300 Savage or 308Win in AR-15 Barrel?

Status
Not open for further replies.
Hello, the .308 is already in the AR15 platform. I own a DPMS Panther AP4 LR.308. Look it up. The frame is larger than the standard Mp4 design, but it looks just like it with 20 round magazines. Sorry if I misunderstood what your askin about. It won't work in the standard AR15 design.
 
The FTX 30-30 bullet is the better bullet for your use since is has a shorter ogive and is meant to be loaded where action length is a concern.

I'm not sure where you heard that the OSSW is having accuracy issues since I've heard the opposite exclusively. While the OSSW is a proprietary design, so is yours. The biggest difference is that theirs is tested and proven by a firearms company and has pressure tested load data to go along with it. It also isn't that expensive. Especially not compared to a one-off custom job. They use an upper with a larger ejection point to accomodate the larger case diameter as well as a larger diameter. The bolt, barrel extension and barrel shank are larger than normal to accomodate the fat little round. They developed the oversized parts for their .223, .245 and .25 WSSM rifles a few years ago so the parts are tested. The bolt isn't the strongest possible bolt out there, but it has proven more than capable of standing up to use with a 65K psi cartridge. That is the max that SAAMI permits. How much stronger does it need to be?

The problem with getting a powerful round in the AR-15 platform is the limited cartridge length dictated by the dimensions of the mag well. Mess with the magazine itself and you run into interchangelability problems as well as reliability issues. You can't make a longer case so that leaves the only option of going with a fatter case if you want an increased powder capacity. The 6.8 SPC was the first commercial endeavour in that direction since it was generally determined that going with a bigger rim diameter that that of the .30 Rem (parent case of the 6.8 SPC) would excessively weaken the AR-15 bolt. There have been strength problems with the 7.62x39, PPC series and 6.5 Grendel (all based at least somewhat on the .220 Russian) bolts. Running a case head larger than the 6.8 has led to several different bolt sizes and barrel extensions being developed by several different companies. Olympic and D-tech worked out the WSSM case size. Remington (or more correctly Bushmaster) worked with making the .473 case head work for the .30 RAR and the result was an oversized bolt based on the AR-10 bolt and a barrel extension to match it. The ballistics of the .30RAR are VERY close to the .250 Savage and the OSSM has demonstrated ballistics on the order of the .30-06.

Me, personally, I have no particular fascination or obsession with the .30 cal bore size and think that it isn't very well suited to much of anything and is especially poorly suited to any cartridge with a limited length or powder capacity. You can punch a bigger hole with the likes of the .458 SOCOM, .450 Bushmaster and the .50 Beowulf and can get better long range performance from a smaller diameter bullet that can be pushed faster and has a higher BC. From my perspective a 6.5 or 7mm OSSM would be the ideal cartridge for the AR-15 platform. It would take a non-standard upper and bolt but would stomp the crap out of nearly everything else possible across the course with its advantage only increasing as the range increased.

Your time, effort and money. Do what you want but realize that you're unlikely to exceed the performance anything already available and you're firmly in wildcat territory.
 
helotaxi,
Good points.
Those FTX bullets are really mean. I can attest to that.
The WSSM are definitively great casings. Very strong. Could be very accurate but I have been working for a long time with the WSSM forum and some AR OSSM folks are not getting the performance accuracy wise you get with other WSSM offerings. Maybe this has changed lately. In fact the .243/30 wildcatters were getting better results.
Ballistics compared to the 30.06 is really a marketing stunt. Is that really necessary anyway? You are totally limited by the magazine as you mentioned. There is no mention how the 30./06 can be too overcharged. Almost anyting can be turborized. With long barrels, right bowders and bullets. Nothing is disclosed as how they come up with those numbers. Reality shows no one single overcharge OSSM load is either accurate or practical. If you like Mike's work at DTI then just why not to go for the 338 or 358. The 358 is a bigga momma and if you are going to be fireforming and the whole nine yards that leaves the Socoms and BeWolfs or any other thumpers in the dust. You can use actual bullets with some ballistics and everythign and the folks in indiana love them.
But I know a couple of guys have been very stressful with the WSSM .243/7mm. However, like any WSSM, the limitation for long range is yet again, max mag. length and not the round itself. This one very accurate though.

I agree, there are many good options out there and 30 cal is probably not the best. For me the 6.5BR is hard to beat in the AR for many uses. The BRX goes even further but the BR is so much easier.
Could be a perfect hunting round for Elk and bear and still punch paper supersonic at 1100 yards.

So, lets imagine for a second the feeding from the savage is resolved. Lets put that aside.

These are some simple reasons this is a attractive to me.

A) Reamers available. Anyone can do a 300 savage with a barrel to my precise specifications.
B) Free brass. I have truck loads of 308w. and nice motorized trimmer/prep setup.
C) Even if I had to buy brass is cheap'er and no fire forming needed.
D) Limitations due to length are there too but still have some nice options from 130gr to 160gr ftx.
D) Plenty of power for big game at reasonable range.
E) Good bullet deals for target loads. Something nice along with the free brass.
F) Yet another upper to the collection but some that I see myself using this in a very light setup with the deer and black bear and even Elk. Hard to decide sometimes. Can only hunt with one at the time.
 
