browningguy
Member
For me the .300 is just too much gun for target shooting, i'd definitely go with the 6.5, and the Savage is an excellent gun to start with.
300 Win mag or 6.5 creedmoor
- Thread starter zerobarrier
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Fella's;
Take a look at the Tikka Super Varmint. Just add scope (and not a Burris, but that's just my opinion) and shoot. As for what to shoot, my vote would go to the 6.5 Swede. Given that the Tikka is a thoroughly modern strong action, it's safe to push the loading book limits a bit. There have been reports from an F-class competitor on this site of 2900 fps muzzle velocity done with no consequences. Myself, I'm getting about 2750, and the brass is telling me it's happy. With a B/C closely approaching .500, the round can do work at extended ranges.
900F
Take a look at the Tikka Super Varmint. Just add scope (and not a Burris, but that's just my opinion) and shoot. As for what to shoot, my vote would go to the 6.5 Swede. Given that the Tikka is a thoroughly modern strong action, it's safe to push the loading book limits a bit. There have been reports from an F-class competitor on this site of 2900 fps muzzle velocity done with no consequences. Myself, I'm getting about 2750, and the brass is telling me it's happy. With a B/C closely approaching .500, the round can do work at extended ranges.
900F
zerobarrier
Contributing Member
I have a burris fullfield e1 4.5-14x on my AR and have had good luck with it. I think its pretty clear and it tracks. So I figured the burris I mentioned would be good, but don't really know. The only tikka 6.5x55 I can find for sale is the t3 sporter for about 1450. It looks real nice but only has a 20" barrel, wish it was 26", isn't barrel life on 6.5x55 and 6.5x284 a lot shorter than the CM?
Zerobarrier;
I would expect barrel life on the 6.5 Swede to be comparable with any other moderate pressure cartridge. I'm sure you'll have to poke around on the net to find someone who'd like to sell you a Super Varmint in 6.5X55mm, but they don't list 'em in their catalog just to hold 'em in the warehouse. Try some of the master dealers: SoDak Sports is the first that comes to mind.
I'll take Nikon, Leupold, or Zeiss over Burris any day of the week. I've bought 4 Burris products over the years, two scopes and two sets of rings & mounts. One set of rings & mounts worked. One outta four isn't good enough to get any more of my money, but YMMV.
900F
I would expect barrel life on the 6.5 Swede to be comparable with any other moderate pressure cartridge. I'm sure you'll have to poke around on the net to find someone who'd like to sell you a Super Varmint in 6.5X55mm, but they don't list 'em in their catalog just to hold 'em in the warehouse. Try some of the master dealers: SoDak Sports is the first that comes to mind.
I'll take Nikon, Leupold, or Zeiss over Burris any day of the week. I've bought 4 Burris products over the years, two scopes and two sets of rings & mounts. One set of rings & mounts worked. One outta four isn't good enough to get any more of my money, but YMMV.
900F
urbaneruralite
Member
- Joined
- Oct 28, 2007
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- 473
The Savage action with the floating bolt head sorta lines itself up when you close the bolt. So, having the action worked isn't a priority like in most rifles. It's not the smoothest action with all that going on. You can get it slicked up if you want or just buy a Tikka if a smooth action is a priority.
6.5x55, .260 and 6.5 Creedmoor all have similar barrel life and similar performance.
6.5x55, .260 and 6.5 Creedmoor all have similar barrel life and similar performance.
henschman
Member
You know the short action 6.5s are the ballistic twin to .300 WM, right? With the 6.5 you can get the exact same trajectory and wind deflection as the .300 out to about 1200 yards. Since the main intended application is for target shooting, that makes the decision easy... assuming you are actually wanting to be competitive. Your comment about wanting a harder recoiling rifle just for the hell of it makes me wonder. FWIW The 6.5s also put more ft./lbs. on target than .308 anywhere past 200 yards, and would be more than adequate for a 500 yd. hunting shot like you mentioned. Less recoil than .308 to begin with, and after the can it would be down to about .22 LR levels.
Not sure why some of you are talking about recoil when the OP stated they would be using a suppressor. With my TBAC on my 300WM the recoil is mild, so that is not a factor for the OP.
I'd go with 260R over a 6.5CM in a bolt action. Only reason to go 6.5CM is if you are looking at a gas gun to be able to seat the bullet longer in the mags.
In PA if you are thinking for hunting, most shots will be under 100 yards for hunting applications.
If you are just looking for 600-1,000 yards...I'd go with 260 Remington.
You won't need a 300WM to get to 1k, but if you want to shoot beyond 1k, than the 300WM option may be better for you.
