230 Gr Xtp/hp Oal?

[Tank45]

I've been reloading 45 Auto with 230 GR XTP/HP. I've been loading OAL at 1.23 like the Hornady book says. The rounds feel fine in my Sig 220 and Kimber Custom II, but they feel to long for my Springfield TRP. When extracting a loaded dummy round it takes a lot of force to pull the slide back. It unlocks easy, but at the point where the round is pulled out of the chamber it gets very tight. I do not crimp but I do not expand either. My loaded rounds have a diameter of .4705-.471. I'm thinking that the bullet is coming in contact with the rifling. Like I said this is the recomended OAL in the Hornady manual but the also list 230 gr FMJ at 1.23. Is there a way to measure the, I believe its called, ogive on the 45 auto. Below is one of the loads at 1.23 compared to a GDHP 230 gr. Any advice or recomendations would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

 

[joneb]

I would shorten the COAL until it fits the chamber properly, and then work up the load. Not all chambers are created equal.

 

[freakshow10mm]

You don't expand. You don't crimp. That's weird.

 

[D. Manley]

Odd. I can't imagine a XTP seated @ 1.230 being too long. Have you case gauged any of these to see if something else is causing them to stick?...even extraction burrs can do what you describe in tighter chambered guns.

 

[Ridgerunner665]

Those are my favorite bullets...I load them to 1.23...never caused any problems in my Baer Stinger (match barrel).

 

[Tank45]

I'm still new to this whole reloading thing. I tried to expand the case to be able to set the bullet in it. Then I set up the die to crimp enough to take out the bell. It just seems to work better without it. I use the Hornady Dies and as long as the case goes into the sleeve straight the bullet seams to seat very well. If you don't mind, why do you think that is weird? Like I said earlier, any help is appreciated.

 

[Ridgerunner665]

I'm sure freakshow10mm has his reasons...but the first bad thing that comes to my mind about not crimping is "setback"...the bullet getting pushed deeper into the case during feeding.

"Setback" happens even if you do crimp (especially in a 1911)...but its worse if you don't.

 

[freakshow10mm]

Crimping on a pistol cartridge does nothing to prevent bullet setback. It is prevented by the sizing die properly setting the neck tension. For auto pistols you should crimp just enough to remove the bell. Crimping more than that does nothing to prevent setback. I will say that again. Crimping does not control bullet setback, the bullet tension is built into the case mouth and this is controlled by the sizing die.

A light bell is all you need on a case. This helps to hold the bullet and guide it into the case. Then crimp to remove the bell.

Besides reloading for personal use, I'm also a licensed ammunition manufacturer.

 

[DWARREN123]

Do you have any rifling marks on the bullets? If not I would then think the case mouth is causing this problem since it is not crimped.

 

[Walkalong]

Crimping on a pistol cartridge does nothing to prevent bullet setback. It is prevented by the sizing die properly setting the neck tension. For auto pistols you should crimp just enough to remove the bell. Crimping more than that does nothing to prevent setback. I will say that again. Crimping does not control bullet setback, the bullet tension is built into the case mouth and this is controlled by the sizing die.

A light bell is all you need on a case. This helps to hold the bullet and guide it into the case. Then crimp to remove the bell.

freakshow10MM is absolutely right here. I have argued this point myself here. (especially in Lee FCD threads)

Odd. I can't imagine a XTP seated @ 1.230 being too long.

Agreed, the throat would have to be quite short, but it is possible.

You can often get away with no expansion with jacketed bullets if everything works out just right, but it is generally a good idea to use your expander, even if you polish it down some. Then just a light Taper crimp.

Try taking out your barrel and slipping a loaded round into it.

 

[rcmodel]

Many "Match" 1911 barrels have very short leades in them, designed to best fit 230 grain FMJ-RN GI ball. The SIG 220 may also.

Others have a longer leade intended for more modern bullet shapes like the XTP.

Your best bet is to smoke a loaded round with a candle flame, then drop it in the barrel and see whats rubbing where.

(Take the barrel out of the gun and use it to chamber-check the ammo.)

If the XTP is contacting the leade, you will have to seat it deeper until it stops doing that!

rcmodel

 

[D. Manley]

If the problem barrel will chamber factory 230 grain ball and not the XTP @ 1.23, you can just about bet the problem is other than OAL. At 1.23 the XTP comes nowhere near coming as close to the lands as does the FMJ at 1.26 (OEM length) factory loads. I'm betting this turns out to be brass related, one way or the other.

 

[Tank45]

Okay I smoked a loaded round and did the chamber check as mentioned. To me it looks like the bullet is indeed in contact with the leade. If this is the problem, do I adjust so the depth is just past the leade? Below is a pic of the smoked bullet with the marks. Let me know what you think. Thanks.

 

[rcmodel]

Short Leade.

Seat it deeper until it will drop in the chamber all the way flush with the back of the barrel hood.

rcmodel

 

[D. Manley]

Tank45, if that does indeed turn out to be your problem, please post the OAL you end up using to get "clear". That looks like a really short leade, I'd never a thunk' it with that bullet...

 

[Tank45]

I'm going to try them at 1.21. I reduced the powder charge to 5.5 of Unique. Hopefully these work alright.

 

[ForneyRider]

I use 1.21 OAL for the XTP 230gr. in my 1911. Works great!

.469-.471 for the width with mixed brass.

 

[rcmodel]

That looks like a really short leade, I'd never a thunk' it with that bullet...

Perfectly normal for a real "National Match" 1911 match barrel chamber.

The 230 GI JRN hardball bullet starts rounding off right at the case mouth and will clear it.
But it will also be perfectly aligned with the bore by it.

Wad-cutters and truncated cone bullets like the XTP won't, unless you run a throating reamer in there and lengthen the leade.

Or seat them deeper.

rcmodel

 

[D. Manley]

Perfectly normal for a real "National Match" 1911 match barrel chamber.

The 230 GI JRN hardball bullet starts rounding off right at the case mouth and will clear it.
But it will also be perfectly aligned with the bore by it.

Wad-cutters and truncated cone bullets like the XTP won't, unless you run a throating reamer in there and lengthen the leade.

Or seat them deeper.

rcmodel

I've been messing with combat pistols way too long, I guess. I would *guess* that a chamber than short would make using a case gauge (instead of barrel drop) on finished rounds a wasted exercise...?

 

[rcmodel]

I suppose it would.

However, the only case guage I own is a .223.

Auto pistols are so easy to get the barrel out of, thats how I check reloads for them.

"Chamber checking" in the actual pistol barrel the ammo is for will always beat someones "standard" case guage.

rcmodel

 

[D. Manley]

"Chamber checking" in the actual pistol barrel the ammo is for will always beat someones "standard" case guage".

No arguement there. My reloading setups are housed away from my guns and I keep a few gauges on my bench for convenience. I've found that "virtually" 100% of the problems I encounter are dinged brass...extractor burrs on the case rim. Some time back I started running my range brass pickups through the EGW U-Dies and case gauging before loading. Since I've been doing that I've not had a single round -not one- fail to gauge after loading. My guns are all combat pistols and I'm yet to have one pass the gauge and fail to chamber but it's common for one to fail the gauge and still chamber just fine. I've learned over time to save any up that fail and barrel-drop them when time permits before doing any pulling, etc. I keep saying that one of these days I'm gonna' get a sure-enough bullseye gun but deep down, I know I still couldn't shoot 'em any better than what I've got.