Common and less common calibers that no longer have a real reason to exists anymore..

[BCRider]

Ya know.... if this was the dawn of the cartridge era and if semis and revovlers were developing in tandem and if everyone was to sit down and decide to come up with a nice range of steps for cartridges then your list may have some sense to it. But if that was the case we'd likely only see 3 to 5 different graduated sizes and common barrel bores between semi and revolver. Likely something like .20, .30, .40 and .45 would provide a nice range of sizes to handle everything. Junior shooters or folks going after varmints with the .20 size. Smaller concealables with decent hitting power with the .30. More serious stopping power full frame guns with the .40. And finally handgun hunting or other big jobs with the .45 size. In each case the casings would be sized to provide room for the powder to do the job. The .20 would be in the same power range as our present .22LR, the 30 would be a 9mm/.32ACP equivalent, the .40 would be in the .40S&W/10mm range and the .45 would be sized to provide up to the present .44Mag level of power with the oversize casing to suit. All cases would be rimless and revolvers would be set up with a combo of headspacing and snap action spider or some way to use moon clips easily to catch the rim grooves for ejection.

... but then someone would come along with the desire for a big bore hand cannon and want to build and sell a .55 handgun cartridge and mess up all the planning. Then someone else would see the market for a stretched .30 case and there goes all the planning. Then someone else would......

But this isn't the case and we've got a plethora of cartridges and guns that shoot them. So your list is nothing more than your own thoughts based on your own usage. It completely ignores the fact that others have different priorities. Not to mention that there's so many guns in existence and in regular use that are chambered for these obsolete, by your definition, cartridges. There's a surprising amount of folks that ENJOY using .45LC. Why would you ask them to dump their guns in favour of some other cartridge? To them it's a tie in with history to be able to use those.

And let's not forget cost either. If I could buy .357Mag rounds for my revolvers that are the same cost as I'm paying for .38Spl instead of typically twice or more the price I'd be all for that. Assuming I could buy downloaded ammo rather than plink or shoot in matches with full on magnums. But it ain't the case. And for those of us that DO shoot in matches and go through hundreds of rounds a month the cost issue will keep the cheaper "obselete" rounds alive for a long time to come. And rightly so. What makes a good cartridge is not just the stopping power. Lots of us do not shoot for self defense but for fun.

I was pretty sure this was all tongue in cheek from the get go. But you could have picked on some far more obscure rounds as your targets.... .45ACP? SHEESH ! ! ! !

 

[Slamfire]

38 Special

The much more powerful and effective 357 Magnum in various loading (from soft to hard) is available in any 38 Special revolver size, included snubnose...why bother??


45 LC

Reason: In its "normal" form (not the nuclear loads...and for that you can always get a .454 Casull or a 44 Magnum) the only reason to be around is nostalgia and Cowboy action shooting.

Dem's Fightin Words!

And you forgot to Diss the 44 Special!

I don't need or want a magnum for everything. In fact, I shoot for pleasure, not for the recoil.

The 38 Special is extremely accurate. I find that I am dragging my M10-5 to the range more and more because the recoil is mild and it shoots well out to fifty yards. (the furthest distance I shoot with a handgun)

The 45LC is a very well balanced cartridge. Pushes a big bullet at low pressures, but it still has plenty of thump on target. For those who want an effective big bore handgun, without having the equivalent of a bomb going off infront of their face, a 45LC is an excellent choice.

 

[saturno_v]

SlamFire...

The 44 Special it's ok...it has amanageable recoil and it has enough power to be a good HD round...on top of that you can use it in the very common 44 Mag revolver...

I guess I should have left the 45 LC alone ....after all you can use it in a 454 Casull and 460 S&W Mag....

All the calibers above the 44 Mag are not mentioned as "not very useful" because they are as appropriate hunting rounds...

