Mouse guns...Love ‘em or hate ‘em?

[Kleanbore]

But with training, could do very well at fast shooting targets and even better shooting fast. Maybe that K6 will give you a idea of what I am talking about. Provided of course you do start to train with it.

Not I.

The mechanical advantage limitations of the J-Frame's mechanical geometry, the low mass or the frame, and my tendon strength prevent that.

With a single-stack 9mm semi-auto with a better trigger, better grip, and longer barrel, I am fine.

And the pistol is easy to conceal as that 642.

 

[Jeb Stuart]

My M60 is not a target gun but I can fire 5 Shot - 5 Yard groups the size of a golf ball at a 1.0 second per shot pace. I haven't had it long though. Hopefully I will improve.

Great Job!! And I guarantee you will keep getting better and better as time goes on. I think you will even surprise yourself. I know I did. And a lot of self enjoyment comes with that frequent shooting and training.

 

[JERRY]

how big has the "mouse gun" become anyway? I keep seeing the envelope stretched like a Kel-tec P32 then somebody says that this or that is only a little bigger. the problem with that is we can this or that is only a little bit bigger until we have a Colt Officers 1911.

 

[94045]

how big has the "mouse gun" become anyway? I keep seeing the envelope stretched like a Kel-tec P32 then somebody says that this or that is only a little bigger. the problem with that is we can this or that is only a little bit bigger until we have a Colt Officers 1911.

I don't really know. Traditionally they were basically the .25 ACP guns but guns like P3AT and LCP are getting down into what was traditionally Mouse Gun size.

If you can chamber a Mouse Gun in a Rat Caliber does that disqualify it?

 

[JERRY]

I don't really know. Traditionally they were basically the .25 ACP guns but guns like P3AT and LCP are getting down into what was traditionally Mouse Gun size.

If you can chamber a Mouse Gun in a Rat Caliber does that disqualify it?

if you put 3 rounds of 9mm in to a P32 sized and weight gun I'd still call it a mouse gun. as much as it is for caliber, the size is what matters as well.

 

[jimbo555]

Lol, All I can say about that comment is, Man I love the internet. By the way, spent a good deal of time with the Sig. Nice gun, but I prefer the CM9. In fact after shooting the Sig, went out and bought three other Micro 9mms. And one of them was a second CM9. And by the way, your comparisons are way off. The PM9, and the Sig365 are not even close to the same size in weight. And if you think millions are throwing their Snubs in the trash all because the Sig 365 came out, then you are kidding your own self. Good luck with that though.

Look up the specs, I own them both. They are nearly exact in size and weight. The biggest difference is capacity.

 

[Trey Veston]

Look up the specs, I own them both. They are nearly exact in size and weight. The biggest difference is capacity.

I already posted an actual comparison chart and the P365 is bigger in every aspect. Not much, but it is bigger... I wouldn't claim it's not even close as Jeb Stuart did, but he is technically correct, Still, I'd carry the P365...

 

[Jeb Stuart]

Trey I reposted and clearly said I MEANT the 380 compared to the 365 and they are not close to the same size. I guess you and Jim missed that. I own both the 380 and the 9mm. Not Close in any regard.

I think if the Sig 365 is your perfect fit then that is fantastic. The 365 was not a good fit for myself and I actually prefer the Kahr and the Beretta Nano. Both fit my hand better, shoot better, handle better and carrying 8-9 rounds of ammo is more than enough for me. I like the triggers better. The 365 was a horrible fit for me. The Narrow grip to receiver was not going to work. I actually had more room for my offhand with my Beretta Pico. I am more than happy. But I am talking about my preferences. Yours can be totally different. You might feel the complete opposite. Great!
And more than happy Jimbo is delighted with his 365. If the 365 is your next carry, then awesome!

Lets not get into a pissing match about which gun is better. This thread has already turned that way already. Live and let live.Find what is best for YOU. I have always said, One shoe does not fit all.

My only suggestion is to try both firearms before you purchase. Then decide which one you feel is best for you.

PS* I also tested along with 4 other experienced shooters the Sig 365 with 1,000 rds. I came out of this test and said the P365 was a very nice firearm. And if it fits your hand then great. I have actually taken up for the pistol when so many were disparaging the gun.

And for the record, we are talking about pocket guns and I will once again post the size of the 365 to a Kahr 380
I do not consider my Kahr CM9, my Nano or the 365 a pocket gun.


