223 subsonic help needed

[Wolfman Bill]

Gd Afternoon

If possible can someone with “QuickLoad” run a couple of loads for me.

.223,, PMC brass,, CCI 400 primer,, 55gr Rem FMJ-flat base,,16” barrel. 1:9 twist,, OAL=TBD-- (or close to the above parameters)

I am thinking of 4gr Red Dot and 3.5 gr Red Dot, or suggections. (I have tons of Red Dot I’m not using at the moment)

I have been shooting 3.8 & 4 gr of Trail Boss but just ran out and can’t replace till end of next week.

I am a bit worried about fill density and velocity. Would like to keep the velocity around 950-1050 and the fill density above 30%.

Thanks W. Bill
__________________

 

[kingmt]

I tried a 2gr test shoot the other day & it just does get the bullet out of the barrel. Went down to 1.5gr & stuck a bullet about 2" from the chamber. I haven't started working up a load yet & 2gr is the most I've charged it with.

I hope it works well for you. I have as tried some powder close to Blue Dot that I think I'm going to really like. It has a broad range from 4gr up to about 14gr. fare groups @ 100yards. Most were less then 1.5"

Good luck with your load.

 

[Wolfman Bill]

Afternoon kingmt

Thanks for responding-

Wow! 1.5 to 2 grains of Red Dot is well below my personal threshold of comfort. Here I am worried about going down to 3 grains.

I posted this same question over on the Ruger Forum but that site is pretty clickish so unless a person is in their in-group you really can’t get much of an answer to any technical questions over there.

I have been shooting light loads of Trail Boss for a while now and can definitely get just below transonic at 3.8 grns. Problem is I haven’t been all that tickled with the grouping at 75 yards with Trail Boss loads. Shooting 55 grain FMJ with point forward I’m grouping about ¾” at 75 yards but still get one or two fliers per session that open the group up to 1-1/2” or so. Usually the first shot on cold barrel goes low right
Lubricating all the bullets helps a little (definitely helps to keep from sticking a bullet in the bore).
Lately I have been playing with some 62 grain boat tails and loading them backwards (boat tail forward), that gets me a little tighter grouping with no fliers but those bullets are way more expensive than the flat base 55 grainers I like to shoot.

Seeing as I haven’t had much luck with getting someone to run a “Quick Load” safety check for me I figured I might just as well start shooting and see where I end up. I started with 4 gr of Red Dot/55 FB/lubricated bullets/no crimp. That load grouped well under ½” at 75 yards (8 of 10 bullet holes touching). Problem was they were supersonic. So I dropped to 3.5 grains of Red Dot /55 FB/lubricated bullets/no crimp grouping about the same but not so many bullet holes overlapping. These were definitely quieter than the 4.0 gr loads but were either still supersonic or at least high transonic. I don’t shoot on Sundays so on Monday I am going to try 3.3 gr Red Dot. This is getting me a bit worried as I’m sure the case fill will be a bit marginal. Even at 3.5 gr I’m getting a lot of black soot coming back along the cases so I doubt the cases are expanding much during firing.

I was just hoping someone could run the “Quick Load” data for me so I have some idea where I am headed with this.

 

[kingmt]

I got complete burn at 2gr. I don't have a crono yet so I can't say what is sub, super, or transonic. With 2gr RD they still sounded on par or just below the crack of a 22LR Same with 4gr BD. I have some info on BD if you would like it. It's not my data but I have shoot the loads with 55gr FMJ & the person that developed them says they are subsonic.

If your goal is CB I don't have a load for 55gr but I do shoot .22 pellets with primers only. I have also used a little powder behind the pellet to get it to 100 yards & you could here the pellet hit the target with a 1.5" group but I don't have data for it because I was just measuring it in a 380 case. It was a goof off day. i had a buddy call me to meet him & his wife at the range & I didn't have anything loaded up but I wanted to sight in a pellet rifle anyhow so I took both guns.

