Quantcast
  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

30-06 or .308 for 1000 yds sniping?

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by Firepower!, Jan 3, 2008.

?

30-06 or .308 for 1000 yds snipping?

Poll closed Feb 2, 2008.
  1. 30-06

    101 vote(s)
    55.5%
  2. .308

    87 vote(s)
    47.8%
Multiple votes are allowed.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Firepower!

    Firepower! member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2008
    Messages:
    723
    30-06 or .308 for 1000 yds snipping?

    I have Remington model 700 for 30-06; and
    HK-91 for .308.

    I am going on south in the country for some desert hunting and target shooting.

    Which do you think is better?
     
  2. Jimmie

    Jimmie Member

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2006
    Messages:
    619
  3. MarshallDodge

    MarshallDodge Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2005
    Messages:
    2,314
    Location:
    Utah, USA
    I would think the Remington is going to be more accurate than the PTR anyway.

    My suggestion would be to benchrest both guns at 100 yards and see how they do on paper.
     
  4. skinewmexico

    skinewmexico Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2006
    Messages:
    2,621
    Location:
    West Texas
    I doubt that an HK-91 is going to shoot to 500 yards with any kind of predictable accuracy. Plus you need a long barrel to get a 308 to remain supersonic at 1000 yards. So I'd say 30-06, unless you want to start from scratch with a modern 1000 yard cartridge.
     
  5. Mr White

    Mr White Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2006
    Messages:
    2,207
    Location:
    Central PA
    If you're looking for an accurate 1000 yd caliber, a 6.5mm is where you want to be. Of the 2 you listed, however, I'd say 30-06 because you can squeeze an extra hundred FPS out of it with 175s.
     
  6. The Annoyed Man

    The Annoyed Man Member

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2007
    Messages:
    596
    Location:
    Grapevine, Texas
    I would say either caliber would be good for 1,000 yards, but I tend to use my scissors for "snipping."

    :D
     
  7. W.E.G.

    W.E.G. Member

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2006
    Messages:
    7,395
    Location:
    all over Virginia
    Only one letter "p" in sniping.

    Use whichever rifle has the best sights.

    There is little difference between the two cartridges.

    A 3mph change in wind velocity will change the point of impact left/right 35 inches at 1000 yards with those guns.

    Good luck with your 1000-yard shooting.
     
  8. cracked butt

    cracked butt Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2003
    Messages:
    6,986
    Location:
    SE Wisconsin
    There are a lot of truths and half-truths in that article.

    For one, the .308 was more accurate in gas operated semiautos available when the .308 was introduced- namely the M1 Garand and M14. The M1 garand is typically more accurate when chambered in the .308 simply because the M1 was not originally designed for the 30-06, but a cartridge more similar to the .308, and the M1 could not use the 30-06 loaded to its full potential, even less so today with better powders available.

    Palma competitors use rifles chambered in .308 simply because they are required to by the rules of the game, not because its any better or worse than a 30-06, also the ammunition used by Palma competitors are not even Ideal loads for long range shooting of the .308.

    1/3 MOA at 600 yards for a 40 shot group? I have a bridge that's for sale.

    The .308 might have a slight edge in accuracy at 1000 yards, but that is pretty much neagted by the fact that a bullet fired from a 30-06 starts out 100fps faster which is enough to make it easier to keep the bullet supersonic out to 1000 yards.
     
  9. oregonhunter

    oregonhunter Member

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2007
    Messages:
    270
    your a sniper eh
     
  10. RIDE

    RIDE Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2006
    Messages:
    199
    Take a look at the .257 Weatherby Mag.
     
  11. BsChoy

    BsChoy Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2005
    Messages:
    1,344
    Location:
    Upstate NY
    There is a guy named Don (USSR) here and on snipershide who has had really ood results from an '06 and RL22 with 190 grain bullets. It is a completely viable option IMHO
     
  12. Roswell 1847

    Roswell 1847 member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2007
    Messages:
    717
    Location:
    East Tennesseee
    The original Match ammunition for use with the M14 was downloaded to the same balistics as the .303 British service cartridge, 170+ grain bullet at around 2,460 FPS.

    Powders used at the time caused a rapid increase in pressures in the 7.62X51 Nato case as bullet weights approached those of the heaviest .30/06 loadings.
    To ahceive the same ballistics of the .303 round the Nato round generated about 10% higher pressures.
     
  13. USSR

    USSR Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2005
    Messages:
    8,573
    Location:
    Finger Lakes Region of NY
    Well, if you look strictly at the two rifles mentioned, it's a no-brainer; the Remington 700 being a boltgun, will shoot rings around an HK-91. If you look strictly at the two catridges in comparable bolt action rifles, I would take the .30-06 for 1k shots (and I have both .308 and .30-06 sniper rifles and shoot regularly at 1000 yards). Here is why: when you are shooting at 1k, the biggest factor is the wind. Assuming you have an accurate rifle, ballistics is everything. With the .30-06, you can drive 190gr SMK's (BC of .533) at 2900fps and cut somewhat into the wind. The .308 simply cannot match the .30-06 with velocity and heavy, high BC bullets. Oh, and Jimmie, that article is 10 years old and based on nearly 50 year old data. With the slower burning powders we have today, and not being forced to load the '06 to pressures suitable to a M1 Garand, the '06 cartridge gives up nothing to the .308.

