22" Barrel - 30-06 or .308?
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unwise11
Member
.308 for anything up to deer, .30-06 for anything over deer. (white tail)
bubba15301
Member
not a dimes worth of difference between them
Art Eatman
Moderator In Memoriam
22"? The .308 will equal the '06 until you get to bullets long enough to protrude back into the powder charge. 165s don't, SFAIK, but the 180s do, a bit.
An '06 with a 26" barrel will generally have a 300 ft/sec edge over a 22" .308, particularly with 180-grain bullets or heavier.
.308 = shorter action = slightly handier and a tad less weight. Plenty good as a basic deer or elk gun.
An '06 with a 26" barrel will generally have a 300 ft/sec edge over a 22" .308, particularly with 180-grain bullets or heavier.
.308 = shorter action = slightly handier and a tad less weight. Plenty good as a basic deer or elk gun.
USSR
Member
I like 24" barrels on my hunting .30-06's. 22" is fine for a .308.
Don
Don
1stmarine
Member
It would make sense if you start with the bullet.
What bullet you need, what purpose?. Then decide what case and barrel is more suited for sending that bullet for the purpose.
Very rarely will find a need for a longer barrel than 20" in .308win and 22" in 30.06 also if you want better accuracy. All things being equal, the shorter the more accurate the barrel is but if you need long reach then see how much speed you need. in 20" the .308win is almost done pushing the bullet. Anything too long will hurt more than help.
I would not take it to the extreme of some swat snipers that use 18" barrels. Normally their engagements are 100 yards or less in urban encounters and compactness and extreme accuracy is more important than military situations when the extra reach is needed.
So define the purpose and bullet and the rest leave it to the math.
Thanks.
What bullet you need, what purpose?. Then decide what case and barrel is more suited for sending that bullet for the purpose.
Very rarely will find a need for a longer barrel than 20" in .308win and 22" in 30.06 also if you want better accuracy. All things being equal, the shorter the more accurate the barrel is but if you need long reach then see how much speed you need. in 20" the .308win is almost done pushing the bullet. Anything too long will hurt more than help.
I would not take it to the extreme of some swat snipers that use 18" barrels. Normally their engagements are 100 yards or less in urban encounters and compactness and extreme accuracy is more important than military situations when the extra reach is needed.
So define the purpose and bullet and the rest leave it to the math.
Thanks.
BrocLuno
Member
If all I had was a 22" barrel option, I'd be picking the .308 The 06 will still be burning powder (bigger charge to start with) when most bullets leave a barrel that short. So, you will have more muzzle flash and report w/o any more speed or power. If you hand load maybe you can get the burn rate to match better?
MachIVshooter
Member
The '06 doesn't suffer in a 22" barrel. Pick your game, then pick your bullet weight. Once you've done that, the cartridge is chosen by defacto.
If you intend to use it for elk, moose or bear with 180 or 200 grain bullets, the '06 is optimal. For Deer and other medium game, 150 gr. pills work fine, and the .308 will launch them at the same velocity with a smaller charge (hence slightly less recoil).
If you're after a lightweight rifle, the .308 will save a couple ounces. There is no difference in ammo cost.
If you intend to use it for elk, moose or bear with 180 or 200 grain bullets, the '06 is optimal. For Deer and other medium game, 150 gr. pills work fine, and the .308 will launch them at the same velocity with a smaller charge (hence slightly less recoil).
If you're after a lightweight rifle, the .308 will save a couple ounces. There is no difference in ammo cost.
1stmarine
Member
For hunting and if extreme accuracy is not a concern then look for the great deals in many versatile hunting rifles like Savage, Remington, Tikka, Browning, etc...
There is nothing in this continent that either cartridge with a Barnes TSX 168 or 180gr bullet cannot take. If you want to do long range then you can jump into the big magnums but then the least of your worries is what system to choose but the gear and training that is where the big dollars must go.
The advantage of the 30.06 is the capability to get the extra fps. unless you need to kill two in a row at the average hunting range I would not worry about this as you also have the new superformance ammunition in both chamberings. I am currently doing testing with the new ball Superformance powders.
The .308win is our current military standard, it is short action, very reliable and versatile and can be found in great package deals/surplus for target/ training.
