.30-30 Disrespect?

[lizziedog1]

Why does this caliber seem to not get much respect from some folks? This seems to be espically true of gun writers?

You can open a reloading manual and read the description for the .30-30 Winchester cartridge. Often it will say its adequate for deer, but barely. Forget its use for anything larger. Then you go to the handgun section of the very same book and read the stuff they say about the .44 Remington magnum. Now you will read about a round that can take all manners of big game. You can mash moose with a .44 magnum, but you are using a marginal cartridge with the .30-30 if you are aiming at a skinny little white tail.

Are these people serious!!!

Look at the ballistics. They are not even close. Even the sectional density of the bullets used for the .30-30 are superior, not to mention velocity and energy.

Why doesn't the .30-30 get better press?

 

[Abel]

I think its mostly people with daddy issues. Their dads made them use a 30-30 when they were young whipper-snappers and ever since they got their own job and bought their own rifle, they've swore off the puny, anemic 30-30. They convince themselves that the 30-30 is a joke and that dad was an idiot for using it.

I have killed a few deer with the 30-30 and once watched a twelve year old kid drop a doe out at 127 paces. The destruction on all was pretty impressive. I'm a believer in the round.

 

[lobo9er]

I think its funny when they add something about how now with a LEVERlution ammo its a viable hunting round.

 

[lizziedog1]

I think its funny when they add something about how now with a LEVERlution ammo its viable hunting round.

Great point!

 

[jmr40]

These rants come up quite often about the 30-30. I've never read anything where anyone disrespected the 30-30. It is a great round, that has been surpassed by better rounds. It works as good, or better than ever, and everything I've ever read about the round clearly stated that.

The problem is that if someone writes an honest, factual article about the 30-30 some people get their feelings hurt and get on the net and start a rant.

 

[rodregier]

Part of the problem is the emphasis on the latest and greatest cartridge offerings in newsstand magazines. Selling the sizzle, not the steak.

Easier to sell magazines if you're talking about new products.

.44 Mag is in the upper end of handgun cartridges, so it gets more ink as a superlative than .30-30 which is middle of the pack as a rifle cartridge.

In a past era a lot of elephants were taken with 6.5x55, but that doesn't make it a good dangerous game cartridge. Does show what's possible with good shot placement.

 

[heeler]

Well...I own a Marlin 336 in 30-30 and like it a lot for it's intended purpose.
That is when I am hunting at a friends ranch that is heavily wooded and at best the shots will be 75 yards maybe.
It's quite lethal on deer and feral hogs and it's taken it's share.
However when I go to my main hunting place in south Texas where an average shot will probably be closer to 165-180 yards the Marlin stays in the safe and I carry the 243 or 308 simply because they have a much better trajectory and energy at ranges over 200 yards.
I love my well made Marlin but I would never take a really long shot at a deer with it.
I consider anything over 250 yards a long shot at a deer.

 

[Hangingrock]

The bolt action rifles with optics have displaced the lever action to 3rd rate status.

The 30-30 is conceived to be a weak knee sister. There is also the perception that deer are now on steroids and a death ray is required to bring deer to ground. Now that all deer are taken between 300yds and 500yds according to what I read the 30-30 can’t cut it.

I quit hunting a while back. I’ve kept two hunting rifles a Winchester M-70 and M-94 to pass on.

 

[lizziedog1]

.44 Mag is in the upper end of handgun cartridges, so it gets more ink as a superlative than .30-30 which is middle of the pack as a rifle cartridge.

But at one hundred yards, the .30-30 has more oomph then the .44 magnum has at the muzzle.

 

[db_tanker]

I actually see more positive reviews of a 30 WCF chambered in a 14" Contender than I do in a rifle. Of course, you can use pointy bullets.

Reminds me...I need to allocate funds for another 30 WCF Contender barrel...VERY nice for hunting and plinking here in SE Texas.

D

 

[mshootnit]

It does outperform 7.62X39 which is nothing to sneeze at. I see your point. Cousin of mine shot a deer at 235 yards with the lever evolution ammo.

 

[Al Thompson]

I think there's two major issues. One, lever action rifles are a drag on the cartridge. I own several, but the average bolt action has better ergonomics for shooting, I.E., stock design and trigger. Two, I have not been impressed with the 150 grain bullets performance, much prefer the 170s.