Last edited:
R.W.Dale,
What are the precise dimensions / profile? Porting?
We need enough section uncut so it can be reamed and still have enough meat around the chamber.
 
and some AR OSSM folks are not getting the performance accuracy wise you get with other WSSM offerings. Maybe this has changed lately.
Or maybe it was these people in particular having problems.
Ballistics compared to the 30.06 is really a marketing stunt.
How do you figure? The source of the ballistic data I've seen is not Olympic. The .25 WSSM essentially duplicates the .25-06 (slightly less case volume but the short, fat case is more efficient and the cartridge is designed to a higher pressure than the -06 series.
There is no mention how the 30./06 can be too overcharged.
Not reliably, the brass nor actions are designed around a higher pressure.
Almost anything can be turborized.
And almost any firearm can be grenaded.
With long barrels, right bowders and bullets. Nothing is disclosed as how they come up with those numbers.
The data I've seen was loaded within the pressure limits of the parent case and used a 24" barrel.
If you like Mike's work at DTI then just why not to go for the 338 or 358.
Mostly because I'm not a recoil junkie and a hard kicking AR-15 totally defeats the purpose IMO. Also the larger calibers start to suck hard at longer range.
But I know a couple of guys have been very stressful with the WSSM .243/7mm. However, like any WSSM, the limitation for long range is yet again, max mag. length and not the round itself. This one very accurate though.
These will be vastly superior to any .30 cal offering that you can fit in an AR-15 action at longer range thanks to the better BC of the bullets that will fit in the magazine with the same length case and the fact that they will be lighter and capable of being driven faster at the same time.
 
helotaxi,
Hey you didn't quote me in the entire note? what happened? Quote&roll. lol!
the folks trying this were several from their own Oly forum using standard setup following factory directions.
We are not going to granade any barrels, do not worry about that.
I am in agreement about the 7mm, specially for longer reach. Awesome bullets. Again the WSSM doesn't leave much room and running over the ogive is a big nono.

Anyway,
I am talking to a couple of barrel makers. I will keep this posted in case someone is interested in the 300 Savage option.
 
If the magazine is side fed like those bolt action .50s on the ARs lowers, it might work. I am interested. It is the one thing that has kept me back from AR15s is that they cant do bigger/full size cartridges.
 
No. It feeds from the bottom just like any other mag. It is transformed like a clip so there is no metal added in the back or front. At the moment I have a prototype that looks horrible but it works. Right now I am waiting for the bolts and extensions that are hard to get by. Then cut the barrel that should be easy as the reamer is widely available.

If you are interested let me know if you can help search for another bolt or someone that can cut it w/o taking 6 months. Otherwise we might not see this working before hunting season is here again.

Thanks.
 
I will keep my eyes out. I am in the research phase of my first ar build (still not yet fully committed as I pointed our). I will definitely look around some more with your issues in mind.
 
Idaho,
I had built other similar. I think the savage it makes sense to me because I have a lot of x1 fired brass and with the ftx bullets just makes it centerstack.
Everything else should make it a very light 18" 5-6 shot shooter for pigs and white tail.
 
Idaho,
I found the bolts!! I bought them today.

Now to get someone to cut the barrel. I am looking for a reamer with the least amount of leads for this purpose.
I will post a video of the modified mag working.. It is going to be 5 to 6 single stack. I do not need more and anyway more is not legal here for hunting.
I need a stronger spring. I am trying to find a magazine that is single stack that is longer so I can cat to the tension I need. It can be any other caliber as soon as it fits in the AR15 receiver.
 
Marine the 30 Ar will do 2660 fps with a 150 gr bullet and the 300 savage does not do a whole better unlesss 40 fps is a big deal to you.
http://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/handloading-30-remington-ar/
Did you look at the 30 BR or the old 308 x 1.5 Barnes , the have less powder capacity then the 30 ar and are slower.
Another option could be a 6.5 mm by 1.5 based on a 308 case.
Anyway good luck and keep us informed.
I really like the 30 ar and already killed a deer with it.
 
Great thread. Thinking outside the box is pretty cool. Thanks to the OP and all responders. I have learned a ton and thinking about options.
Thanks again
Jim
 
CMC,
I did think abut that one A LOT. It is amazing what that little chubby round can do. I do prefer that over the WSSM for my taste and more sensible shooting and they say it is very accurate too. I am happy you like it.
I have however other AR15 uppers that are beyond what is needed for big game even at long range so I wanted to try something really simple with a common round.
My though has been to also reuse the truck load of x1 fired 308w brass so any offspring is welcome news.
Some say it cannot be done. That's just fuel to my project.
As you know Oly has now the 22.250. In my case instead of working with a dedicated heavily modified receiver I rather to work with just heavily modified magazines.
Cheers,
E.
 
JimSTC,
Many thanks for your kind words and support. As you can see I got a lot of BS in some posts but obviously from folks that didn't take one second to go and actually measure the mag-well and the round. I am not trying to prove anything, I am not in research of a new AR15 world record, I am not competing with anyone, simply building something new for fun with the intention to use it and actually hunt with it.
Now I have a working mag prototype and the bolt I just need the barrel cut. Slowly but steadily I am working my way to the end line. I am pretty sure will not be bug free from day one but otherwise where is the fun?
I promise pics.
 
CMC,
Here you have a couple of 6x45 next to a 6BR norma lapua necked up to 6.5mm.
With a 20" upper with a 5R krieger barrel I have a 123gr Scenar / Amax or a 120gr nosler BT at 2800fps+ Will shoot the VLDs supersonic out to 1100 yards if one can hit anything but that is a different thread. So, very flat shooting and will take down anything walking in this continent. BR like the 6.5x47, PPC.. are not for everyone but BRs are extremely accurate and efficient. This is as good as it gets...

65BRvs6x45c.gif

95grainer vmax comes out screaming. Next to bolts and a 90gr 6x45.

65BRvs6x45.gif

123gr SMK - 2.295 COAL - 6.8mag standard.

65BRvs6x45h.gif
 
Last edited:
Hi Marine
Thanks for the photos.
I didnt know about the 6x45 that is very interesting.
I also have a lot of 308 brass also lying around and I only reload for the 308 and 30 ar.

Keep us posted!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top