How much cam over is enough.??

[cfullgraf]

The maximum resizing available with any combination of equipment is when the shell holder contacts the die and all of the slop has been removed from the system when the press ram is at the top of the stroke. You turn the die down to reach this point. Any additional change in die position does nothing except load up the press until something deforms or breaks.

Most presses are designed with a little cam over position built into the lever mechanism. It allows the user to know he has reached maximum stroke. If the press will not cam over, when it is capable of doing so, indicates the die has been screwed in too much. Applying extra force to get it to cam over will only damage something.

I have read that it is recommended to use the same manufacturer shell holder as sizing die. They are machined to provide the proper resizing at full stroke. Mis-matched shell holders and die may not have the full range of resizing that is desired. Redding makes a set of shell holders machined to different thicknesses so the relader can adjust the amount of resizing.

Most case gauges for rifles readily available from most gun emporiums measure only shoulder position and over all case length. They are cut to industry standard dimensions and measure the min/max. They do not measure chamber fit. J P Enterprises makes a chamber gauge for at least 223 Rem. Many folks with custom rifles get the gunsmith to make a chamber gauge cut with the same reamer used to chamber the rifle.

Cases resized and "fit" a standard case gauge is within industry standards and should fit any standard chamber. There are reasons this is desirable and reasons this is not desirable. The reloaders should be adequately educated to know what is best for his situation and the limits that decision imposes.

 

[MEHavey]

"Throw away your case gauge"... yeah, there's great advice.

Yes, Throw it away.
With the exception of a gas gun, your chamber is your final gauge.



Then again, ....your chamber is your final gauge even w/ a gas gun.





Then again (again), get/use a set of these for max repeatability/precision ...once your chamber tells you correct dimensions.
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=479704

.

 

[Walkalong]

Even if you are sizing to fit your chamber in a bolt gun, don't throw that gauge away, as it will come in handy one day.

Sizing all depends on the application.

Target rifle

One hunting rifle only

Auto's

Several bolt guns in the same caliber

etc.......

And sizing to fit a case gauge is never wrong. It may not, in some folks opinion, be the best way for some applications, but it is never wrong.

 

[fguffey]

Sizing a case: Limiting factor, the reloader

"The maximum resizing available with any combination of equipment is when the shell holder contacts the die and all of the slop has been removed from the system when the press ram is at the top of the stroke. You turn the die down to reach this point. Any additional change in die position does nothing except load up the press until something deforms or breaks"

Not so, I form cases for short chambered rifles with the versatile full length sizer die, press
and standard shell holder with the addition of the companion to the press the shell, the feeler gage, I form cases .017 thousands shorter from the head of the case to it's shoulder than a go-gage length chamber from the bolt fact to the shoulder of of the chamber.

"I have read that it is recommended to use the same manufacturer shell holder as sizing die. They are machined to provide the proper resizing at full stroke. Mis-matched shell holders and die may not have the full range of resizing that is desired. Redding makes a set of shell holders machined to different thicknesses so the relader can adjust the amount of resizing"

I have read that information on reloading forums also, I thought the member was making it up as in not knowing what they were talking about, or they were taking themselves too seriously, A shell holder has a deck height, in the perfect world the deck height is .125, RCBS offered me a chance to trade my shell holders one for one simply because I had shell holders that did not fit 'there new tool' I refused the offer, rational, I explained to them a shell holder is more than a shell holder to me, it is a tool AND not all of my shell holders have the same deck height...and they said the deck height is .125 and if it is not, send it back...if I like. There is the feeler gage, the companion tool to the press, that can be used to adjust the deck height of shell holders that have a deck height of .125, for real serious work I use the Lee shell holder, it is loose, more loose than the RCBS shell holder, and, I have other shell holders of a different manufacturer that can not be used for forming/sizing cases for short chambers, they have other advantages, they still have a deck height of .125.

Again, I purchased a set of Redding Competition shell holders for $5.00 at the Big Town gun show, three were .001 thousands off, that did not lock me up, I can use the feeler gage to adjust my die for sizing 'off the shell holder' the shell holders are nice, not necessary but nice, but, what is a reloader to do when he finds out the Redding shell holders are off by .001 thousands, that does not slow me down nor does it lock me up.

And grinding the shell holder and or die, I have read that one also, always starts out with "No biggie" or "No big thing", I have an in-line/angle/butt grinder, the perfect tool for making head space gages and screwing up dies and shell holders, I have the companion tool to the press, the feeler gage, with the feeler gage it is not necessary to grind a die or shell holders or purchase Competition shell holders.

The deck height of the shell holder is .125, as a versatile tool my shell holders have a deck height from -.113 to infinity, or as I say a practical +.009 thousands over a go-gage (field/reject gage).

And if when I am sizing a case and I want to know if the press won or if the case whipped my press I reach for the companion tool to the press, the feeler gage, that is if what is being said sizing has any truth, if the case is not sized by the press, shell holder and die and the adjustments are correct the part of the case that is not being sized has to be outside of the die and above the shell holder, if the case whips the press there must be a gap between the shell holder and bottom of the die, to determine 'BY HOW MUCH' the case won, I measure the gap with the ram up and jammed over, crammed over or just locked up.

And there is no excuse for not knowing if your press cams over or jams over.

 

[codefour]

I can feel it when they cam over. There is a slight resistance on the last bit of up stroke followed by a hint of relief of that up stroke pressure. I bought teh .308 case gage and tested it. Apparently, I did not have the die seated deep enough into the press. Another 1/4 turn and it was spot on per the case gage. I am going to have to seperate my brass per rifle too. Rem 700 brass in one bin and M1A brass in another.

Next, I want to learn the proper way to neck size a case for my bolt guns..

Thank you for all the responses. THR members who posted were more than helpful. I can not thank you guys & gals enough.

 

[steve4102]

Next, I want to learn the proper way to neck size a case for my bolt guns..

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/default.aspx?productNumber=555614

 

[ranger335v]

"Redding makes a set of shell holders machined to different thicknesses so the relader can adjust the amount of resizing."

Redding's "comp" shell holders are made in increasing thicknesses to limit how far the cases can be sized. They are helpful for those who have trouble adjusting a sizer correctly. They are NOT helpful in setting shoulders further back than normal.

All 7/8"x14 dies and shell holders have been machined to the same SAAMI specifications almost since their inception. No matter the brand, shell holders and dies are as interchangable as those specs can make them. Any that are otherwise are out of spec and that does happen to any brand.

"Correct" neck sizing is easy; so long on the neck is sufficently sized, and the shoulder and body are not affected, it's fine. But there is absolutely no benefit to sizing a neck below the lowest point of bullet sidewall contact.