I also see a lot of .30-30s scoped with both cheap scopes and those crappy "see thru" mounts. That just adds to the problems.

Sold a young Marine buddy of mine a Marlin 336 and he's killed several deer with it this past season. Some of his hunting buddies razzed him about the rifle/caliber at the beginning of deer season. About November he started razzing back about their inability to shoot....

 

[DM~]

For deer, i never dis the 30-30, but i don't care to use something with 30-30 balistics when there are so many better choises. If it was all i had, i'd use it and live with it's limitations.

When i lived in Alaska, there was an old man who had lived out in the bush for many many years. He didn't come out all that much, but after not seeing him for some time, a couple of his friends went in to see him. They found his lever action 30-30 and it had an empty round in the chamber, but they never found him. I was told the gun was loaded with 170 grain silver tips.

A year or so later, a hunter was hunting back in where the old guy lived, and a brown bear charged out of the brush, the guy got one shot off (i think with a 300 Win. Mag.?) and killed it. When he skinned it out, he found a deep gouge in the bears skull where clearly a bullet had failed to penetrate the skull. The F&G and troopers who did the investigation, concluded that "that" bear had killed the old man, even though the old guy hit the bear in the head as it was chargeing him... The bear was old and didn't have much for teeth, and had turned to killing what ever was easiest to kill.

Not that i'm putting the 30-30 down, but it's a good story, that's true.

DM

 

[Tirod]

Glad you mentioned the X39. I see it written up in the press as a "devastating high powered assault rifle cartridge," and yet it's about 15% slower and less powerful than the .30-30.

What's happened is the boomer generation. Their Dad, and Granpa, and Uncle Eb likely used levers, with .30-30 as the caliber of choice. Being raised with whatever they wanted, in a growth market, the boomers went with bolt guns. They were depicted as the rifle of the upper class. Custom Mausers, Weatherbys, etc with glossy stocks, fancy checkering, and white spacers were everywhere. The levers never even competed.

Scenes on men's magazines had Great White hunters taking down all sorts of game with exotic wood stock bling guns of the day. The boomers resonated with that - levers were passe'. And they let their friends and fellow hunters know it.

Only the pure, simple, and morally superior bolt gun, with the first shot being always true, scoped out the wazoo with the latest glass, was good enough for them. 450 yard shots bringing down game in rugged, remote places far away was considered standard. African hunts were much more common, species still abounded, writers polished their prose extolling the virtues of controlled feeding, or the precision barrels factories installed in exciting new calibers. And still the levers didn't do much more than they had, and when they did, it was ten years too late. The boomers had bought the bolt gun line.

Now, we deal with lever gunners being hillbilly rednecks shooting out of pickups, and mag fed semi auto shooters as crazy black t-shirt survivalists. Bolt gunners hold themselves in high regard, the last champions of the ethical shot, and the only ones capable of doing it because they have the gun that can, not anyone else.

Really, read bolt gun threads here and elsewhere. Only they are the ethical hunters, the first shot counts, no follow up shots needed. They don't go out in the woods and spray rounds from hi cap mags, and they always have mechanical purity in their action. They use higher quality glass, not those ugly tactical red dots. They are "one with the trees," not beer drinking hillbillies with levers or SKS's or AK's throwing trash under their stands, shooting innocent non game species, and dressing like refugees from an Army Surplus store.

It's not hard to see in the ads, magazines, and writing.

 

[28lx]

Whole lotta game was killed back in the day with the 30-30 when people didnt read how weak it was.

 

[Beach Nut]

I have a Marlin 336CS and I still use it in situations where I am
hunting in heavy cover and do not need a 100 yard plus shot.
It is a reliable, accurate firearm and the .30-30 does the work
I need it to do without breaking my shoulder when I fire it. I also
use a Savage 110 .30-06 for areas like wide open fields or power
lines where I need the longer shot. I have read a lot of things about
the wonder cartridges like the 7mm Magnum and the .308, but for
me, the .30-30 and the .30-06 work well. Like the old saying goes:
if it isn't broke, don't fix it. Ballistically, the .30-30 isn't what the
newer cartridges are, but then again, I don't have to worry about
missing a shot and having the bullet penetrate a tree 24" in diameter
and hit a house some five miles away. I might get a .270 in the future,
but for now, I'll stay away from the uber cartridges, they are not
necessary to me.