 

[Big_John1961]

I'll give up my .32 & .380 ACP when someone makes a pistol the size of my Seecamps in 9mm, and one that is halfway shootable. A lot of people buy pistols in both calibers, so I highly doubt either is going anywhere any time soon. Talk all you want about ballistics and stopping power, the "power" of a true mouse gun lies in its close-quarters effectiveness and the fact that you can just drop it in your pocket. I ALWAYS have mine with me. Enough said on that.

And I wonder if all the BG's shot dead with the .380 and the venerable .32 ACP would agree about the "ineffectiveness" of either round.

 

[CWL]

I have been in the house of a lady that could afford nothing more than a .25 ACP to protect her and her 2 kids. Why do you want to pass judgment on other people's decisions?

 

[Cowboybootnut]

sm,

You need to copy write this;

We often get caught up in the latest and greatest, and wrinkle our noses at the past.

However, when there is no power, no new technology, the number two pencil, sharpened by a pocketknife , which was sharpened freehand , will still write on a scrap of paper, no matter where.
Be this up in space, in a hot and humid enviroment, or one with sub zero temps.

The old manual typewriter will still type a letter, address an envelope, and with postage stamp will still allow for communications with another.

Sometimes I wonder, if we are progressing forward or progressing backwards?


For a topic that stirs up a lot of crap, there is still a lot of info here.

I only see one cartridge that was is and will always be useless;

.45 GAP

 

[ugaarguy]

Yes that XD has 13 rounds...I guess what is the grip size of that thing...and it is only one model.

Here are a few more for you:
Para P-12 - 12 rounds .45 ACP, slightly smaller than a Glock 23
Para P-14 - 14 rounds .45 ACP, slightly larger than a Glock 22
Kimber Pro Ten II / Bul Transmark M5 - 12 rounds .45 ACP, roughly the same size as a Glock 23
Kimber Custom Ten II / Bul Transmark M5 - Same capacity as above, traditional 5" 1911 bbl.
FN FNP-45 - 14 rounds .45 ACP, roughly the same size as a Glock 21, but much smaller grip circumference.
Taurus PT845 - 12 rounds .45 ACP, roughly the same size as a Glock 23.

The issue with .45 ACP size:capacity issues is poor engineering, not the round itself. The double stack 1911s, and the SA XD-45 proved this. Taurus and FN have followed suit.

I do agree with you that .45 GAP is useless. The cartridge is the best illustration of the massive engineering failure at Glock. They couldn't engineer a decent sized .45 ACP pistol with decent capacity. Instead they re-engineered the cartridge to fit their .40 S&W frame, and in the process came out with pistols which have pitiful capacity for size. The cartridge is only holding onto life because Gaston's ego won't the cartridge with his name on it die; so he's practically giving away .45 GAP Glocks to state LE agencies to keep it alive.

Okay, .45 GAP rant mode off now.

 

[Gryffydd]

The issue with .45 ACP size:capacity issues is poor engineering, not the round itself.

Bingo. Springfield/HS managed to create a pistol that matches the Glock 21 in capacity but has a grip anyone can use well. There is no good reason for the 2x4 grip.

 

[BlindJustice]

Saturno V

frequently uses

as an example

...10% expansion is not going to mean nothing in a human size target..

Ah so use of the DOuble negative, either
means you're saying the opposite or
revealing your lack of education and intelligence?


A 4.5" Glock Polygonal riflilng is going to be pretty close to a
5" BBl. with conventional rifling

R-

 

[Gryffydd]

A 4.5" Glock Polygonal riflilng is going to be pretty close to a
5" BBl. with conventional rifling

An excellent point

Ah so use of the DOuble negative, either
means you're saying the opposite or
revealing your lack of education and intelligence?

There's no need for that. There's plenty of factual mistakes or exaggerations to go after, no need for personal attacks.

 

[saturno_v]

revealing your lack of education and intelligence?

Did I ever waste everybody time picking your typos??

Since when a typo or a grammatical error means lack of intelligence??

Your remark, instead, means just that....

By the way, I can express myself, decently, in 4 languages...what about you??

