25 acp or other mouse calibers!

[JT-AR-MG42]

Yep, the Jetfire was a nice pistol and mine was 100% reliable with factory ammo.
I made a great shot with it on a running rooster (chicken) at 20 yds. or so with the W-W 45 gr. expanding ammo
that had the ball point pen look. The rooster staggered and broke stride, but made it into the brush.

Apart from anything else, it did not fit in my hand and was wildly inaccurate.

LOL on the story. Mine is similar with the little Colt. Tended to point at the shoelaces on a target.
Seven shots slow-fire from the hip at 15 yds into full size silhouette. No hits.

I have a bathroom in my bedroom.

Um, ours was built OFF the bedroom, and with a door. But, to each his own.

JT

 

[Sav .250]

Unkei:
Case well made...............

 

[bannockburn]

Had a number of Beretta Jetfires over the years until I finally settled on either a small .380 (like a Colt Mustang or KelTec P3AT), or a J frame size .38 Special (like a S&W Model 638 or Model 649), as the smallest caliber gun I wanted to carry. I do have one .25 (a Baby Browning), mainly because I always wanted one and it was too good of a deal to pass up. Given it's truly diminutive size and caliber, to me though it's more like a collectible item rather than a viable choice for CCW.

 

[CDW4ME]

Goal of defensive handgun is stopping threat ASAP.
Smaller and or lower power calibers have less potential to achieve defensive goal, same shot placement.
I'm not betting my life on the least powerful options.

 

[GBExpat]

... I do have one .25 (a Baby Browning), mainly because I always wanted one and it was too good of a deal to pass up. ...

Yeah ... my cousin has a beooootiful little .25acp Beretta, the look of which I really like. He pocket-carried it for many years. He finally came to me several years ago for some input (and test guns&ammo) regarding upgrading his carry choice. He ended up choosing a pocket-size .380.

The smallest that I carry is a .380 along with a spare mag ... unless the .380 is my Bersa Thunder380Plus (15rd mag). With the 6rd .380s (P3AT, PPK, G42) my mindset is that if I am forced to shoot, there is a good chance that I will be relatively quickly firing all 7 & reloading prior to reassessing the situation.

If I had a S&W Mod.36 (another on my Wish List), I would be comfortable carrying that (plus speedloader), also.

 

[GunnyUSMC]

Goal of defensive handgun is stopping threat ASAP.
Smaller and or lower power calibers have less potential to achieve defensive goal, same shot placement.
I'm not betting my life on the least powerful options.

While going through cancer treatments, I dropped from 170 to 123 lbs in less then two weeks. I was so weak for a while and couldn't even carry my Glock 19. So I packed a small 25 auto. I never leave home without a gun.

 

[il_10]

I carried a beretta 950 for years until I got a P32. I'd upgrade to .380, but my classics include 4 more .32s and no .380s, and I don't consider the two to be that different in effectiveness.

I most often pocket carry a .22 mag of the NAA variety, or the P32, and when I take one step up in cooler weather, I have a 1903 pocket hammerless that I had cut for Novak sights. When I make it back to the car or house I'm pretty good with a 9, .45, 12 gauge, and so on... but I can empty that little colt so quickly and accurately it's unreal, and it just disappears in an IWB.

 

[FL-NC]

I find it particularly telling that LE has probably never issued a firearm in a caliber smaller then 38 in recent history, nor has any military organization.

 

[MedWheeler]

^^ I wouldn't carry any less than a uniformed cop does, either, if my mission were offensive in nature. But constantly comparing the missions of those who chase down and continuously re-engage their adversaries to those who have only the mission to defend and self-extract as quickly as possible should have provided you with some insight regarding the differences. LEOs do not self-extract and flee when encountering the threat the way common criminals typically do; they are required to "keep up the fight." For them, the threat does not end if their adversary flees. They pursue, forcing those adversaries to become a threat again. Far fewer people would be shot by police and soldiers each year if those officers and soldiers simply self-extracted each time they were presented with a threat, but they don't.

