22LR from a different angle.

[Float Pilot]

I have been goofing around with some cut-down rifles as survival guns for the plane.

Weight and space are a premium. For a pure survival gun, hunting regulations which require shotguns for some types of birds do not apply. In fact most small critters and many fish can be taken with a good ACCURATE .22 LR.
From the ages of 8 until I was given a 7x57mm Mauser at age 13, I did just that with a .22 LR single shot rifle.

I weighed some cartridges that were in my office desk with a digital scale. the accompanying photo says it all... when it comes to weight and space the 22LR is hard to beat for what it is able to do.

Actually I wish somebody would have made an M6 type rifle in 22lr over something like a 357 Maximum, or 454 or 444 marlin.
That would let you harvest just about anything and still give you a big game option and a bear defense option.

As you can see, and as I am sure most of you already know... a 50 round box of .22lr CCI Mini Mags weighs about the same as four 12 gauge shot shells.

 

[Geno]

You're preaching to the choire. I've said a dozen times, the "lowly" .22LR is my favorite, and in my opinion, one of the best chambering ever created. I learned to hunt on my aunt's old .22LR/410 single-shot. I would prefer to have a .22LR/444Marlin. A box of .22LR and a box of .444 Marlin.

Geno

 

[K-Rod]

I'm a .22 freak!!! Between rifles & pistols, I own 34. Revolvers, auto's, semi-rifles & single shots. I/we shoot at least 1000rds every weekend & I keep at least 25,000rds stock piled at all times. Its the (in my opinion) the most versatile cartridge ever made. I (again my opinion) believe it to be the best "Survival" cartridge as well. It'll kill I deer a bow ranges with proper shot placement. Light, some are VERY accurate (call BS if you want but I can cut 6lbs mono fishing line with a 1oz lead weight at 25yrds within 3shots with my Winchester model 90) & what other cartridge can you carry a 1000rds in your two front pants pockets if you had to??? Anytime I'm camping or hiking etc, I have a Ruger six on my hip. Will it kill a bear in one shot? I don't know? Never tried but I do know an old guy that use to run hounds for bear, coons & cats that told me he'd use a .22 to kill treed bears by shooting through an eye. Its a debate that's been going on for years past & will for years more, but I know I love them & providing the wife allows it, I'll buy more & more.

 

[Onmilo]

A single.22 from a revolver will kill a black bear if you put the bullet under the bears chinny chin chin and straight up into it's brain.
I know this because I saw it done with my own two eyes.

I wouldn't want to do a magazine dump on an angry, hungry, charging bear with nothing but a .22 but if you are wandering around in that kind of territory, I am guessing you having something larger on hand anyway.

I find the .22 rimfore to be one of the most useful and versatile cartidges ever developed and the older I get, the more I find myself shooting the .22s while leaving the centerfires in the rack.

A lot of shooting fun for not much money.

 

[CollinLeon]

For the most part, each firearm serves a different mission profile. That's why they sell large gun safes...

When I was growing up on a ranch, we would sometimes have to put down a sick cow. It was entirely possible to do it with a single shot of a .22LR into the forehead from a very close range. I suspect that the bullet went into the skull and then bounced around the brain cavity. It was like turning off a light switch -- the cow would just give a slight shudder (at most) and then die. Probably severed the brain stem...

I take it that this is the version of the M6 that you are talking about?



They have a .22 barrel on top and a .410 shotshell / .45LC barrel on the bottom.

 

[Kendal Black]

The .22LR is the best foraging round ever, but lousy for defense. That's been an awkward trade-off for a long time: Light rifle, light ammo and plenty of it, accurate-- a .22 can keep any half decent shot fed, in most environments. You're doing fine until you meet something that might eat you.

An over-under combination gun gives you only single shot functionality with the larger caliber, as with the smaller one, and that isn't exactly ideal for defense. It might be the best answer when you look at restrictions on weight and size, though.

I don't know the answer, but I admire the question!

 

[Dr T]

The lower barrel of the M6 says .410 shotgun, and I am not willing to put mine to the test with a 45 Colt round...I do, however, keep a 5 round box of .410 slugs in the case with the Gun. Our esteemed bush pilot does make a good argument for a "Premium Grade" .410 slug round.

BTW, I have found the 22 lr barrel on my M6 to be very accurate.

 

[earplug]

If space and weight is a issue, might consider a Ruger 22 pistol with a good dot sight. Only down side I can think of is a bad battery when you need it.