    Don
     
  14. Roswell 1847

    Roswell 1847 member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2007
    Messages:
    717
    Location:
    East Tennesseee
    Actually the Garand receiver and bolt could withstand 120,000 PSI, far higher than any normal cartridge case of the day could handle.
    Heavier bullet loads were not normally issued for the Garand because of feeding issues and a defective cut on early op rods rather than lock up or receiver strength issues.
    Early failures of operating rods were cured by a radiused cut rather than the original square cut. I traded the square Cut Op rod from a Rifle I rebuilt to a collector for a NIB raduis cut op rod.
    He was building up an example of an original early issue Garand on a low number receiver so the part was to finish his gun out as it left the Armory.

    Garands with the proper rod can handle even the hottest AP without a problem.
     
  15. USSR

    USSR Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2005
    Messages:
    8,573
    Location:
    Finger Lakes Region of NY
    Not talking about chamber pressure. The reason you can't use heavy bullets with slow burning powder in the Garand is due to port pressure, not chamber pressure. And what such ammo does to op rods:eek:, will not be cured by the radius cut change that was made during the early production years of the Garand.

    Don
     
  16. Roswell 1847

    Roswell 1847 member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2007
    Messages:
    717
    Location:
    East Tennesseee
    I see you are speaking only of modern loads not the early problems with the 172 gr bullets in the Garand.
     
  17. Bazooka Joe71

    Bazooka Joe71 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2006
    Messages:
    2,803
    Location:
    Southern Indiana
    Dang guys, tough crowd tonight, eh? I'm going to have to leave a post-it note on my screen reminding me to triple check my spelling before posting on here.

    As for the question, there is no question which rifle is going to be better for 1,000 yard shots(Rem 700)...Even though I voted for .308 before reading the whole post.:p
     
  18. 1200 meters

    1200 meters Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2008
    Messages:
    147
    Location:
    Nashville Tn.
    Hey Guys, I shoot 1000 meters often. was a sniper for over 16 years and used an M-21 system with ART scope. in 1978 I fired 10.5 in groups at1250 meters with the M-118 ball ammo. I presently load 240gr serrea bthp with 4064 and it is transsonic past 1300meters. dave
     
  19. Firepower!

    Firepower! member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2008
    Messages:
    723
    On cartridges

    I have read at many places that 308 is more accurate since perhaps its a new cartridge then 30-06??
     
  20. taliv

    taliv Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2004
    Messages:
    22,280
    did you read the link on the first response in this thread?
     
  21. Ol` Joe

    Ol` Joe Member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2004
    Messages:
    2,087
    Location:
    michigan
    Both have won 1000 yd matches and will do. The biggest thing in long range shooting is knowing for certain exactly how far the target is. Once you get out past 300 yds a error of 25 yds in range or less can result in a miss. If you know your range the drop and windage can be figured to compensate for it. If you don`y you`re just sprayin` and prayin`. The difference in drop at 500 yds with a 190 gr MKHP and 510 yds at 2600 fps is 4" raise the velocity to 2750 and the drop is still 3". That is the difference only 10 yds makes at 500, go to 1000 yd and and you get the idea.....
     
  22. alsaqr

    alsaqr Member

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2007
    Messages:
    3,414
    Location:
    South Western, OK
    My LC-70 M-118 Match says 173 grain bullet and 2,550 fps on the boxes.
    My LC-62 M-72 Match (.30-06) says 173 grain bullet and 2,640 fps on the boxes. Neither is nearly as accurate as some linked IVI-70 7.62mm that I have.

    Lake City Match ammo started getting sloppy in the early 1960s: primer holes off center, etc.
     
  23. USSR

    USSR Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2005
    Messages:
    8,573
    Location:
    Finger Lakes Region of NY
    If you've ever pulled down one of these LC Match rounds, you would understand why they are not particularly accurate rounds. First, they seal the bullet with asphaltum, which hardens into something akin to epoxy. Bullet release must be into the hundreds of pounds, and the only way you can get them out of the case is with a collet-type of puller. Second, the bullet weights and ogive-to-base measurements are all over the place. And finally, the case weights vary by up to 7 grains with M72 Match. Still, for the reloader with alot of time on his hands, good ammo can be made from the components.

    Don
     
  24. Firepower!

    Firepower! member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2008
    Messages:
    723
  25. Silvanus

    Silvanus Member

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2006
    Messages:
    756
    Location:
    Luxembourg
    I think in your case, the weapon is far more important than the caliber. The Remington is the only one of those two that will give you a realistic chance of hitting something at 1000 yards.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page