 

[CraigC]

The only thing that has changed is perception. Fact is that the old .30-30 will do 99% of what 99% of deer hunters need doing. It will also work well on larger critters like elk and moose. No, it doesn't shoot laser flat to 400yds but I'm pretty sure we can say that the number of hunters who 'should' be shooting game at 400yds is relatively small. Elmer Keith said it a long time ago, American shooters and hunters are obsessed with velocity and its cockeyed sister, muzzle energy.

But at one hundred yards, the .30-30 has more oomph then the .44 magnum has at the muzzle.

Only on paper and only if you believe that muzzle energy is king. It is not. It does not even come close to telling the whole story, yet folks still rely on it like the gospel. Using energy to gauge a big bore sixgun cartridge's effectiveness on game is like using TKO to gauge the .223's effectiveness on prairie dogs. Fact is, the .30-30 has more range but properly loaded, the .44Mag will (and has!) take anything on planet earth.

 

[The Bushmaster]

There are few animals on this planet that you can't put down if you have both a .30-30 and a .30-06 in your "golf bag". I started with a Winchester mod 94 .30 WCF and it is still my favorite hunting rifle and the first one I grab when working with the shorter ranges up to 150 yards.

 

[Geno]

Actually, I wish a contemporary manufacturer would revive the bolt-action .30-30 Win. I'd snap one up in two heart beats. My brother has my grandfather's old Savage bolt-action .30-30 Win. Sure wish I had gotten it.

Fantasy here: Can you imagine a M70 or a M77 in .30-30? Just a nice little carbine with an 18" or 20" barrel, iron sights, and 5 round detachable magazine? Edit to add that perhaps grandfather's rifle was a Stevens.

Geno

 

[Mencius]

I have to agree that the 30-30 does get "bad" press for no real reason. I agree also with the main reason seems to be that it was around a long time and magazines need to sell, and the latest and greatest sells.

Btw, does anyone know of a bolt gun chambered in 30-30? I really don't like lever guns, but like the 30-30 cartridge.

 

[critter]

I hunt (at least part of the time) with a TC Contender in 30-30. Works WELL for me.

 

[Tentwing]

This is actually a cut and paste of a post I made I made sometime back.....

I love my Marlin 336c 30-30. Fairly cheap ammo, accurate with open sites, for the most part un-noticable recoil, and here in the Southeast it will put down every critter out there.

If I could only keep ONE game rifle out of all that I own ....my lever action 30-30 would be it. It may not be the absolute best at anything, (ie.. accuracy ,distance,power etc..) but it covers so many bases so very well that it just might be the best all round

.........Tentwing

 

[Geno]

I know of two bolt-actions rifles that were chambered in .30-30 Win: Savage M340 and Remington M788. The Savage is a single-lug bolt, and the M788 had the rear-locking 9-lug bolt. I'd like to see a twin-lug, controlled round bolt.

Geno

 

[teumessian_fox]

You can open a reloading manual and read the description for the .30-30 Winchester cartridge. Often it will say its adequate for deer, but barely.

I don't know which manual you use, but I have never seen that concerning the 30-30. I see things like "venerable" and "has literally taken millions of heads of game."

The only people who would make disparaging remarks about the caliber as a game cartridge would have to be those who don't hunt, but rather glean their gun knowledge from Call of Duty.

 

[TCB in TN]

The idea of laser flat shooting is a little off for just about all rounds. (All rds Win mfg)
Cal Mvel Bullet 100 yds 300yds 400yds
30-06 2910 150gr +1.7 -7.7 -22.7
.270win 2850 150gr +2.0 -9.4 -28.6
.270win3060 130gr +1.5 -6.7 -19.8
.243 3090 100gr +1.3 -6.7 -20.0

30-30 2460 150gr +3.3 -14.7 -45.7

Yes the 30-30 isn't as flat, but inside of 200yds it is on the pie plate even with traditional ammo, and when you compare it with the LE ammo
100 yds 200 yds 300yds
30-30 2500 160gr 3.0 0.2 -12.1

it is even closer to the others.

Nothing wrong with the good ole 30-30. It will get the job done on just about anything inside the ranges that most people should be shooting.