 

[rcmodel]

It might be worth mentioning that the real Ithaca made GI M6 has barrels too short to be legal without a AOW tax stamp

They only have 14" barrels.

And they were never intended to be able too shoot .45 Colt in them.

rc

 

[CollinLeon]

If space and weight is a issue, might consider a Ruger 22 pistol with a good dot sight. Only down side I can think of is a bad battery when you need it.

The Ruger Mk-II is a very accurate handgun. Especially with the longer barrel.

 

[P.B.Walsh]

Yea, I have thought about something like earplug said. Though I would get a revolver or (my preference) a Encore pistol with quality iron sights.

Would be very compace package, then you could mabey still carry an actual rifle or shotgun.

 

[Dr T]

Here is an old review of .410 slugs...

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BQY/is_6_49/ai_100727291/?tag=content;col1

 

[Float Pilot]

The real Original M6 survival gun was designed to fit into the seat pack of a fighter plane. (about the same seat size as a Super Cub... Plus it was designed to be maintained by the survival gear crews with minimal work. There are still a couple drifting around my home town that are tucked into the survival gear bags of their owners.

However, here in the Last Frontier (fading fast due to carpetbaggers) the 410 shotgun part of an M6 or M24 is of very limited use. A 22 will harvest most any sitting or treed game at longer distances than a 410 and the 410 slugs are not powerful enough for big game or brown bear protection.
Now a Brenneke 20 gauge slug is a different matter.

I too usually carry a 3 inch 22LR Air Lite 8 shot revolver in my survival / flotation vest.
But I could not zap a rabbit, fox, lynx, weasel, spruce hen, ptarmigan, coyote, or squirrel at 50 yards with it. And I am a pretty good shot.
Plus:::: I cannot (Legally, at least) take it across the border when I ferry planes to and from the lower 48 via Canada.

CZ makes an O/U 30-06 and 12 gauge combo. And of course there are still German made Drilling type combo guns being made. But they are all fairly heavy and all cost over $2,000. Mostly they circumvent the restrictions some European countries have on multiple firearms ownership by letting you have your 22Hornet, 9.3x62 and 12 gauge all in one firearm. And they are OK as long as you are not trying to carry anything else.

The old Savage Model 24s were pretty neat as long as you did not go up to the larger framed 12 gauge models, or the later models. Those all weighed over 8 pounds. They did make a a limited number of M24 "C" which was the shorter and lighter camp model. It even had ammo storage in the butt. However those are rather difficult to find.



Weight and space concerns..are at a premium

Remember that a two serving freeze dried meal weighs 4.5 ounces. A little less than 3 rounds of 12 gauge bird shot. So a box of 25 rounds of bird shot 12 gauge is the same in weight as NINE double serving meals.
An 8 pound shotgun alone weighs the same as 28.5 freeze dried meals (the double serving type)

 

[toivo]

& what other cartridge can you carry a 1000rds in your two front pants pockets if you had to???

1000 rounds? That's one brick in each front pocket. You must be a big dude and wear really baggy pants!

 

[CollinLeon]

However, here in the Last Frontier (fading fast due to carpetbaggers) the 410 shotgun part of an M6 or M24 is of very limited use. A 22 will harvest most any sitting or treed game at longer distances than a 410 and the 410 slugs are not powerful enough for big game or brown bear protection.
Now a Brenneke 20 gauge slug is a different matter.

We have those same problems with the Yankee carpetbaggers here in Texas also... They bring down their Yankee ways of life and ruin our culture... Come on, who in their right mind would put a HOCKEY TEAM in San Antonio, Dallas, or Houston???

I too usually carry a 3 inch 22LR Air Lite 8 shot revolver in my survival / flotation vest.
But I could not zap a rabbit, fox, lynx, weasel, spruce hen, ptarmigan, coyote, or squirrel at 50 yards with it. And I am a pretty good shot.
Plus:::: I cannot (Legally, at least) take it across the border when I ferry planes to and from the lower 48 via Canada.

Adding Canada to your potential destinations does add some limitations though if you are concerned with the possibility of the weapon possibly being found my the Canadians.

 

[CollinLeon]

1000 rounds? That's one brick in each front pocket. You must be a big dude and wear really baggy pants!

He's in Alaska... Probably the pockets are bigger up there also...

 

[CollinLeon]

What kind of plane are you flying and how overloaded is it that you are concerned about the weight of a firearm and the ammo?