If you make it your mission to be a freelance LEO or soldier, then equip yourself accordingly, and work as part of a unit of similarly-equipped and like-minded associates. That's how cops and soldiers work.

 

[CDW4ME]

While going through cancer treatments, I dropped from 170 to 123 lbs in less then two weeks. I was so weak for a while and couldn't even carry my Glock 19. So I packed a small 25 auto. I never leave home without a gun.

That is an extenuating circumstance.
Same for people that have to wear tucked-in dress shirts & pants at work, best they can do may be a 380.
However, when not at work (sick, ect...) one has the choice to dress around a handgun with more "potential".

 

[Unkei]

Sorry Old Dog..just trying to use..what I feel is common sense. Didn’t mean to piss anyone off..well...maybe I did! But I just feel there’s too much emphasis on caliber choice and effectiveness! I’ll go quietly now!
Unkei

 

[denton]

I find it particularly telling that LE has probably never issued a firearm in a caliber smaller then 38 in recent history, nor has any military organization.

.32 was very common for European police for a long time. Then there was the .32 caliber Mosin military revolver.

On a lighter note, in the early novels Bond carried a .25. Someone suggested to Fleming that this was not a very powerful round, so he upgraded Bond to .32. Later on, he got a 9mm.

As many have said, .25 isn't usually the first choice. I think some of the better .22 rounds are probably better. I'd much rather have a 9 or 45. But you fight your battle with what you've got and can carry.

 

[chicharrones]

Before the P32 and P3AT came out I'd accept the .25ACP in guns like the Baby Browning and Beretta Jetfire as the "have a gun" role filler. But now no way. If you need a super small gun get one of these little .380ACP pistols. They are flatter, lighter, and significantly more powerful than any of the little .25ACP pistols.

I've retired my .25ACP pistols to novelty status once guns like the P32 and P3AT cane out -- these days when I don't feel I need to carry a gun I stick my S&W BodyGuard 380 in a pocket.

Agree. Not counting rimfire pocket guns, the 21st century pocket autoloader is usually a .380 ACP.

 

[chicharrones]

I have a bathroom in my bedroom. It's small 5'x4', just a toilet, a sink and a spittoon. If you attack me in my bathroom, you will be shot with a Titian Tiger 25 Auto.

I figured you have something in 8mm Mauser in there with you.

 

[GunnyUSMC]

I figured you have something in 8mm Mauser in there with you.

The bathroom it to small for a rifle. Almost to small for a 4 inch barrel handgun, but perfect for a mouse gun.

 

[george29]

I bought my mom (65 at the time) a Taurus 25 with the pop-up barrel because she was too weak to rack a slide. At the same time I hardened her Chicago, high first floor condo front, back and bedroom door. She always locked herself in the bedroom at night. I told her that if someone was trying to break in her bedroom to just shoot 2-3 through the door and call the police. I have no doubt that in that type of scenario she would have remained safe because no one getting shot at asks "What caliber is that" and the noise from the gunshot even from a 25 inside a tiny condo sounds like a bigger caliber.
Yes, there is room for 25's and 32's in this world otherwise no one would manufacture them. If I had no other choice that's exactly what I would carry but my M&P 340 is lighter and almost as small.

 

[Deltaboy1984]

Yes they will work , back in my college days a Coed stopped a perp with a Marlin 60 and 18 rounds of CCI Stingers!

 

[FL-NC]

.32 was very common for European police for a long time. Then there was the .32 caliber Mosin military revolver.

On a lighter note, in the early novels Bond carried a .25. Someone suggested to Fleming that this was not a very powerful round, so he upgraded Bond to .32. Later on, he got a 9mm.

As many have said, .25 isn't usually the first choice. I think some of the better .22 rounds are probably better. I'd much rather have a 9 or 45. But you fight your battle with what you've got and can carry.

I don't count euro police or Russians and what they carried a long time ago as currently relevant, any more than a fictional character. Also, I don't consider carrying a gun that often fails on critters like foxes, feral cats, etc. when fired from a RIFLE as a responsible choice for carry, at least not for an able bodied person who has access to more effective equipment.