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/default.aspx?productNumber=492947
There is nothing in this continent that either cartridge with a Barnes TSX 168 or 180gr bullet cannot take. If you want to do long range then you can jump into the big magnums but then the least of your worries is what system to choose but the gear and training that is where the big dollars must go.
The advantage of the 30.06 is the capability to get the extra fps. unless you need to kill two in a row at the average hunting range I would not worry about this as you also have the new superformance ammunition in both chamberings. I am currently doing testing with the new ball Superformance powders.
The .308win is our current military standard, it is short action, very reliable and versatile and can be found in great package deals/surplus for target/ training.
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/default.aspx?productNumber=492947
For hunting, my preference would be the 30-06 as it's more versatile. However, I don't think there is anything that I'd hunt with a 30-06 that I'd hesitate to hunt with a 308.
Barrel length makes little difference between the two. As to whether a 20" is too short of the 30-06 or the 22 is too long for the 308 depends on the powder selected. As for myself, the shortest I go with a 308 is 18". 16" has too much muzzle blast
Barrel length makes little difference between the two. As to whether a 20" is too short of the 30-06 or the 22 is too long for the 308 depends on the powder selected. As for myself, the shortest I go with a 308 is 18". 16" has too much muzzle blast
1stmarine
Member
MistWolf, Wise words.
I think the perfect barrel size for the .308Win is 20". I think in a Bull barrel is the perfect compromise between speed and accuracy.
Also I think the 30.06 needs the two extra inches minimum and can even use extra two more specially using lighter grain military loads (more powder M2 ball cartridge)
.308 win BBLs with 26" barrels are hard to fill with hot gases no matter what powder, even the slowest ones.
30.06 loads in a 26" can provide maximum speeds that is what some manufacturers use so they can advertise a larger speed/energy and write the BBL in little letters or not even mention it but the down side with the largest barrel is that you will have A) Extra weight B) less accuracy (Again all other things being equal) The longer the barrel the lower the tune of that barrel. The lower the tune the less accuracy nodes at your disposal. Can they become accurate, yes? but they need more work with the loads or other methods of harmonic tuning. Also the weight is a factor. Not a huge concern for the bench rest shooter but a big issue for the hunter, a military sniper or the Swat/police operator.
I do hunt with a bull barrel but I can understand folks like something lighter
to carry all day. My primary objective is extreme accuracy even if I have to carry the extra weight. I also understand this is not needed for most hunting situations. When I say extreme accuracy I mean systems that are capable of delivering 1/2-1/4MOA consistently so this allows me to take neck shots if I want at longer ranges. Not that I need this most of the time but in a few occasions has been very handy. As I enjoy the challenge of hunt so much I do not care too much the easy shots but I take whatever the lord has to offer.
.308Win / 7.62x51 NATO.
16" in .308Win only special purpose (socom) and some assault rifles and patrol systems.
18" in .308win some Swat snipers and other special operators. Also some assault weapons.
20" in .308Win is the Sniper/Swat standard, specially urban scenarios. Many hunting rifles and assault rifles.
22" in .308win Many hunting rifles. Some Bench rest rifles.
from there even some 24" and 26" inches...Also Bench rest shooters and high power (long range) shooting to squeeze the last FPS possible with special powder but in reality IMHO totally unnecessary and contra productive but some can make it work for them.
.30.06
18" in .30.06 Never saw one. Would be a big boom!.
20" in .30.06 I have seen some custom rifles for bush hunting but this is a waist of powder that burns outside. Milder loads can be use that save barrel and case life. .308Win would be better here.
22" in .30.06 many hunting rifles and other type of systems around the world. Manageable blast and recoil though.
24" in .30.06 The M1 Garand standard BBL. perfect for the military loads but can do the job even with less length.
26" in .30.06 Can squeeze a little bit more with the right powders but keep in mind the purpose. This is what some manufactures use to put the max speed and
energy in the boxes they sell. Again, weight not a concern for the bench but I don't like that long in these casings.
Going back to my statement about why to start with the bullet is so important is because in the end everything balances itself out.
If you like a military load then the Garand lenght is ideal or the 20" in the .308 win. but if you want more reach then the first thing is that you have to look for better bullets. Even if you consider using the BArnes or other modern all solid copper bullets this is a consideration as they are longer due to the lack of lead. In other words, to meet the grain they are longer, they have to...
