SleazyRider
Member
Which Amendment?
Seems to me this is a First Amendment issue, not a Second.
Seems to me this is a First Amendment issue, not a Second.
2nd Amendment issue in my church
- Thread starter GSonnen
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ljnowell
Member
It is in fact an identical situation and I didnt open an anything into anyones religion. I was using anectdotal evidence to show what I would do when faced with a similar experience. My point was to explain that you do not have to be afraid to open your mouth because it is church. Thanks for being so useful in this thread and policing it, you are a virtue.
ljnowell
Member
Thank you kimberfan, too many people here are too quick to jump on a bandwagon. I guess I messed up and said homosexual on a mainly conservative site. The point is the same. Speak up for yourself.
chris in va
Member
I would tell her in no uncertain terms she is to keep her opinions to herself and in no way will publicly embarass my kids again.
If you'll notice, usually I'm way too slow with the lock button.
Good thread, so far. Just a word to the wise.
GSonnen
Member
S.R., I think that is a very bright comment and very true.
I've read through all of this and every comment deserves some recognition.
The thoughts that I have resolved:
1) I don't want my children to think of gun ownership as something they need to keep "hidden" or "secret", yet they need to use some discretion as to how they speak of their family hobby. Our Right to Bear Arms is not a skeleton that needs to be hidden in a closet. I don't think this situation was a lack of discretion on my son's part.
2) I don't want to supercede the authority of my Pastor. He is my friend and a very loyal servant of the Lord. God has called him to lead our church and I have no place second guessing him here at a job he does very well. I like to respect authority where that respect is earned. Out Pastor has earned my respect and loyalty.
3) We don't want to use our children's lack of participation in Sunday School as a token or leverage in the matter. I feel that's passive-aggressive and I don't work that way. Today we did receive several emails from church friends wondering why we didn't attend Bible class or Sunday School yesterday. My wife and I are still attempting to formulate a response that is truthful, but not a source of gossip or ill will.
4) Leaving our church is not an option, unless things got really ugly. We have many friends in the congregation and have spent 10 years here.
5) I feel this is something we will struggle with for a while. All of you have been a source of insight that I appreciate. I'm sorry this is just my second post on THR. I've been a member here for a while, but just read the topics.
Thanks to all.
Go back to the pastor. Tell him you strongly believe in the 5th commandment, honor thy father and mother
Then bring forth these
Clearly, this lady is making it hard for your children to follow the 5th commandment. This stumbling block cannot be allowed to remain in your life...or in their lives.
As a good christian, you have ONE option, and that is to seperate your children from this particular teacher.
This means one of three things.
#1 you find another church
#2 old lady is removed from her position
#3 you pull your kids out of class whenever she teaches.
Ask your pastor if he sees ANY other option that is consistent with what the bible commands.
I suspect he will relent and do some schedule swapping so that your kids never have her as their teacher. I also bet he has a real serious talk with her.
Then bring forth these
Clearly, this lady is making it hard for your children to follow the 5th commandment. This stumbling block cannot be allowed to remain in your life...or in their lives.
As a good christian, you have ONE option, and that is to seperate your children from this particular teacher.
This means one of three things.
#1 you find another church
#2 old lady is removed from her position
#3 you pull your kids out of class whenever she teaches.
Ask your pastor if he sees ANY other option that is consistent with what the bible commands.
I suspect he will relent and do some schedule swapping so that your kids never have her as their teacher. I also bet he has a real serious talk with her.
you talk about not wanting to use your children's absence from sunday school as a means of leverage.
Then don't use it as such, but I still think you are biblically required to remove them until conditions change.
Just don't say 'please change or I will remove my kids'
State 'I feel that the Word of God commands me to remove my children from a place where they are hindered in following God's Commandments, and I MUST remove them. Please understand.'
Really, I don't see this as any different from a sunday school teacher talking about 'It's okay to lie on insurance forms and get more money!'...or a sunday school teacher known to swear a blue streak, etc etc.
Surely, you'd pull your kids from a sunday school where the teacher mentioned that. Your pulling kids from that sundayschool wouldn't be 'leverage' it would simply be a protective act.
Then don't use it as such, but I still think you are biblically required to remove them until conditions change.
Just don't say 'please change or I will remove my kids'
State 'I feel that the Word of God commands me to remove my children from a place where they are hindered in following God's Commandments, and I MUST remove them. Please understand.'
Really, I don't see this as any different from a sunday school teacher talking about 'It's okay to lie on insurance forms and get more money!'...or a sunday school teacher known to swear a blue streak, etc etc.
Surely, you'd pull your kids from a sunday school where the teacher mentioned that. Your pulling kids from that sundayschool wouldn't be 'leverage' it would simply be a protective act.
DHJenkins
Member
What does "draw something you do for fun on the weekends" have to do with bible study?
Sounds like the old bat just wants to be in charge of some kids.
Sounds like the old bat just wants to be in charge of some kids.
Nate1778
Member
Next class have the boy draw targets. 
CoRoMo
Member
Take THE HIGH ROAD approach
James 1:19
My dear brothers, take note of this: Everyone should be quick to listen, slow to speak and slow to become angry,
Proverbs 10:19
When there are many words, transgression is unavoidable, But he who restrains his lips is wise.
Proverbs 16:32
He who is slow to anger is better than the mighty, And he who rules his spirit, than he who captures a city.
Proverbs 17:27
He who restrains his words has knowledge, And he who has a cool spirit is a man of understanding.