 

[NIGHTLORD40K]

I find it particularly telling that LE has probably never issued a firearm in a caliber smaller then 38 in recent history, nor has any military organization.

I know its not recent, but I believe the Paris cops were issued .25s just prior to WW2.
Myself, I've only owned one, a Colt 1903 Vest Pocket. Kept it in a small drawer in my tool box when my shop was in a rough neighborhood and shady folks would commonly just walk right through! Wasn't practical to carry in my uniform, but I was never more than a few steps from it- none of my .380s was small enough.
The Vest Pocket was reliable enough, but.......only if you gave it a Kung Fu grip. It proved the old adage that the smaller the gun, the tighter it must be held- to give the recoiling slide a stable platform to recoil against.
Unfortunately, in a SD scenario, where you may not be able to take a textbook Weaver stance or might be struggling for the weapon, that was enough to make me replace it when I could with a 9mm.

 

[FL-NC]

I know its not recent, but I believe the Paris cops were issued .25s just prior to WW2.
Myself, I've only owned one, a Colt 1903 Vest Pocket. Kept it in a small drawer in my tool box when my shop was in a rough neighborhood and shady folks would commonly just walk right through! Wasn't practical to carry in my uniform, but I was never more than a few steps from it- none of my .380s was small enough.
The Vest Pocket was reliable enough, but.......only if you gave it a Kung Fu grip. It proved the old adage that the smaller the gun, the tighter it must be held- to give the recoiling slide a stable platform to recoil against.
Unfortunately, in a SD scenario, where you may not be able to take a textbook Weaver stance or might be struggling for the weapon, that was enough to make me replace it when I could with a 9mm.

Interesting, but I don't think what paris cops carried way back then is relevant in the here and now. Also, remember how WW2 worked out for them.

 

[Old Dog]

Sorry Old Dog..just trying to use..what I feel is common sense. Didn’t mean to piss anyone off..well...maybe I did! But I just feel there’s too much emphasis on caliber choice and effectiveness! I’ll go quietly now!
Unkei

Gosh, no apology necessary, don't think you pissed anyone off ... Just wondering what prompted your original post is all, since, as I said (and I'm usually fairly attentive to the chatter on the internet firearms boards) I haven't seen much in the way of "caliber wars" in some time, so I was wondering if I missed something ...

But, speaking of common sense ... my feeling has always been that most folks carry guns knowing the chances are slim they'll ever have to use 'em, but if one is to carry a gun, one should carry one in an effective caliber and not take any chances should the day ever come ... Plenty of dead guys got dead subsequent to getting shot by mouseguns, but frankly, I'm not gonna take the chance in the apparent belief that I'm guaranteed to be that 1 out of 20 or 1 out of 50 or 1 out of 100 guys that actually gets lucky defending himself with an inferior caliber. I know the track record of these small calibers, hence I will always try to make sure the odds are stacked in my favor.

 

[kBob]

Gunny,

When my best bud's splean got x3 as large as normal and his hair fell out and he worked in a no carry place he carried a 950 in .22 short. Usually in a wallet holster. He practiced often. Sometimes drawing and firing on an orange suspended face high at two meters and sometimes laying right up at the back stop drawing from the ground and doing a fast as possible mag dump at a target on a stand touching his feet. Not sure where he would get shorts now if he were alive. His shooting from the ground like he had been knocked down did get a lot of attention.

My Dad carried a Bernadelli .25 ACP with the short mag in a front trouser pocket UNHOLSTERED but with the chamber empty for years. Baby sister currently has it but keeps it in her night stand more as a keep sake than anything else.

Had a Girl Friend (yes, capitals I at least was serious) with a Baur .25 that used it to foil an assault that began with her being knocked from her bike. She carried hip pocket, no holster, empty chamber she went down, guy verbally threatened her (like the physical assault was not enough) gun came out and he went away. After that I did get her a .38SPL though she did not like carrying it and frequently continued to carry the Baur.

