22 Long and Short in 22 LR chamber

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CLP

CLP

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I understand that 22 Short and Long might leave a lead ring in the chamber when fired in a 22 LR firearm. At least that's what I've read.
1. Is it safe to do? Safe if the chamber is routinely brushed?
2. What kind of impact on accuracy is there?
3. What I'm most curious about is what is the dimensional differences between a "standard" 22LR chamber and one that is designed to accommodate all three cartridges?

I don't have any intention of firing a 22 Short or Long in a 22 LR, but I'm picking up some 22 Short and Long just to have them (weird thing to collect, I know). I also have some 17 WSM too but no rifle chambered in it.
 
The non-magnum .22's will shoot in any chamber designed for the .22LR.

I don't have all dimensions off top of my head but you can look up the
heeled bullet. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heeled_bullet

Don't use wiki much but the pic that will give you a place to start is top-right of the page.

It does not matter how long the chamber is as long as it is long enough.
(not the other way around)

If the chamber was an inch longer (exaggerated, for effect) it would not matter.
It would just be further to the lands.

Feeding and cycling certain actions are a different story.
If you have to thumb them in, one at a time, from a safety standpoint you will be fine.
 
I ruined a Remington 514 chamber in the '50s by shooting thousands of Shorts through it. It had a single extractor and cases wouldn't extract when I went to LRs. The chamber was bulged and even when clean, they wouldn't extract. I traded it and got something better.
 
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CLP said:
3. What I'm most curious about is what is the dimensional differences between a "standard" 22LR chamber and one that is designed to accommodate all three cartridges?
Click to expand...
There are no dimensional differences. The guns marked for all three have feeding mechanisms that allow proper feeding of the shorter cartridges. I could shoot .22 Shorts all day long in my Browning Auto-22, but only if I was to manually feed them, whereas my Marlin 39A and Winchester '06 will feed and chamber them without a hiccup.
 
I've fired .22 shorts in .22LR guns much more than longs due to the fact that .22 Longs haven't been common near me in all of my shooting history over the last 4 decades.

I've fired shorts in all sorts of guns. Tube magazine guns tend to be designed to handle them interchangeably with long rifles. However, I've used them in bolt action box magazine rifles, auto loading rifles, auto loading handguns, and of course revolvers.

The autoloaders don't usually feed them from the magazine properly if at all. There is a .22 short magazine made for the Ruger 10/22, but I've never used it. Cycling the action becomes a manual operation, except I think a bolt and spring is available to go with that same .22 short magazine for the 10/22.*

Some box magazines have the feed lips cut in such a way to feed both shorts and long rifles equally well. The 5 round magazines for the CZ 452 and CZ455 come to mind.

As far as accuracy, your going to have to shoot it to find out. I do consider a short to be a close range cartridge, not only due to its power, but because if fired out a long rifle chamber the bullet has some distance to go before it strikes the rifling in the barrel. My most accurate guns tend to have chambers sized so that the rifling touches the bullet when the bolt is closed.

*Looks to be discontinued. https://www.midwayusa.com/product/355152/volquartsen-22-short-kit-ruger-10-22
 
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I'll have to try some .22 shorts. Its hard to imagine even lower recoil than the .22 LR!
Could probably construct a bullet trap pretty easily for them (I wonder how loud they would be outside the garage, lol).

Are shorts generally sub Sonic?
 
milemaker13 said:
I'll have to try some .22 shorts. Its hard to imagine even lower recoil than the .22 LR!
Could probably construct a bullet trap pretty easily for them (I wonder how loud they would be outside the garage, lol).

Are shorts generally sub Sonic?
Click to expand...
Get some Aguila Colibris. Even though they have a warning against using them in a rifle, I have never had one fail to exit the barrel. All that I hear when shooting them in either my Marlin 39A or Winchester '06 is the sound of the hammer falling and the plink of that little lead pill hitting the target.
 
I've heard of these.. are they really enough for rodent control (Chipmunks mostly)? Better/worse/same as a good pellet rifle? I've heard some people use them for coyotes in residential areas??

It would be fun to shoot in the garage. I am in the suburbs so shooting in the back yard (even a BB gun) will surely land me in super hot water.
 
milemaker13 said:
I've heard of these.. are they really enough for rodent control (Chipmunks mostly)? Better/worse/same as a good pellet rifle? I've heard some people use them for coyotes in residential areas??

It would be fun to shoot in the garage. I am in the suburbs so shooting in the back yard (even a BB gun) will surely land me in super hot water.
Click to expand...

I have Colibris (420 fps) and Super Colibris (590 fps). They are both only primer powered, but the Supers are faster and make me feel better about shooting them out of rifle barrels. Basically, they make your rimfire firearm into an airgun except they will dust your floor (and barrel) with dark gray burnt primer that has the texture of ground glass.

What I really like using out of rifle barrels these days (instead of shorts or Colibris) are the CCI Quiets. A heavier bullet that still goes slowly (710 fps), but is the length of a long rifle so it feeds perfectly from long rifle magazines. Still might not cycle the slide on an autoloader, though.
 