Ecclesiastes 7:9
Do not be eager in your heart to be angry, For anger resides in the bosom of fools.
James 4:11
Do not speak against one another, brethren. He who speaks against a brother or judges his brother, speaks against the law and judges the law; but if you judge the law, you are not a doer of the law but a judge of it.
My dear brothers, take note of this: Everyone should be quick to listen, slow to speak and slow to become angry,
Proverbs 10:19
When there are many words, transgression is unavoidable, But he who restrains his lips is wise.
Proverbs 16:32
He who is slow to anger is better than the mighty, And he who rules his spirit, than he who captures a city.
Proverbs 17:27
He who restrains his words has knowledge, And he who has a cool spirit is a man of understanding.
Ecclesiastes 7:9
Do not be eager in your heart to be angry, For anger resides in the bosom of fools.
James 4:11
Do not speak against one another, brethren. He who speaks against a brother or judges his brother, speaks against the law and judges the law; but if you judge the law, you are not a doer of the law but a judge of it.
ohgrady
Member
Which Amendment? None of them
This is conduct between private individuals. The Bill of Rights is about restrictions on the Government to protect individuals from the Government.
If you invited your neighbor to a barbecue and he says something you disagree with, you can tell him to shut up and leave - it's not a First Amendment violation. If your neighbor showed up carrying, you can tell him, not on my property - that's not a Second Amendment violation. If you neighbor has a backpack, you can tell him you intend to search it if he comes in - it's not a Fourth Amendment violation.................
That aside, have others had problems with this teacher? What concerns me is having someone of apparent authority telling your children that guns are evil. That could effect your children's view of you - a child might think if guns are evil and Dad carries a gun, Dad is either involved in evil or is evil. Is this a church that has deacons and elders who play a role in how things operate? Maybe it's time to have a meeting about the teacher and Dad's enjoyment of his 2nd amendment rights?
This is conduct between private individuals. The Bill of Rights is about restrictions on the Government to protect individuals from the Government.
If you invited your neighbor to a barbecue and he says something you disagree with, you can tell him to shut up and leave - it's not a First Amendment violation. If your neighbor showed up carrying, you can tell him, not on my property - that's not a Second Amendment violation. If you neighbor has a backpack, you can tell him you intend to search it if he comes in - it's not a Fourth Amendment violation.................
That aside, have others had problems with this teacher? What concerns me is having someone of apparent authority telling your children that guns are evil. That could effect your children's view of you - a child might think if guns are evil and Dad carries a gun, Dad is either involved in evil or is evil. Is this a church that has deacons and elders who play a role in how things operate? Maybe it's time to have a meeting about the teacher and Dad's enjoyment of his 2nd amendment rights?
Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
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I would specifically request (in writing; a letter) the church to take action to either (a) remove her from duties as sunday school teacher, or (b) instruct her that she is to never again impose her personal views on the children, which happen to inconsistent with the constitution, irrelevant to bible study, and specifically harmful to the psyche of your children. And explain why in great detail. Be very courteous and tactful, but firm. Send copy to pastor, all elders, all deacons.
If it doesn't work the first time, try again with another letter, and then "insist" rather than "request" that one of those actions be taken.
Then failing that, find new church.
P.S. I'm agnostic, if that matters.
If it doesn't work the first time, try again with another letter, and then "insist" rather than "request" that one of those actions be taken.
Then failing that, find new church.
P.S. I'm agnostic, if that matters.
Lou McGopher
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This is something your children will continue to encounter.
The important thing is that they learn your son did nothing wrong, there's no reason to be ashamed, and there's no reason to keep it hush. There is no good reason why they should be "discrete" about the responsible ownership and usage of firearms.
If you teach them to be respectful toward others, to respect themselves, and to have a responsible attitude about firearms, they'll be better equipped to deal with these situations when they encounter them in the future.
As to how to deal with this woman... see how your children feel about her. If they really detest her, then they aren't going to be learning much from her. It may be better to pull them from the class when she rotates in, but you have to weigh that against how they may feel about being separated from the other children in the class, too.
The important thing is that they learn your son did nothing wrong, there's no reason to be ashamed, and there's no reason to keep it hush. There is no good reason why they should be "discrete" about the responsible ownership and usage of firearms.
If you teach them to be respectful toward others, to respect themselves, and to have a responsible attitude about firearms, they'll be better equipped to deal with these situations when they encounter them in the future.
As to how to deal with this woman... see how your children feel about her. If they really detest her, then they aren't going to be learning much from her. It may be better to pull them from the class when she rotates in, but you have to weigh that against how they may feel about being separated from the other children in the class, too.
catspa
Member
I think Yoda and genius are on to something here. I was raised up in a church, backslid in my late teen years, and never came back. But I think this could be a valuable opportunity for your son to learn to deal with anti-2A beliefs held by others.
I think if it was my boy, I'd send him back into her class, having memorized the following sentence:
"Mrs. Smith, my family and I disagree with your belief, and would like to point out that the only reason you can state your anti-gun opinion freely is that people with guns fought and died for your right to do so."
Then I'd hide behind the doorpost and video the look on her face.
Parker
I think if it was my boy, I'd send him back into her class, having memorized the following sentence:
"Mrs. Smith, my family and I disagree with your belief, and would like to point out that the only reason you can state your anti-gun opinion freely is that people with guns fought and died for your right to do so."
Then I'd hide behind the doorpost and video the look on her face.
Parker
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