Just a quick example of what I mean....
150gr vs 175grSMK vs 168grTSX
168grTSX and 'big momma' 180gr TSX.
Those bullets are normally much longer that means they seat deeper, that means you have less case capacity, more pressure so powder load has to come down. Then the length of the barrel is ok to come down too as there is no so much powder to burn but it is ok to loose speed because low drag bullets fly much better that you can reach longer anyway. The concept of starting slow and ending fast like Bill Alexander preached to sell the grendel.
Now you have more parabola so you need to know your optics and ballistics charts but that is a different story.
I hope this makes sense.
Cheers.
E.
I think the perfect barrel size for the .308Win is 20". I think in a Bull barrel is the perfect compromise between speed and accuracy.
Also I think the 30.06 needs the two extra inches minimum and can even use extra two more specially using lighter grain military loads (more powder M2 ball cartridge)
.308 win BBLs with 26" barrels are hard to fill with hot gases no matter what powder, even the slowest ones.
30.06 loads in a 26" can provide maximum speeds that is what some manufacturers use so they can advertise a larger speed/energy and write the BBL in little letters or not even mention it but the down side with the largest barrel is that you will have A) Extra weight B) less accuracy (Again all other things being equal) The longer the barrel the lower the tune of that barrel. The lower the tune the less accuracy nodes at your disposal. Can they become accurate, yes? but they need more work with the loads or other methods of harmonic tuning. Also the weight is a factor. Not a huge concern for the bench rest shooter but a big issue for the hunter, a military sniper or the Swat/police operator.
I do hunt with a bull barrel but I can understand folks like something lighter
to carry all day. My primary objective is extreme accuracy even if I have to carry the extra weight. I also understand this is not needed for most hunting situations. When I say extreme accuracy I mean systems that are capable of delivering 1/2-1/4MOA consistently so this allows me to take neck shots if I want at longer ranges. Not that I need this most of the time but in a few occasions has been very handy. As I enjoy the challenge of hunt so much I do not care too much the easy shots but I take whatever the lord has to offer.
.308Win / 7.62x51 NATO.
16" in .308Win only special purpose (socom) and some assault rifles and patrol systems.
18" in .308win some Swat snipers and other special operators. Also some assault weapons.
20" in .308Win is the Sniper/Swat standard, specially urban scenarios. Many hunting rifles and assault rifles.
22" in .308win Many hunting rifles. Some Bench rest rifles.
from there even some 24" and 26" inches...Also Bench rest shooters and high power (long range) shooting to squeeze the last FPS possible with special powder but in reality IMHO totally unnecessary and contra productive but some can make it work for them.
.30.06
18" in .30.06 Never saw one. Would be a big boom!.
20" in .30.06 I have seen some custom rifles for bush hunting but this is a waist of powder that burns outside. Milder loads can be use that save barrel and case life. .308Win would be better here.
22" in .30.06 many hunting rifles and other type of systems around the world. Manageable blast and recoil though.
24" in .30.06 The M1 Garand standard BBL. perfect for the military loads but can do the job even with less length.
26" in .30.06 Can squeeze a little bit more with the right powders but keep in mind the purpose. This is what some manufactures use to put the max speed and
energy in the boxes they sell. Again, weight not a concern for the bench but I don't like that long in these casings.
Going back to my statement about why to start with the bullet is so important is because in the end everything balances itself out.
If you like a military load then the Garand lenght is ideal or the 20" in the .308 win. but if you want more reach then the first thing is that you have to look for better bullets. Even if you consider using the BArnes or other modern all solid copper bullets this is a consideration as they are longer due to the lack of lead. In other words, to meet the grain they are longer, they have to...
Just a quick example of what I mean....
150gr vs 175grSMK vs 168grTSX
168grTSX and 'big momma' 180gr TSX.
Those bullets are normally much longer that means they seat deeper, that means you have less case capacity, more pressure so powder load has to come down. Then the length of the barrel is ok to come down too as there is no so much powder to burn but it is ok to loose speed because low drag bullets fly much better that you can reach longer anyway. The concept of starting slow and ending fast like Bill Alexander preached to sell the grendel.
Now you have more parabola so you need to know your optics and ballistics charts but that is a different story.
I hope this makes sense.
Cheers.
E.