Beretta Pico

 

[Jeb Stuart]

To all, Please get back on Track. The OP clearly stated Mouse Guns.
And My Bad, because the OP was talking strictly about Mouse guns. Sorry this thread turned South, became all the nonsense of a different topic of training to pocket size guns and now a pissing match about Micro 9mm's.
My apology to the OP. Sorry to have gotten caught up in the other nonsense.
Maybe we can get back on track. What a shame that folks that do appreciate Mouse guns and Pocket guns on this forum have to always go through this.

Here is the only gun I have which I consider a Mouse gun. At 6 1/2 Ounces, fits just about anywhere and 32.cal with 8 rounds of Underwood plus P.
And I like this gun very much. And I make no apologies for it. If someone hates what I carry then too bad.

 

[ms6852]

I think that the issues we have in agreeing with certain topics are that there are many truths and many perceived truths as well. I believe some of us due to demographics and different surroundings finding a commonailty in our ideas and philosophies is at most difficult to achieve to the exact way of our thinking. For example when we refer to self defense, is a "mouse gun" or a 22lr adequate? We will get a multitude of replies , and the drama will unfold immediately and all reasoning and intellect goes out the window, literally throwing the proverbial baby away with the water. We need to ask ourselves what we perceive to be a successful self defense action. If you ward off an attack on your person or loved one using pepper spray was it a success? If you stop an attack by kicking someone in the groin and stop the immediate threat and attack is that not a success? In both instances you did not pull out a gun but yet the threat was real and it was quelled. I for one carry a large caliber firearm 98% of the time and the other percentage I adjust to the activity. We can make references to the mafia using 22's all the time for hits and I can also reference that in the trauma center I worked, many victims were bludgeoned to death with baseball bats.

The point is that there are a multitude of tools that can be used for self defense but I believe that all of us have a different mind set as to what constitutes a successful thwarting of an attack on oneself. Do you consider it necessary to kill the threat to just fend off the attack? So depending on what your philosophy and what you define as a success, than I can see if you want to kill some one in defending your self than I see the logic where a bigger gun will get the job done more efficiently than a smaller caliber gun. If you feel that just stopping the attack is enough, regardless if the attacker survives or not, than a kick in the groin, pepper spray, a baseball bat or a mouse gun does the job as well as other items that are at your disposal . We just need to define what we consider a successful defense and train that way. I for one don't want blood on my hands but am ready to do what is necessary . There are numerous scenarios that can unfold but it is not necessary to use extreme measures all the time. I wonder how much fear comes into play where we feel that carrying only a specific tool is what will provide the safe haven we seek. Your greatest weapon is your mind.

 

[jimbo555]

I already posted an actual comparison chart and the P365 is bigger in every aspect. Not much, but it is bigger... I wouldn't claim it's not even close as Jeb Stuart did, but he is technically correct, Still, I'd carry the P365...

As I said, the biggest difference is capacity.

 

[Kleanbore]

If you feel that just stopping the attack is enough, regardless if the attacker survives or not, than a kick in the groin, pepper spray, a baseball bat or a mouse gun does the job as well as other items that are at your disposal .

the spray, the kick, or the mouse gun may well not suffice.

The gun is for deadly force, and the use of the bat may be so deemed.

By the way, the objective of "just stopping the attack" is the only thing that one can lawfully justify, should it come to that after attempting avoidance.

Of course, the attacker may expire.

 

[whatnickname]

To all, Please get back on Track. The OP clearly stated Mouse Guns.
And My Bad, because the OP was talking strictly about Mouse guns. Sorry this thread turned South, became all the nonsense of a different topic of training to pocket size guns and now a pissing match about Micro 9mm's.
My apology to the OP. Sorry to have gotten caught up in the other nonsense.
Maybe we can get back on track. What a shame that folks that do appreciate Mouse guns and Pocket guns on this forum have to always go through this.

Here is the only gun I have which I consider a Mouse gun. At 6 1/2 Ounces, fits just about anywhere and 32.cal with 8 rounds of Underwood plus P.
And I like this gun very much. And I make no apologies for it. If someone hates what I carry then too bad.

View attachment 882656 View attachment 882657

I’m sorry to have stirred up such a squabble with this one. Should have known better I guess. Made the mistake of constructing a poll the other day on a limited number of what I termed “pocket pistols”, along with a disclaimer and an apology for omitting someone’s weapon of choice. That really got nasty including getting called out by a moderator. I really need to re-think my participation on THR...it’s not worth what it’s doing to my blood pressure. I promise this thread was intended as an innocuous question with me wanting to know what folks termed mouse guns and whether or not they liked them.