For a bit when I went deep I carried an Ortgies .25 (front pocket or jacket pocket, in sheath, chamber empty but cocked, I can charge it one handed that way) and still frequently pocket a M21A .22LR (Front pocket, sheath, set up DA and safed but round in chamber, and yes 40 grain solids)though prefer my little P32 in a sheath loaded FMJ and DA. In the past year I have also carried .38 SPL snubbie five shot, Colt Officers model, PT 911, CZ75 and Series70 Mark IV but the all the time guns are mouse guns. I am comfortable with that despite some resident experts.

FL-NC, When my 950 Bud was not at work his small guns were a P35 in a shoulder holster or a Colt Officers model IWB or Charter Bull dog in a coat pocket......but 8 to ten hours a day he carried that little 950. Beat the heck out of not having a gun.

-kBob

 

[Rudolph31]

My opinion of the .25 was formed before there was an internet. In a book by Jeff Cooper he said the .22 is more effective and the best he could say for it was that it was better than nothing.

For years I carried a .32 Kel Tec for the same reasons outlined above— I’m not a cop and I can shoot and run away. But Ferguson MO is only a few miles away, and that debacle where the “Gentle Giant” absorbed 6 rounds of .40 S&W while determined to kill a cop made me rethink. Drug addled people don’t act rationally, so when I can I carry something bigger.

 

[Unkei]

Gosh, no apology necessary, don't think you pissed anyone off ... Just wondering what prompted your original post is all, since, as I said (and I'm usually fairly attentive to the chatter on the internet firearms boards) I haven't seen much in the way of "caliber wars" in some time, so I was wondering if I missed something ...

But, speaking of common sense ... my feeling has always been that most folks carry guns knowing the chances are slim they'll ever have to use 'em, but if one is to carry a gun, one should carry one in an effective caliber and not take any chances should the day ever come ... Plenty of dead guys got dead subsequent to getting shot by mouseguns, but frankly, I'm not gonna take the chance in the apparent belief that I'm guaranteed to be that 1 out of 20 or 1 out of 50 or 1 out of 100 guys that actually gets lucky defending himself with an inferior caliber. I know the track record of these small calibers, hence I will always try to make sure the odds are stacked in my favor.

Yeah..I’m with you on carrying a weapon that will make a bigger hole..hence my 44 Specials, my 45 Colts and my 45 acp Colt 1911s! And it really wasn’t anything said here lately. But..I have a bunch of mouseguns, the Beretta, 4..soon to be 5 NAA Revolvers, and a Sig P238, which, while a 380, still ranks as a mousegun to me! And on most any forum....people seem to think that if the number does not start with a 4 or better, its a piece of crap! And to this day...retired and 70 years old...I still am not overly impressed with the 9mm platform. Each to their own! When I was a cop..I felt that our issue duty weapon, a S&W 5906 in 9mm was not a wonder weapon! Always carried a backup!
Unkei

 

[Guitarmike]

My opinion of the .25 was formed before there was an internet. In a book by Jeff Cooper he said the .22 is more effective and the best he could say for it was that it was better than nothing.

For years I carried a .32 Kel Tec for the same reasons outlined above— I’m not a cop and I can shoot and run away. But Ferguson MO is only a few miles away, and that debacle where the “Gentle Giant” absorbed 6 rounds of .40 S&W while determined to kill a cop made me rethink. Drug addled people don’t act rationally, so when I can I carry something bigger.View attachment 767357

I do not have the money to buy a lot of guns. I own one ccw pistol. It is a Ruger American 9mm, full sized, 17 round magazine. Too many bad guys are souped up on dope of some kind and are not going to run away when they see your gun. They will keep coming until you stop them. If I am caught up in a bad situation I want as much as possible in my favor. If it happens to you, you do not know how you will react, you’ll probably be lucky to hit the side of a barn much less worry about shot placement. I think you are at less risk with a higher power/caliber gun, especially if you have to pull the trigger.