is a bedding problem. I can fire a five shot group at 100 yards with four shots in a group less than 1/2" but that first shot is at 11:00 and no where near the other four. Anyway, the '250 is a great caliber and IMO is the best of the .224s.

 

[Ninj500]

For comparison I'm generally ok firing an AR-15 for about 50 rounds before it starts to cause pain. For the foreseeable future my 30-06 is completely out of the question even with the BOSS system muzzle break. I can't sell it though, it was a gift from my wife. Through pure stubbornness I can get off two or three rounds from my SKS but probably shouldn't. Being recoil sensitive sucks. I've purchased a Beretta NEOS so I can shoot pistols for prolonged periods and have a Ruger 10/22 as well. There are times where the need for a little more bang is uncontrollable and that's where this rifle will fit in. I've thought about a flattop upper for the AR and might still go that route. But, there's something about a bolt action that keeps pulling me in that direction.

 

[Art Eatman]

I've yet to use one, but the KickEze recoil pad is supposed to be 20% better than the Pachmyr.

Some sort of shooting shirt or jacket with a pad sewn onto the shoulder will also cut down on felt recoil.

If you're not doing several miles of walking with your rifle, somewhere between eight and nine pounds for the package shouldn't be bothersome. That weight, with bullets of 50-ish grains or less and coupled with good padding, shouldn't bother a bad shoulder.

Art

 

[Jim Watson]

Nothing wrong with a .22-250, but cartridge shape is not the sort of variety I seek, and the added velocity will work against you in recoil and barrel life. The .222 is a great round but not common these days. A Hornet will drive you crazy trying to equal the accuracy of the bigger .22s. If you just like long term projects, fine...

A GOOD .223 bolt action would be like night and day from your AR. But you would do best to forget it had any connection with that AR. Forget the surplus and fake surplus ammo. Buy it commercial brass and varmint or match bullets and it will shoot.

And when you don't need the big bang, the same thing applies to a plain old .22 lr. A really nice bolt action .22, anything from a CZ to an Anschutz will blow that Ruger away.

 

[Badger Arms]

If I were in your position, I'd get a 24" barreled upper for the AR-15. Get a flat-top with a free-floated handguard. DPMS Makes some reasonable ones with a great reputation for accuracy. You can also get a match trigger pretty reasonable too. Get the 1-10 twist

Here's my beef with the 22-250. I like the cartridge, but you don't get a great deal more out of the gun than in the .223. I don't like velocities beyond the 3500 fps range and you can even push the 50's out to that sometimes with the .223.

 

[Smoke]

I love the .22-250.

With commercial ammo there is an advantage over the .223.
Not significant but will give you a bit more range and a flatter trajectory.

I have a Kimber 84M that I am in love with. I'd trade my wife, my dogs and one of my kids before I'd part with this gun. (Ok, not my dogs)

Its an outstanding varmint round, does well on the smallish whitetails we have in this part of the world, and is a great paper puncher too.

I feel recoil is no worse than a .223. BUt you will notice a difference between your semi-auto AR and a bolt gun.

 

[ShaiVong]

Im not sure if it was here or TFL, but somebody posted an article on the most deadly cartridge: 22-250 (or was it 220 swift?).

Said something about dropping feral burrows with it in one shot, including gut shots.

FWIW.

 

[mrming]

All I can say is get a heavy barrel. My handloads werent too liberal, but the barrel is pretty much shot out at 3k rounds. Maybe it was just me and bad luck.. but she wont group past 100 yards now.

I'm personally looking at 308.. Yes, its more recoil but if the idea is to punch paper at ridiculious it should do nicely. Varmints will be just as dead, and women will marvel at your good taste.

 

[Art Eatman]

shaiVong, high-speed .22s have been known to do some weird things. There is a documented case of a one-shot kill of a tiger of 300 to 400 pounds, with a .22 Savage Hi-Power. This happened around 1921 or so, if I recall the story correctly from some fifty years back. I do not recall where on the animal was the hit.

And that old cartridge has been around since the Savage 99 was first made for it, 104 yars back. Phil Sharpe lists a pre-WW II load for it with a 40-grain bullet at around 3,900 ft/sec.

, Art

 

[Ninj500]

As always THR members are a wealth of information. Many of the issues brought up here I considered originally, but just as many weren't part of my decision making process. The biggest reason I settled on the 22-250 was that it's clearly an excellent cartridge. I also wanted to add some variety to my collection. I knew it had more recoil than the .223 but was under the impression it wasn't significant enough to override its advantages. Now I'm back to my starting point of being stuck between a bolt action .223 or 22-250 and a flattop AR 223. It looks like I can't make a bad decision no matter which I pick. This weekend I'm going to a gun show and it will most likely come down to what's the best deal. If it's a bolt action I'll try to find a heavy bbl version. Any help with reducing recoil is a big issue in my case. If I go the AR route I'll probably pick up a kit.

Thank you all for the help. On some other boards I would have been flamed for being recoil sensitive. Yes, it sounds amazing but it's happened to me in the past.