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"I ruined a Remington 514 chamber in the '50s by shooting thousands of Shorts through it. It had a single extractor and cases wouldn't extract when I went to LRs. The chamber was bulged and even when clean, they wouldn't extract."
The BSA catalog of 1912 warns of this very thing; throat erosion moved into the chamber from use of shorts in LR chambers. The key word is "thousands".
-----krinko
 
In your experience, how far would the quiet rounds (colibris or ccis) penetrate into plywood?
Cuz of course, now I'm thinking of constructing a backstop of several sheets of plywood and shooting my little .22 pistol in the garage;)
 
Couple things.
No it won't hurt to shoot some in a LR chamber,
In 1912 rimfire ammo was black powder and corrosive primed. Yeah that would eat a chamber up and barrel if you didn't clean it.. Not so now. Main problem is a carbon ring.
Mossberg 146B tube feed bolt action holds 30 shorts.

I use Super Colibries all the time at 25 ft in the basement. Made a 8x12 inch box out of 1x3s and a plywood back. Filled it with Duct Seal putty you get at the hardware store. Have shot 1000s into it and 177 and 22 pellets. Stops them with no ricochets.
 
milemaker13 said:
In your experience, how far would the quiet rounds (colibris or ccis) penetrate into plywood?
Cuz of course, now I'm thinking of constructing a backstop of several sheets of plywood and shooting my little .22 pistol in the garage;)
Click to expand...

I still have enough old phone books and Grainger catalogs to use as bullet stoppers. Wood? I guess a tree stump would do. :D

I'd just get the Colibri or Super Colibris and have a broom on hand to sweep up the burned up primer on your garage floor. I haven't done a wood test with Colibris, but I know a cardboard box packed tight with laid flat newspapers will stop Colibris. :)
 
I got away from shooting the shorts (due to the carbon ring problem) and started shooting the CCI Quiet. Very accurate, no carbon ring, not super quiet but substantially less “crack” than a LR and feeds just like a LR. They do a great job on the tree rats.
 
The .22 Long and .22 Long Rifle use the same length of case and would deposit a ring of lead or fouling at the same spot.
The .22 Short does have a shorter case but I have had no problems with a ring build up from an occassional use of shorts.
.22 Short and .22 Long usually use a 29gr bullet; the Long Rifle has a heavier 40gr bullet; hollowpoints may be lighter.
Most people use .22 Short literally for short range shooting; from most .22 barrels at 25 yards, .22 short will group about as well as .22 long rifle for small game.

I think the ".22 short ring in a long or long rifle chamber" was a serious problem in the days of corrosive primers, which became worse with the combo of corrosive primers and smokeless powder (black powder residue actually diluted the effect of corrosive primers, I heard, or BP residue forced people to clean more often). With modern .22 ammo (noncorrosive primer, smokeless powder, copper palted bullets) I have not seen a lead ring or fouling build up shooting .22 short in a long rifle chamber; but, I have not used .22 short like a whole brick at a time, more like an occassional box or two.

ADDED: I don't believe there there is a measurable difference in chamber dimensions between a barrel marked .22 LR Only and a barrel marked .22 S, L, LR except the capabilities of the action of the rifle to operate with the different lengths.
 
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(black powder residue actually diluted the effect of corrosive primers,

I haven't heard that but I could see where some might think the BP fouling coats the barrel.. BP fouling is hydroscopic (sp) and attracts moisture and corrosive priming is nothing more than a salt thats deposited from the primers. So moisture and salt mixed together is corroded, pitted metal.
 
Sistema1927 said:
There are no dimensional differences. The guns marked for all three have feeding mechanisms that allow proper feeding of the shorter cartridges. I could shoot .22 Shorts all day long in my Browning Auto-22, but only if I was to manually feed them, whereas my Marlin 39A and Winchester '06 will feed and chamber them without a hiccup.
Click to expand...

Thank you - that's what I also wanted to know. I know of several rifles marked for all three and the majority of the 22LRs out there just say 22LR. I knew about cycling issues in semiautos and feeding issues from mags- I didn't realize it was the feeding mechanism that was designed to handle all three.
 
CLP said:
Thank you - that's what I also wanted to know. I know of several rifles marked for all three and the majority of the 22LRs out there just say 22LR. I knew about cycling issues in semiautos and feeding issues from mags- I didn't realize it was the feeding mechanism that was designed to handle all three.
Click to expand...

In a detachable box magazine gun, the magazine is a key part to that feeding mechanism. That's why many current made bolt guns with detachable magazines are labeled .22LR only. Yet the old tube magazine version had the mechanism in the receiver to get ammo out of the tube and into the chamber, which could handle .22 Shorts in many cases.

Then there is the aforementioned CZ452 and CZ455. Both guns are marked .22LR with no mention of other types of .22. Yet due to the design of the magazines, those guns actually can feed .22 short just fine. I was surprised the first time I learned of this and then tried it in my own CZ452 with 5 round magazines.

Since the CZ512 autoloader uses the same magazines as the 452/455, I wonder if 5 shorts would feed well in that gun? Manually operated, of course.
 
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