A 4.5" Glock Polygonal riflilng is going to be pretty close to a
5" BBl. with conventional rifling

Your assumption....

 

[Gryffydd]

Your assumption....

It's a widely known fact that polygonal rifling gives higher velocity. Given that we're talking 20-30fps difference in that half an inch it's not like we're looking for much. From what I've read a difference of about 5% can be expected. That's more than enough to cover that gap.

 

[Big_John1961]

This thread, like so many other caliber debates, is pointless. Any properly placed round used in a self defense scenario can be effective. People will use what they use and decide which compromises they are willing to make. And there will always be compromises when it come to selecting a handgun caliber.

And using a double-negative in a sentence is not a typographical error. It's just ignorance of proper usage. As is using two question marks at the end of a sentence.

 

[saturno_v]

It's a widely known fact that polygonal rifling gives higher velocity. Given that we're talking 20-30fps difference in that half an inch it's not like we're looking for much. From what I've read a difference of about 5% can be expected. That's more than enough to cover that gap.

Polygonal rifling can surely help especially with some bullet construction...however is not always the case....i personally saw Ruger pistols .40 shooting faster (same round and same barrel length) of Glocks..

The ultimate test would be same barrel length, same rifling pattern, same bullet style between the stoutest 45 and 40 loads...and see who comes at the top...even if a couple of dozen ft/lb of advantage for either one is totally meaningless...for all practical purposes the 2 rounds are equivalent.

 

[saturno_v]

And using a double-negative in a sentence is not a typographical error. It's just ignorance of proper usage. As is using two question marks at the end of a sentence.

Never said it was a typo...I clearly said it was a mistake..and everybody uses smileys and multiple question or exclamation marks in this forums...as far as I know this is not the Writer's Guild....

English is not my native language, by the way, so once in a while I still make some mistakes here and there....still less that many native speakers....I saw some really appalling writing in this forum but I'm intelligent enough to focus on the message and I never point it out.....However, in how many other languages can you express yourself as good as I can in English?? I guess not many....

This is usually what dim-witted people resort when they have no argument left anymore..it never fails...

 

[Dazen]

I want a Buck Rogers Sonic Ray Gun!

 

[BCRider]

Folks, folks, folks, with a topic like this thread the idea is obviously to exchange some banter and pass some time talking about something we all enjoy. Cool off and either ignore it or play the game. But there's no need to start up personal attacks just because the topic doesn't agree with your own philosophy. Doing so isn't very High Road..... /rant off

Hell, if anyone has a right to gripe it's ME because Saturno didn't deign to respond to MY post... yet....

I think it all comes down to the idea that there's more to shooting than just home or self defense, odd a concept as that may seem to some. These may be weapons but like swords and archery before it firearms long ago grew beyond tools of warfare and hunting and became a sport. As a sport there's room for more than just a few key calibers and cartridges because there's more than one flavour of FUN.

 

[Deltaboy1984]

25 yes the rest heck NO

 

[Reid73]

there's more to shooting than just home or self defense

Amen!!!

using a double-negative in a sentence is not a typographical error. It's just ignorance of proper usage.

Not hardly. I could care less. You don't know nothing!

 

[Gryffydd]

i could care less.

ahhhh my pet peeve

 

[BlindJustice]

Saturno V - sorry bout the snark on myh part,

Hey, I blew away a wasps nest at the entrance
to my south facing deck about an hour ago I had a
wood ramp there so it's a no step down. I tossed it
onto the lawn and hit it with the hose, don't know what
caliber it was,didn't hve time to check I closed the door

Stupid wasps are hovering around where their nest used
to be located.

VICTORY!!!

Randall - Hey, I'm retired - it was something to do

 

[Art Eatman]

Enuf of this snark.

saturno v, we have folks posting at THR who're born and raised in the U.S. and gone to school here. They've no excuse, but I swear they'd flunk out of ESL* classes.

* ESL: English as a Second Language.