If you're willing to move away from Stanag magazines and NATO spec BCG why not make the bolt and barrel extension larger. Of course if you did that you could keep the std 2.3" mag and just run a Grendel based case at 60K psi like bolt guys do.
300 Ham'r vs 6.5 Grendel
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someguy2800
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If you made the barrel extension larger you would lose compatibility with all the handguards. The bolt strength problem has already been solved buy just using good engineering rather than making anything bigger in diameter. Below is a MDWS bolt compared to a standard AR15 bolt. You can run this bolt at 60,000 psi with a .473" bolt face and it fits in a regular BCG and regular upper.
A little extra length would be tolerable, but I don't see any reason to make anything taller or wider than a standard size AR15, when the actual limitation is just the mag length. The same slightly lengthened receiver set would be awesome for loading ELD bullets in 223 match loads that normally won't feed from the mag.
Double Naught Spy
Sus Venator
My real point being that once you go with longer mags, longer mag well, longer cartridges, longer bolt, it is NO longer an AR15. It is a completely different gun, like the AR10 for which I did not understand your desired specs to be exclusive as it was unstated.
someguy2800
Member
Correct, you can call it whatever you like, I just want an AR15 with a 2.5" internal magazine length. Actually expanding on the same concept it would be really cool to have one stretched out to accommodate 2.8" internal magazine length to feed 308 from a single stack magazine with the MDWS bolt system seen above. That would be the ultimate small frame hunting AR. I just don't like the AR10 because it is so physically large compared to the AR15. It just ruins the handling and balance to me.
Phaedrus/69
Member
They certainly could have made an AR13 or AR12.5, splitting the difference. What it got named wouldn't be very important.
Easier to just use standard lower and chamber for 224 Valkyrie.
Short fat powder columns burn more efficiently, bottom line nothing is free.
someguy2800
Member
Both of those are completely 90 degrees to the point.
Back to 300 HAM'r for a sec. It's a good cartridge. Wilson Combat's characterization of the HAM'r as a semi-auto 30-30 Winchester is close enough. But so was Ruger's characterization of 7.62x39 as a near semi-auto 30-30 Winchester when the Mini-30 was first introduced as a deer rifle in the late 1980s. The difference is that Ruger underestimated the potential of 7.62x39. Wilson Combat is not so shy when pitching 300 HAM'r. Ballistically speaking, where the rubber meets the road, 300 HAM'r and 7.62x39 are about equal. To get the most out of x39 it's best if you're into handloading, but same goes for 300 HAM'r.
The advantage 7.62x39 has is the same as .223/5.56 NATO has. Its a military chambering with inexpensive surplus galore for lots of range time and casual plinking.
There's nothing inexpensive about 300 HAM'r at this time. It's as pricey to buy factory ammo for it as it is to handload for it. If you're made of money... go for it... you'll be happy with 300 HAM'r.
As for me, I get a thrill out of 23 cents a round (what I was paying for 7.62x39 before election 2020, the pandemic, and the Eve of WWIII). This too shall pass and prices will come down eventually. Maybe not 23 cents per round, but a lot cheaper than things are at present. 300 HAM'r was comparatively much more expensive before all the crises and will remain so.
~ Beck
The advantage 7.62x39 has is the same as .223/5.56 NATO has. Its a military chambering with inexpensive surplus galore for lots of range time and casual plinking.
There's nothing inexpensive about 300 HAM'r at this time. It's as pricey to buy factory ammo for it as it is to handload for it. If you're made of money... go for it... you'll be happy with 300 HAM'r.
As for me, I get a thrill out of 23 cents a round (what I was paying for 7.62x39 before election 2020, the pandemic, and the Eve of WWIII). This too shall pass and prices will come down eventually. Maybe not 23 cents per round, but a lot cheaper than things are at present. 300 HAM'r was comparatively much more expensive before all the crises and will remain so.
~ Beck
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Yeah they're a textbook definition of a counterpoint.
Everyone missed a lot on this discussion. If you reload, it is super simple to convert 5.56 brass to 300 ham'r as well as 300 Blackout. Pickup up the 7.62x39 and it easily converts to 6.5 Grendel. The only hiccup is the lack of available primers. I load for all 5 of these and it's hard to pick a favorite but I think my least favorites are probably the 7.62x39 and the 5.56. The other 3 each fill a specific niche and also a lot of fun to shoot.
To answer the questions everyone seems to be asking; except for the 5.56 all the others will drop hogs and deer in their tracks. The 5.56 will too but I just don't recommend it.
Just don't waste your time shooting or picking up that steel case junk.