 

[Styx]

I’m sorry to have stirred up such a squabble with this one. Should have known better I guess. Made the mistake of constructing a poll the other day on a limited number of what I termed “pocket pistols”, along with a disclaimer and an apology for omitting someone’s weapon of choice. That really got nasty including getting called out by a moderator. I really need to re-think my participation on THR...it’s not worth what it’s doing to my blood pressure. I promise this thread was intended as an innocuous question with me wanting to know what folks termed mouse guns and whether or not they liked them.

Expect the same reactions no matter which firearm forum you try to escape to. To THR's defense, it's usually the same small handful of opinionated mods and members, including me sometimes, who stir up the pot.

 

[somethingbenign]

I’m sorry to have stirred up such a squabble with this one. Should have known better I guess. Made the mistake of constructing a poll the other day on a limited number of what I termed “pocket pistols”, along with a disclaimer and an apology for omitting someone’s weapon of choice. That really got nasty including getting called out by a moderator. I really need to re-think my participation on THR...it’s not worth what it’s doing to my blood pressure. I promise this thread was intended as an innocuous question with me wanting to know what folks termed mouse guns and whether or not they liked them.

Pocket pistols always have this effect. In fact the thing I hate most about pocket pistols isn't the recoil or capacity, it is how it gets everyone riled up. Hang around the revolver, hunting, and reloading sections things are much calmer. Rifle and shotgun sections are fairly calm too but anything that can be interpreted as "serious defensive use" it seems to ruffle some feathers. THR is actually better than most forums and this all makes me understand how gun owners as a whole have such a negative image with the general public.

 

[whatnickname]

Pocket pistols always have this effect. In fact the thing I hate most about pocket pistols isn't the recoil or capacity, it is how it gets everyone riled up. Hang around the revolver, hunting, and reloading sections things are much calmer. Rifle and shotgun sections are fairly calm too but anything that can be interpreted as "serious defensive use" it seems to ruffle some feathers. THR is actually better than most forums and this all makes me understand how gun owners as a whole have such a negative image with the general public.

Roger that. All but one of the pistols on my list are carried in my right front pocket in a De Santis pocket holster. Silly me! I should have known these are NOT pocket pistols!

 

[somethingbenign]

Roger that. All but one of the pistols on my list are carried in my right front pocket in a De Santis pocket holster. Silly me! I should have known these are NOT pocket pistols!

Well pocket is such a subjective standard anyways. A pistol for my work pants are very different then say anything my wife wears, not sure if even a NAA revolver would fit in those! My general understanding has been that pocket/mouse guns are LCP sized and smaller but each person has different circumstances. I can fit my RAMI in the cargo pocket of my work pants and it isn't too noticable, easy to assume I is a pocket of screws or something.

 

[scaatylobo]

I like AND carry "mouse guns" ,but only as a BUG and then it might be the third and its in my pocket as is my hand !.

I own a Beretta .25,Seecamp .32,Beretta.22 short,And a 'few' derringers of a few calibers.

My favorite 'mouse gun' is the High Standard O/U .22 magnum derringers that are double action.

in my not so humble opinion,they are THE perfect pocket surprise,and btw they are VERY accurate [ not that at the range I would use them,it would matter ].

 

[george29]

Mouse gun in pocket is worth more than a Bear gun not available.
I've faced 3 assailants at 2am trying to open the community mailbox with crowbars that's just off my property. Anyone that knows NM knows we are a Dark State, very few street lights except in the bigger cities. I had my NAA 22m because I "only" ran down to Walmart to get a few things. You can bet I wished I had something more substantial at the time. I just stayed in my truck and after a quick staring contest, they wished me a Merry-Christmas (not the actual 2 words they used) and drove off.
Mouse guns have one advantage, it's on you but I've since learned that my Mouse is now a M&P340. The saying is true, no one wished for a smaller gun when they needed a gun.

 

[JTHunter]

Colt Junior, .25 ACP, NIB when I inherited it 20 years ago.

 

[george29]

I’m sorry to have stirred up such a squabble with this one. Should have known better I guess. Made the mistake of constructing a poll the other day on a limited number of what I termed “pocket pistols”, along with a disclaimer and an apology for omitting someone’s weapon of choice. That really got nasty including getting called out by a moderator. I really need to re-think my participation on THR...it’s not worth what it’s doing to my blood pressure. I promise this thread was intended as an innocuous question with me wanting to know what folks termed mouse guns and whether or not they liked them.