If your working on .223CBs keep me up to date on your progress. I would also like to see what you gather from your RD testing.

RD is a little pricey for me it cost more then twice what I'm using even counting only using half as much. I know RD will go a long ways though.

 

[Wolfman Bill]

Afternoon kingmt

Long time ago I have tried the 22 pellet with drilled out primer holes and magnum primers. Not all that happy with groups at 75 yards (especially if the least bit windy)

Actually I’m not really looking for the lightest loads possible I’m more looking for about as fast as possible but still under transonic. I shoot on a range in my backyard with plenty of safe area behind me but I do have some neighbors within 1000’ or so, so out of politeness try to keep my range noise to a minimum. I have asked my neighbors to let me know if any of my shooting bothers them and about the only time they can hear much is if I start shooting supersonic as that bullet noise seems to travel with authority.

I have been shooting light Trail Boss loads for a while now and I thought I had a decent loading that wasn’t too loud but the accuracy wasn’t the best. I just ran out of Trail Boss and can’t replace it for a week or so. A while back I bought a bunch or Red Dot on sale at a gun show for $12.00 per pound so I have a LOT of Red Dot that I haven’t been using. Got me to thinking if I can work up a good light Red Dot load might as well start shooting it up. Funny thing is, the Red Dot seems to be giving me much more consistent groups than the Trail Boss did. The thing is; the better groups might be due to a bit higher velocity from the Red Dot. The boom from the gun isn’t a lot louder but I now have some bullet supersonic or transonic noise coming back from down range.

I think I’m going to try to keep backing off until I get down to about 3 grains of Red Dot. If that still groups good and the bullet noise isn’t too loud I just might shoot that Red Dot instead of Trail Boss.

 

[kingmt]

I've never tried TB so I can't compare but I think BD would make you happy if you ever get a chance to try it. RD is still much quieter then BL-C(2), Varget, or similar.

$12 a pound is cheap compared to what I gave for it. I paid $70 for 4#. Be careful with it because of the nature of the beast but it should make fore cheap shooting @ 3gr a shoot. I don't see why 3gr would be a problem because like I said before I used 2gr but it was only one shoot & probably the lowest possible.

If you was close by I would share some of the powder I have. I got enough that it should last a few days.

 

[unwise11]

Just curious, if I loaded 4.5 grains with a 69 grain SMK, out of a 20" barrel, would I have issues with overpressure or not clearing the barrel? I don't care about subsonic but I would like for it to be alot less powerful so I can hunt on 5 acres with a rifle more accurate than my .22.

 

[nastynatesfish]

i used 4 gr of rl2400 for a pop like a 22 short with 40 gr bullets

 

[General Tso]

SS load

Hodgdon has a titegroup SS load for 223 with 55gr. FMJ. I think it's 3.5 grns. It's on their website.

 

[kingmt]

JD

Which powder? If your asking about RD I haven't started working it up yet but BD should work well.

What is your reason for not wanting high power? If you slow a varmint round down it won't frag & becomes more like a deer bullet that can ricochet. If you just want to keep the noise down it will work.

You my want to look into a 17HMR. Mine is a same hole gun @ 100yards.

 

[BsChoy]

I really safe powder would be Traiboss...fill the case to the bottom of the bullet and work backwards. DO NOT COMPRESS THE POWDER!! iT'S DANGEROUS TO DO SO.

 

[Wolfman Bill]

Afternoon BsChoy

On my 223 with 55 gr FMJFB bullets that is about 8.4 Trail Boss @ bottom of bullet. At 70% that’s about 5.8 gr Trail Boss. That is definitely a supersonic loading.

I have been shooting 4 gr Trail Boss for a while now and while it is relativity quiet it isn’t the most accurate loading. 3.8 TB is even more inaccurate.

 

[Huckelberry75]

Try the Sierra 63gn Semi Spitzer. That is the same bullet that Engel ballistics uses in their SS loading.