Last edited:
RugerMcMarlin
Member
- Joined
- Apr 19, 2011
- Messages
- 979
My pick will always be a 3006, I dont care a bit if its 22 or 24'', it would take a chrony and a slide rule to tell the difference. And before you guys start about powder burn and flash , you know darn well either could be addressed with a change of propellant. The only use for a .308, is a M1a or a M-14,
Got ya didn't I. the .308s ok too. I was just playing. @#$ I forgot M-60!
I think 99% of the .308 rounds,I have fired was through a 22" barrel,....... on a M-60
Got ya didn't I. the .308s ok too. I was just playing. @#$ I forgot M-60!
I think 99% of the .308 rounds,I have fired was through a 22" barrel,....... on a M-60
Last edited:
dprice3844444
member
http://www.snipercentral.com/308.htm
http://www.snipercentral.com/3006.htm
here ya go guys,compare the ballistic charts
http://www.snipercentral.com/3006.htm
here ya go guys,compare the ballistic charts
Rob96
Member
I am really liking the 308. It is such an efficient cartridge. If you look at it, it has nearly identical ballistics as the '06 but in a short action case using less powder. For game in North America, there really isn't anything it cant handle.
1stmarine
Member
The true is that the 30.06 gives you a tad more to play with but the .308 win gives you plenty of room too. The differences are there but I doubt this is something that it is going to make a real difference for the purpose and in the 99.9% of the situations the average hunter encounters.
If you like an extra boost you can use the superformance ammunition or powders be you need to make sure you have the right barrel to squeeze the extra fps.
Whichever cartridge is hard to go wrong.
If you like an extra boost you can use the superformance ammunition or powders be you need to make sure you have the right barrel to squeeze the extra fps.
Whichever cartridge is hard to go wrong.
RugerMcMarlin
Member
- Joined
- Apr 19, 2011
- Messages
- 979
You're talkin out your a--, Chumley. .308 might match 30-06 in a narrow range of bullet weights, but you'll dedicate your life to playing catch up to the 30-06, just trying to develop " as good as" loads. Give me a matching load for 180 grain. Or 220.
I also would not choose a lesser cartridge just so I could have a short action, not worth what you give up.
I also would not choose a lesser cartridge just so I could have a short action, not worth what you give up.
Last edited:
JerryM
Member
30-06. I submit that a 30-06 will outperform a .308 regardless of the barrel length. I do not like short actions either.
Regards,
Jerry
Regards,
Jerry
RugerMcMarlin
Member
- Joined
- Apr 19, 2011
- Messages
- 979
Check the history, the .308 winchester and the .300 savage were both designed with the GOAL to be "as good as" the .30-06 Springfield. It is not my opinion either achieved that goal. Pretty close but no cigar.
USSR
Member
There's a 200fps difference between the .308 and .30-06 with the heavy bullets, a little less so with the lighter bullets. With the 190SMK, I am able to get 2900fps with the '06, and 2700fps with the .308. This is with specific powders that are ideally suited for this, and a 26" barrel in both cases. Personally, I don't consider 200fps inconsequential, but I like and use both cartridges.
Don
Don
jpwilly
Member
If I were going to own just one a 308 or 30-06 I'd pick the 30-06. But like most people I'm not limited to just one rifle and have plenty that are all virtually identical in capability.
Pick the rifle that fits you and is of good quality and no matter the cartridge you'll always be happy with it.
Pick the rifle that fits you and is of good quality and no matter the cartridge you'll always be happy with it.
1stmarine
Member
USSR,
how do you get a 190gr bullet at 2700fps out of .308Win case?
What powder and load?
Thanks.
how do you get a 190gr bullet at 2700fps out of .308Win case?
What powder and load?
Thanks.
1stmarine
Member
Here are two superformance loads that can give a big boost on a 24" barrel if ever is needed....
http://www.hornady.com/store/308-Win-178-gr-BTHP-Superformance-Match/
http://www.hornady.com/store/30-06-Springfield-180-GR-InterBond-Superformance/
I am playing with these loads and hogdgon powders to see what we can do.
http://www.hornady.com/store/308-Win-178-gr-BTHP-Superformance-Match/
http://www.hornady.com/store/30-06-Springfield-180-GR-InterBond-Superformance/
I am playing with these loads and hogdgon powders to see what we can do.
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