I was like you once, sort of provocative, took things a bit personally, and on that previous thread I called your reply to another member (who just happened to be a mod) snarky.
Let me tell you, in the past, and any mod can back this up, I've been warned on a number of my threads and yes, sometimes I took it personally but after a self imposed break I came back and decided to be less confrontational but also more thick skinned.
I think your posts so far are fine, I like being challenged and by the look of things I'm not alone, that's how we learn. Just, don't take things personally, not everyone writes exactly what they mean all the time and it can cause confusion. As I said, as armed individuals we have to be more polite than the Lib anti's that troll us, that means better internet etiquette than one finds on Lib sites.

 

[Labguy47]

Love them because a gun on you beats one locked in the safe at home.

 

[Kleanbore]

Mouse gun in pocket is worth more than a Bear gun not available.

Absolutely!

I had my NAA 22m because I "only" ran down to Walmart to get a few things.

My choice was a 642, but the thought process was the same. I was "only" going out to shop in a "safe" grocery.

Then I realized that what I would need to defend myself, should the need arise, would not be influenced at all by the situation as I had perceived it before the fact.

Before GCA '68, my choice, had concealed carry been lawful, would have been a Browning .380--the old 1910 FN. Compact and concealable.

I had never put any thought into tactics, and I did not consider the time it would take to disengage that safety. Today that would be a show-stopper.

When CCW was legalized here, I did what most of the people I knew did--I tried a 642 in the pocket of my jeans and bought one. I carried it most of the time.

After shooting it at the the square range quite a bit and signing up for a defensive pistol course, I realized that the trigger pull, the recoil, and the sight radius made it very difficult for me to use it effectively in defensive scenarios.

The clincher was JohnKSa's enlightening post about ammunition capacity.

Intuitively, six or seven rounds may not seem that much more than five, but the way statistics work, they really are. Colt, and the police officers who preferred Colts, understood that seven decades ago.

I acquired a compact 9MM semi-auto that I could use much more effectively, and the capacity is much larger.

It is actually about the same size as the 642.

It doesn't make a good "pocket gun", but it is very easy to conceal and carry all day in an OWB holster, and it is much easier to access quickly than a pocket gun. In a lawful defensive use of force incident, that is extremely important.

Do I "feel comfortable" with it? Not really. Even with training and practice I'm not sure I would get it into action quickly enough and use it effectively enough to successfully defend against two car-jackers coming around the gas pump from opposite directions every time.

Best to know where to refuel and when, and to keep one's head on a swivel.

Might I have used 642 in my pocket successfully in a defensive situation? Sure. But maybe not.

I did stumble into, and stop, a store robbery once when I was carrying it. I didn't actually have to draw. The perp thought better of it when he saw me, and he ran to the getaway car. I still wonder how things might have turned out had he elected to do otherwise.

By the way, for small revolvers, there are now good six-shot models with excellent triggers available. I bought the Kimber, because the Colt was not yet available.

 

[Jeb Stuart]

I look at gun forums in much the same way as I look at the far left. Forums, internet etc. on the far opposite end of the spectrum of the left. There is reality somewhere in the Middle. I considered all the options of the 5 shot revolver as well. And I feel totally comfortable with my skills and the gun. That said, I do carry a 7rd capacity pocket gun and a 8 or 9 rd capacity Micro 9mm which I love to shoot, train with etc. And feel more than comfortable and confident in all areas with these guns.

Personally I do not care what another person carries. And that should be the way things go for everyone. The internet to include forums have really changed over the years. It use to be a person could post pictures of his Pocket Guns, shotguns carry guns, etc. without all the nonsense that goes on today. Now almost a constant attack by some posters. And it was the piece of advice I gave me Son. Stay away from gun forums, don't make the same mistakes I have made. Too easy to get hooked on them. Too many experts, bias, snobbery, and down right BS. And even their gun rights threads have become so politically correct and moderated with Personal Bias that the truth really never comes out.
Not saying I am not in any way as guilty as others, I am. And for that, I apologize. There are better ways to learn about guns. Yes the forums do in many cases present some real knowledge,but that is quickly taking a back seat.
This thread has run it's course. I knew right away when I saw the title to the tread, the usual bashers would attack like flies on a log. And sure enough, it did not take long.

 

[somethingbenign]

signing up for a defensive pistol course,

This actually brings up another complaint of small guns. I've tried to get instruction with them to make the best of the bad situation that is carrying one in the first place. My local instructors refused, one so much as told me being unarmed is better than any gun smaller than a G17. Really killed my faith in my local trainers.

Edit: He said G19, not G17.