 

[Float Pilot]

Quote:
Originally Posted by toivo View Post
1000 rounds? That's one brick in each front pocket. You must be a big dude and wear really baggy pants!

He's in Alaska... Probably the pockets are bigger up there also...

The brother who mentioned the 1,000 in his pockets was K-rod and he does not say where he is from. It was not me.

 

[whetrock]

USSG/EAA is importing the old Baikal combination guns and they have one chambered in 22/.410 and IMO it would make a great compromise for someone who want's a rifle similar to the old M6 but at a much more affordable price the M6's are very cool and nifty rifles however I'm not so sure they're worth the $500+ they bring on popular gun auction sights all I know is that I plan on purchasing a USSG 22/.410 hopefully sometime in the near future as my woodbummin/walking/utility gun.

 

[CollinLeon]

The brother who mentioned the 1,000 in his pockets was K-rod and he does not say where he is from. It was not me.

Ooops... There goes a mediocre joke wasted...

I believe that K-rod is located in Sandpoint, Idaho...

Idaho has a bit more than twice the population of Alaska...

Damn city slickers...

 

[ApacheCoTodd]

As long as a fella's of a practical mindset and doesn't set up Steven Segal gunfights or hordes of attacking rabid grizzlies scenarios and as such is willing to take a .22 seriously (and why not) how 'bout extending that a touch further and accepting the slight weight disadvantage and thinking .38/.357? The rifle/revolver shared cartridge thing is a nice, the ammo is cheap and readily available and then the options in projectiles can't be beat; shot, tracer (signaling), HP, SWC...

 

[Float Pilot]

CollinLeon "" What kind of plane are you flying and how overloaded is it that you are concerned about the weight of a firearm and the ammo?

Anything from Cubs to Beavers.
Weight and space are money, so you are always closer to max than you would like to be.
It does not really matter if you are hauling one guy out into a remote mountain lake with a Cub or hauling 4 people out in a C-206. They all pay to have their gear brought with them.

At one time the Alaska Laws required carrying a Firearm of some type in your plane.
However, with the influx of liberal canned-food-eaters who have moved out here, the firearms part of the regulation became advisable and not required.

Alaska Survival Kit Requirements, Alaska Statutes 2009, Title 02, Chapter 02.30, Sec. 02.35.110.

Emergency rations and equipment.

(a) An airman may not make a flight inside the state with an aircraft unless emergency equipment is carried as follows:

(1) the following minimum equipment must be carried during the summer months:

(A) rations for each occupant sufficient to sustain life for one week;

(B) one axe or hatchet;

(C) one first aid kit;

(D) an assortment of tackle such as hooks, flies, lines, and sinkers;

(E) one knife;

(F) fire starter;

(G) one mosquito head-net for each occupant;

(H) two small signaling devices such as colored smoke bombs, railroad fuses, or Very pistol shells, in sealed metal containers;

(2) in addition to the equipment required under (1) of this subsection, the following must be carried as minimum equipment from October 15 to April 1 of each year:

(A) one pair of snowshoes;

(B) one sleeping bag;

(C) one wool blanket or equivalent for each occupant over four.

 

[CollinLeon]

As long as a fella's of a practical mindset and doesn't set up Steven Segal gunfights or hordes of attacking rabid grizzlies scenarios and as such is willing to take a .22 seriously (and why not) how 'bout extending that a touch further and accepting the slight weight disadvantage and thinking .38/.357? The rifle/revolver shared cartridge thing is a nice, the ammo is cheap and readily available and then the options in projectiles can't be beat; shot, tracer (signaling), HP, SWC...

The .38/.357 is a great round to reload for also... You can make shotshell rounds easily enough for small game... You can make very low powered rounds for small game that will not mess up the meat so much (and can be quieter than a .22)... You can load them strong enough to take a deer... As far as bears though, well, maybe they'll slow down the bear enough that you can outrun it...

I figure that if I'm worried about bears, I have a .45-70...

 

[Float Pilot]

How about something like a plastic and alloy Bull-Pup 10-22 with a rifled steel 444Marlin, 45-70, 20 gauge or 50 S&W "M203 type" under-barrel.
Have 50 rounds of 22 and 5 rounds of the larger caliber stored in the stock.

 

[kb58]

My survival manual says the Ruger Mk III and S&W Modle 41 semi-auto long barrel pistols are The Solution for survival. The context of this was assuming said survivor was walking for miles carrying all their gear, which certainly applies to your situation.