To answer the questions everyone seems to be asking; except for the 5.56 all the others will drop hogs and deer in their tracks. The 5.56 will too but I just don't recommend it.
Just don't waste your time shooting or picking up that steel case junk.
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Double Naught Spy
Sus Venator
It is more about not calling it what is isn't. It isn't an AR15 with those specs.
Varminterror
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We’ve largely had “AR-15’s with a longer magwell for over a decade already - and none seem to survive. We’ll see how Ruger’s SFAR ends up, but the DPMS Gen II pattern, the Mega, POF, and Savage have all floundered.
Making one of these in a mid-length, between stanag AR-10 and AR-15 mag lengths would be fatal mistake. But even with relatively broad interchangeability, the “AR-12.5’s” have all floundered so far.
Making one of these in a mid-length, between stanag AR-10 and AR-15 mag lengths would be fatal mistake. But even with relatively broad interchangeability, the “AR-12.5’s” have all floundered so far.
codytrucker
Member
Well , it turns out it's a Ruger SFAR . Who says the gun company's don't watch these threads .
gunmechanic
Member
6.5 grendel gets my choice but 6arc should be looked at as well!
giggitygiggity
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The Grendel is my pick. It’s a great round. Compared to the Hamr, it seems to have better availability and support.
CraigC
Sixgun Nut
I think if you're only going to shoot supers, the 6.5 is an obvious choice. I've got three of them now, plus a 14" Contender barrel on the way. The .300Blk is nice if you're going to also shoot subs. I don't see the purpose of the .300Hamr.
Double Naught Spy
Sus Venator
It is like so many other calibers. It is just a compromise between two other calibers. All calibers are a compromise from others. Traditionally, fanboys will cherry pick the traits that set a new caliber apart and proclaim them more important than all other traits, hence the notion that the new caliber is somehow superior to its predecessors or competition.
Reminds me of the 6.5 Grendel/6.8 SPC debates. Grendel fanboys would proclaim deeper penetration from higher sectional density and BC and the ability to have a longer max range as critical traits for hunting. 6.8 fanboys proclaimed a bigger hole from the 6.8 and higher velocity from shorter barrels were the most critical traits for hunting. All I know is that when it came to butcher the hogs after shooting, nobody could tell the difference in wounding between the two calibers. Apparently, the 2 or 3 6.5 Grendel angels singing on the head of a pin do not sing any louder than then 2 or 3 6.8 SPC angels singing on the head of a pin once the sewing starts.
There comes a point when you must start questioning whether the tiny differences in calibers and spec really translate into real performance differences, sort of like when child you came to realize that buying new tennis shoes didn't really make you run any faster.
someguy2800
Member
I found one purpose for 300 hamr. I noticed one day this summer that the case length is the same as a 357 maximum, and of course it’s the same base diameter, so I had MGM make a custom 10” contender barrel for a rimmed 300 hamr for shooting metallic silhouettes, and I form the brass from 357 maximum brass.
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adcoch1
Member
This I like...
A: would that make it a 300 hamrr?
B: seems like another long trip around the barn to end up with ballistics that already existed with the 30 Harret.
someguy2800
Member
I I debated calling it 300 maxamr. I would say it’s a shortcut to end up with 30 harett because there is no need to cut cases before forming or even trim afterwards because the parent case is the same length. There is a 30 Herrett in my profile picture. I meant it to duplicate 30 Herrett but to address a few issues. First 30 Herrett is a pain in the but to make because of the cutting and trimming. Also it uses 30/30 win brass which is very thin in the case web. Contenders are pretty flexy so if you get a little too ambitious with the load it leads to very short case life because of case head separation. I have to cycle my Herrett brass out regularly or I start getting case head separation. 357 max brass is much thicker. Also a contender is pressure limited based on the case diameter, similar to an AR15. A .373” base diameter case has less bolt thrust at 60,000 psi than a .422” base diameter case at 50,000 psi.
So with the rimmed 300 ham’r I expect to get about the same velocity with less powder, but with much better brass life, and much easier to make.
loadedround
Member
I vote for the 6.5 Grendel, but and a big BUT, just try to find new cases to reload at any price. I reload all my own ammo!
brewer12345
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I have 350 legend and grendel. I looked closely at 300 hammr and blackout and I just don't see any need my existing cartridges don't already meet.
Varminterror
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Same case capacity as 6 ARC, same energy, but in a longer, skinnier case, which loses access to the long, high BC bullets. Seems like a lot of effort for custom dies and chamber reamer to fall short of 6mmAR/243LBC and only match 6 ARC, ESPECIALLY being dependent upon 350L brass for case forming. Like flying West to get from LA to NYC.
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