.30-30 Win Excessive cam over..??

[codefour]

I have been reloading for a few years now.. Every time I FL resize .30-30, I need so much escessive cam over it is ridiculous.. I am using various head stamped .30-30 cases. I check them in a Wilson case gage.

For some reason, I really need to cam over to get them between the go/no-go marks on the Wilson case gage. I usually have to use 1.0-2.5 turns of the die after contact with the shell holder.

I am using .30 WCF RCBS standard FL die set. I lube the cases on a RCBS lube pad, brush the inside of the necks with a brush with case lube on the bristles, and I wipe the exterior case neck with a rag to prevent case dings and dimples from escessive lube.

My press I have been using is a Redding Big Boss II. The RockChucker Jr did not have enough leverage. I am at soo much pressure on the Redding press it feels like the ram links are going to break.

I have FL resized much larger cases, i.e. .300 Win Mag, .308 Win, .30-06 .338 lapua and none of those required this much leverage/cam over.

Is my Wilson case gage off? With 1/2 turn after shell holder contct, my cases will not chamber in a pre-64 Win model 94 or my Savage model 340 bolt gun.

Any Suggestions..? Any help would be appreciated. Thank you in advance.

 

[james layman]

excessive cam

codefour Try this, it works for me. It will eliminate case scratching by polishing the in side of die. Take a dowel, about 6 inches, use a thin saw. Cut a slot about an inch. Cut a strip of 600 wet or dry. Use liquid like water to wet paper. Place abrasive on dowel & put in drill press. Work in & out. Let us know your cure. Jim

 

[Chawbaccer]

Your dies may be too deep, or the shell holder is too thick. Carefull grinding will fix both, however I have never ground a die. Start by making sure both, the shell holder and die set are from the same manufacture.

 

[James2]

What chawbaccer said +1

Also try a different lube. I use high speed bearing grease. Put it on liberally on the die body, but none on the shoulder. 30-30 is bad to get dimples on the shoulder if you use too much lube. With the right lube they should size without excess torque on the press. If they are still too long after sizing, its back to the thickness of the shell holder, or take a little off the die.

 

[243winxb]

Return die set to RCBS with 3 fired factory ammo brass from each rifle. Defective die is my guess??

 

[rcmodel]

I Agree.
If sized cases won't fit in two different rifles before seating & crimping?
Your sizing die is goofy.

If they won't fit after seating and crimping, you may be over-crimping and buckling the case shoulders imperceptably.

The 30-30 headspaces on the case rim, and my old RCBS dies will push the shoulder back further then necessary when in contact with the shell holder.

I have to back them off to headspace on the shoulder.

rc

 

[mtrmn]

Is .30 WCF the same as .30-30????

My dies say .30-30 and I have no trouble whatsoever. Just sayin'.

 

[rcmodel]

Yes, .30 WCF (Winchester Center Fire) is 30-30 Win.

rc

 

[Certaindeaf]

Perhaps small base dies. I don't know. I know I had a Savage lever that benefitted from small base dies. Good luck.

 

[FROGO207]

I would get a spare shell holder and grind/file the top of it about 1/64 of an inch lower and try it. The shell holder is most likely not made of hardened steel like the die is either. Then if it is still not enough to work correctly file more off it again. Just do not take off too much if you want to have that cam over so each shell will be sized to the same amount. I am willing to bet the total length of the shell holder and the die when mated results in a sized shell that is a wee bit too long. Replacing a shell holder if you make a mistake or grind too much off is lots cheaper than a sizing die IMO. I think that this is where your problem lies, same as other have suggested.

If you can size a 50 BMG in a Rock Chucker press you SHOULD be able to do it to a standard 30-30 casing with no problem I would think.

 

[popper]

Go by what fits your 94, not the case gauge. If you return the die set, INCLUDE the shell holder you use, and note it is YOURS. Make sure you have the correct holder. Other brands may be thinner, case head to top. You can grind it if needed.

 

[Bigdog57]

My early attempts to reload .30-30 failed due to the Lee die not sizing the case mouth properly - the bullet would literally fall into the case.
I switched to the RCBS die set, and have no problem. I do have to be careful of brass shot in lever actions when loading for my bolt-action Savage M340 - it has a tighter chamber. What fits my Marlin 336 will not chamber in the 340.

 

[popper]

.30-30 failed due to the Lee die not sizing the case mouth properly

Yup, same here. You want to FL size for lever gun and set HS properly. It will be different than bolt gun. Don't shoot much of that short HS ammo in your lever.

 

[rcmodel]

All factory 30-30 ammo is short headspaced.

All factory 30-30 ammo headspaces off the rim in a lever-action, or a bolt action.

If you reload, you can make the brass last longer by backing off the die and headspacing off the shoulder.

rc

 

[codefour]

Thank you for all the responses. I'm using a Lee shell holder and I think it may be the problem. I'm going to get an RCBS shell holder and try it. I'm putting in a MidwayUSA order this week. I never thought the Lee shell holder could be a problem. If that's no cure; the dies are going back to RCBS.

The Lee shell holder has a nice ring where the die body was digging into it. I think it's just too thick.

Once again, thank you all for your help.

Sent from my iPhone

 

[rcmodel]

All shell holders from all companies are supposed to be a standared thickness since about before I started reloading in the early 1960's.

That may be your problem, but I doubt it.

rc

 

[ranger335v]

RC is correct, interchanging brands of dies and shell holders is common and proper because they have ALL been made to the same SAAMI standards for at least fifty years specifically so we can switch them around. One or the other may be slighty out of tolerance but that's not a brand thing, they all make occasional mistakes. Given the way Lee makes their shell holders I'd think if either one is out of tolerance it's more likely to be the die. It's also possible your case rims are what's out of tolerance by being a few thou too thick and you're just working very hard to swage them down!

Anyway, both sizers and shell holders are case hardened, you can sand or grind metal off either one but a file will simply slip over them with no effect. You shouldn't need to remove 1/64" (about 16 thou) tho, more likely about half that.

IF the case rims are good and IF the sizer were mine I'd take the decap assembly out, use a caliper to find the length of the die and grind off five to eight thou and then check for effect, repeating until it works rather than going to the trouble of sending it back and waiting for a return. But then I do a lot of things to dies that others don't do so that may not be relivant.

As was touched on above, you gonna shoot the things outta your rifle, not the gage. If your ammo feeds and chambers in your rifle you really don't have a problem.

No one I'm aware of makes a 'small base' sizer for .30-30. Rifle chambers are cut with standard reamers and sizer dies are made to size cases to fit standard chambers. Seems to work pretty good too!

 

[john wall]

Get a Redding Competition Shell Holder set. This is the foolproof way to maintain proper head space in your rifle.

Factory 30/30 ammo does indeed head space on the rim. However, if you resize the hull back to unfired dimensions, your brass will not last long.

Both my 30/30's take the +.008" shell holder.

Scrounge some range brass, and find some that will not chamber when sized with the +.10" shell holder, then go down one shell holder at a time until your gun closes and opens with no effort.

You may have an over sized chamber, but not likely.

I have seen several 1894 Winnie's with undersized chambers. If your gun has this, factory ammo will chamber with difficulty, if at all.