Gerard

 

[ShaiVong]

I'm a recoil WUSS.

Medicating that with a whole lot of girlie .22LR rounds is alot more fun, and cheaper, than brusing my wallet and shoulder with 50 cals.

Cheers to all you recoil addicts, thats more CCI Blazers for me

 

[BHP9]

The .22-250 has a lot more power than the .223 and generally is considered more accurate,

I think you may have accidentally got your words turned around. As varmint hunters and target shooters are all aware as the recoil goes up so does the barrel vibration and in my experience and that of my colleagues have found that barrel harmonics simply dictate that the less recoil and barrel vibration the more consistantly accuracte the weapon.

QUOTE]A GOOD .223 bolt action would be like night and day from your AR. But you would do best to forget it had any connection with that AR. [/QUOTE]

Actually your years behind the times. Todays heavy barrel AR15's are now the equal of any run of the mill commercial heavy barrel bolt rifle viz Remington, Winchester, Savage etc. My own Colt Heavy Stainless AR15 with 6oz second stage Jewel Trigger will shoot 1/2 inch groups all day long and with the right super match ammo get some groups as small as 1/4 inch. In contrast my very , very , super Heavy Winchest M70 with a 7/8 inch heavy barrel as opposed to my AR15 3/4 inch heavy barrel only shoots a few more occasional 1/4 groups than my Colt does. I know for sure that if I rebarreled the AR15 to the same thickness of barrel (7/8 inch) that it would then shoot the same number of occasional 1/4 inch groups that my M70 Winchester shoots. In short even with the lighter weight barrel the AR shoots so close to the super heavy M70 that it is not worth even mentioning.

The 22-250 has a very short barrel life as opposed to the .223 usually burning out in as little as 2,000 rounds as opposed to the 10,000 round plus life of the .223.

Colleagues of mine who hunt prarie dogs have shot out 22-250's in one day due to over heating and have since gone over to the .223 making shots as far as 800 yards with the .223.

Back east the farms that I hunt ground hogs on are seldom more than 200 yards wide making the high power .22 centerfires unnecessary. Still is is thrilling to see my 220 Swift literally flatten a ground hog and see a trail of blue smoke in the air from the bullet that is actually on fire from the high rotational and also forward speed of the bullet.

 

[ShaiVong]

...see a trail of blue smoke in the air from the bullet that is actually on fire from the high rotational and also forward speed of the bullet.

Flaming bullets?

 

[ShaiVong]

Say a 1:7 twist

Thats 1 turn in 7"

Traveling 3,500 FPS

thats 42,000 IPS

42,000(in/sec) X (1 Turn/7in) = 6,000 RPS = 360,000 RPM?

Wow!

Is that right?

Does anyone remember their centripedal(sp?) formulas? I would be interested in what the force is on the copper jacket of that bullet.

 

[Mal H]

Unless it's a custom barrel, you would be hard pressed to find a .220 Swift with a 1:7 twist rate. Even so, the bullets are rotating in the high 200 thousand RPM.

BHP9 - I'm wondering what part of your bullet catches fire. The copper, the plastic tip of a ballistic tip?

 

[ShaiVong]

If hes talking about after it zipps through a critter, it may be fleshy critter bits sizzling off...

 

[JohnDog]

I know for sure that if I rebarreled the AR15 to the same thickness of barrel (7/8 inch) that it would then shoot the same number of occasional 1/4 inch groups that my M70 Winchester shoots

Gee - using that formula maybe you could shoot a 1/8" group if you went up to a 1.25" barrel.

JohnDog

 

[Ninj500]

My quest unexpectedly ended today when I walked into Gander Mountain and they had a .Savage 12FVXP .223 with heavy bbl, synthetic stock and 4X12 Simmons scope for $409.99. I figured that was the best I’d be able to do anywhere and took it home. Thank you to everyone for the advice.

 

[Jim Watson]

Nin

I think you will be well pleased.
Remember, feed it GOOD ammo - hope you handload - and don't try to slough it off with cheap hardball, and accuracy should be good. Harry Pope once worked for Stevens, later acquired by Savage, and I think they still remember how to make a good barrel. If it doesn't have the new Savage adjustable trigger, there are some aftermarket triggers you may want to add after you have made sure it is a basically sound and accurate rifle.

BHP

I am well aware of what a tricked out AR derivative can do, I have a pretty good one of my own. But it cost a lot more than that Savage and has the bad habit of throwing match prepped brass away.

 

[Ninj500]

I picked up a box of Black Hills JHP to get me started. Looking at the selection of ammo in .223 is enough to make a person dizzy. It was easy for my AR, buy Winchester White Box or surplus FMJ. Picking for this gun is a little more difficult. Everyone I asked had good things to say about Black Hills and it came in a 50 round pack for 14.99. I'm slowly gathering handloading equipment and should be set to go by the end of May. If there's anyone in Central Ohio willing to show me the ins and outs of handloading I'd appreciate the help.