22-MO finds gun, kills self!

[jr_roosa]

MBT:

22 months is almost a two year old. From a medical perspective, I'd start to get concerned if a kid isn't running by then. They wallk and talk (one word at a time) and get into EVERYTHING, and EVERYTHING is a potential toy: pots, pans, garbage, boxes, dog poop, guns, EVERYTHING.

Also, if we're wondering if the kid shot and killed himself, we're assuming the barrel was pointing at his head/chest/pelvis at the time...probably not a traditional one-handed bullseye grip. My 9 month old could probably do the job with a toe in the trigger guard, god forbid. Any way you cut it, somebody without the requisite maturity (22 months or 22 years or both) got hold of a gun.

My baby can barely crawl, but I lock up all the guns and ammo. It's not that she might get into them, but that there's an ever so slight chance that somebody else (company's kids? the plumber? who knows? who cares?) might get into them and do something dumb.

I advise all my patients who have guns and a baby to lock up the guns. Start when the baby comes home and you'll be good at it by the time they start digging though your closet. It's a matter of epidemiology: not that many kids get shot by home invaders, but lots of kids shoot themselves (accidentally or suicide), shoot each other (accidental or homicide, in or out of the home), or are shot by family members or other adults they know (accidental or homicide).

Sure, there's the argument that a locked-up gun can't protect you. I put that argument in with "I don't wear a seat belt because I might have to jump out of the car when it catches fire after a horrific accident." There are good ways to secure a gun so that you can get to it quickly but nobody else can.

-J.

Post-script: I want to qualify what I wrote about advising patients before anybody jumps down my throat about seat belts or gun locks. If somebody comes to me and asks me what the best strategy is to stay healthy longest, or to keep their kid healthy, then the correct answer is lock up your guns, wear your seatbelt, and don't smoke, and those are the answers you'll get from me all day every day and twice on Sunday. What you do with that advice is up to you.

 

[kludge]

MBT:

22 months is almost a two year old. From a medical perspective, I'd start to get concerned if a kid isn't running by then. They wallk and talk (one word at a time) and get into EVERYTHING, and EVERYTHING is a potential toy: pots, pans, garbage, boxes, dog poop, guns, EVERYTHING.

+1

I currently have a 22 month old. He runs, faster than I can believe, and occasionally talks in full sentences. He shoots his brother's (8 y.o.) nerf gun, though he can't cock it (yet). He can say the word "gun" when he sees a gun or a picture of a gun. I didn't promp him to do this... one day about two months ago he saw me with a revolver and said "gun." I said "What did you say?" and he said it again.

I haven't raised this one any different than the last four, and he's the first that was cognizant of "guns" before age three or four. Must be that he has 8 and 10 year old brothers.

But is he strong enough to pull the trigger on a broken-in .38 DA?

I wouldn't bet against it.

But people still do.

 

[Horsesense]

There is a fundamental difference between the odds of something happening and the stakes. While the odds of a toddler firing a revolver seem high.... the stakes (what you are risking) is unacceptable!

The odds of winning Power Ball may be worth risking a dollar but would you risk your child, on those same odds? The only possible payoff for leaving a gun out, is that someday, you may need to get it fast. Consider the extra $50 or so and couple of seconds extra, to open a quick access safe as hedging your bet and do it.

 

[TexasRifleman]

But is he strong enough to pull the trigger on a broken-in .38 DA?

I wouldn't necessarily bet against it but if I'm investigating this I'm sure taking a long hard look at things.

Lots of people put "Gun Shot Residue" tests down as junk science, but lots of people think it is valid.

I know the FBI has abandoned it because of "reasonable doubt" but lots of places still perform it in the fact gathering stages.

Be interesting to see if one was done in this case.

 

[cassandrasdaddy]

my lil heathen is a very small girl she could start moms car at 18 months and try to put it into gear.
don't underestimate em. they think outside the box. new a kid who hated the suspendes on an outfit his mom made him wear. he climbed up the slide hooked the suspenders on the top and jumped ripped em right off.i ran away from home before 2 fortunatly i was on wake island so i didn't get far.ever see the child proof bottle test video?

 

[Red_SC]

I wouldn't doubt that some 22 MO's could pull the trigger in a smooth .38. My 9 month old has grabbed the handle of a filing cabinet on a couple of occasions and pulled himself completely off the ground- if he can lift ~24 lbs, he is close to pulling a trigger, and he's not even 1 yet. Thanks for this sobering reminder, I'm going to go home today and move a pistol.

This was him at 7 months- he picked the steel clamp up off the floor himself with no help.

 

[Run&Shoot]

Yes, and given the right conditions pigs can fly. So what?

If there are two guys in the house and a 20 month old when a revolver goes off, I am putting my money on a stupid or cruel guy rather than a baby having access to a revolver, having enough unsupervised time and actually figuring it out. I find it far more likely there was some stupid playing or an argument going on then Baby Face Nelson.

I would call BS on the guy's story unless ample evidence proved otherwise. Looks like the local police don't buy it either.

http://www.wesh.com/news/15550786/detail.html

Fatal Shooting Of Toddler Investigated

POSTED: 6:20 am EDT March 10, 2008
UPDATED: 5:53 pm EDT March 10, 2008

OCOEE, Fla. -- Ocoee police said on Monday that they're not convinced a toddler who died in a shooting over the weekend pulled the trigger.

Investigators said they're awaiting autopsy results before deciding if any charges should be filed against the child's father, who owned the gun involved.

The autopsy results should show if Tyler Rodgers, 22 months, had gunpowder residue on his hands that would be consistent with firing a weapon.
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The shooting happened inside a home in Ocoee, but it was not the residence where the toddler and his father lived. Investigators said the father moved the weapon from where the shooting happened, and he gave it to authorities at the scene of the incident.

"The officers that are investigating are trying to figure out where the weapon was and when the child was able to make access to it," William Richardson of the Ocoee Police Department said during a news conference.

Officials said it should serve as a reminder of how important it is to make sure guns are locked and stored away from children.

"(It's) devastating. You know, I feel really bad for those people," neighbor Karen Martez said.

Martez is the mother of two young children, and she said her heart aches for the family whose toddler died.

"I'm shocked that something that tragic happened anywhere, but so close by," Martez said.

The family's pastor said the family is hurting and asked for privacy.

"You all will know in due time. You'll get the police report," the child's great grandmother said of the incident.

Police said the child's family has been cooperative, but the owner of the gun could face criminal charges for not locking up the weapon. They plan to interview the gun owner again --whose name they are not releasing.

"We always have the fact that there should not have been a weapon accessible to a child, so that's always being looked at. That's always pending," Richardson said.

Ocoee police are not saying if the owner of the gun had the gun legally.

To prevent accidents, Ocoee police provide free gun locks.

Some people are having a hard time believing a toddler could fire a .38 special dual-action revolver on its own.

Sharon and Bob Greenwood of Ocoee own the same type of revolver and Sharon said she has fired it.

"Without sounding accusatory. I don't mean that at all. What I'm saying is it just doesn't make sense," she said.

Ocoee police said they've submitted the gun for testing to see if it was operating properly.

"We want to make sure it was an accident. For the child's sake, we want to make sure everything is clean and proper," Richardson said.

The Greenwoods said it would have been easier for a child to fire the weapon if it were left loaded and cocked, but they said they can't imagine someone doing that knowing a child might be able to get to it.

"There's no way we would leave it loaded, nor would we ever leave it in reach of a child," Sharon said.