I also live in PA and I got rid of my 308s even though I've shot it to 1k...I just didn't like the performance. If I were to start over and since I reload, I would choose 260 Remington for what you are looking at distance wise.
I'd go with 260R over a 6.5CM in a bolt action. Only reason to go 6.5CM is if you are looking at a gas gun to be able to seat the bullet longer in the mags.
In PA if you are thinking for hunting, most shots will be under 100 yards for hunting applications.
If you are just looking for 600-1,000 yards...I'd go with 260 Remington.
You won't need a 300WM to get to 1k, but if you want to shoot beyond 1k, than the 300WM option may be better for you.
I also live in PA and I got rid of my 308s even though I've shot it to 1k...I just didn't like the performance. If I were to start over and since I reload, I would choose 260 Remington for what you are looking at distance wise.
zerobarrier
Contributing Member
That is very nice. I believe I have narrowed it doen to the savage 12 lrp in 6.5cm or a custom built one by hawk hill custom with their falkon receiver and their 26" 4 groove barrel threaded with a timney calvin elite trigger. Both will get a chassis system, leaning towards the xlr just because I really like the xlr element on my 308, but not fully decided on that yet. I know the custom route will be much more. The savage is around $1000 and the custom barrel is 325 then install 300 and trigger 200, so thats 875 without threaded barrel or their receiver. So I will guess somewhere around $1800-$2000 for the custom barreled action without stock. At least with the savage I can get it and shoot it right away for $1000. The custom I would have to wait awhile and piece it together, since it will be about $3000 total an extra $2000 which will take me about a year to save up. I have a scope now that I can use until I decide to upgrade. So I am wondering is the custom rifle worth the extra year or so wait and the extra added cost? When and if I replace the stock on the savage it will take the total to $1700-2000. So I am really looking at a difference of $1000 for a custom rifle vs the savage. So what do you guys think, with all that in mind the year wait for the custom and difference in price, which would you do custom or savage 12 lrp?
Thanks again for all the help and info so far.
Zero;
I very much realize that picking between the two candidates is a personal choice, but my choice would be the custom. I can say that, now having two custom rifles, the second in the final stages. If the money is not a huge stumbling block, and you don't make it sound as though it is, then go for the long-term satisfaction.
I'll also tell you that the first custom gun was a 6.5 X 55mm Swedish Mauser. It was created because I shoot from the left shoulder, and the number of left bolt guns in that caliber are few. Not only that, they tend to cost as much as a custom gun anyway. (Can ya say Blaser and Mauser G3?) Therefore, going custom allowed me to spread the expense over some time, which helped. Just for the record, it was done on a Tikka action & wears a 22" Lilja barrel. It will consistently shoot to half an inch at 100 yards, if I don't drink too much coffee that morning. Best it's ever done is three shots into .261" at 100 yards. Which is pretty satisfying considering it's a medium weight sporter barrel and a working hunting rifle. Satisfying enough that I had no qualms about starting the second custom gun.
900F
I very much realize that picking between the two candidates is a personal choice, but my choice would be the custom. I can say that, now having two custom rifles, the second in the final stages. If the money is not a huge stumbling block, and you don't make it sound as though it is, then go for the long-term satisfaction.
I'll also tell you that the first custom gun was a 6.5 X 55mm Swedish Mauser. It was created because I shoot from the left shoulder, and the number of left bolt guns in that caliber are few. Not only that, they tend to cost as much as a custom gun anyway. (Can ya say Blaser and Mauser G3?) Therefore, going custom allowed me to spread the expense over some time, which helped. Just for the record, it was done on a Tikka action & wears a 22" Lilja barrel. It will consistently shoot to half an inch at 100 yards, if I don't drink too much coffee that morning. Best it's ever done is three shots into .261" at 100 yards. Which is pretty satisfying considering it's a medium weight sporter barrel and a working hunting rifle. Satisfying enough that I had no qualms about starting the second custom gun.
900F
MtnCreek
Member
Savage sounds like the way to go. Instead of saving for the next year to go custom, you can be saving for a better scope while using the rifle.
gamestalker
member
The 300 WM will certainly fill the bill, but it will also run the bill up. I load for and shoot one, and let me tell ya, a pound of powder burns up pretty fast, that is if you can tolerate the extreme recoil. And the projectile definitely costs a little more, but brass is plentiful it seems.
If you intend to use it for long range hunting applications, then the 300 might be better suited for 1000+ yd. distances on big game.
GS
If you intend to use it for long range hunting applications, then the 300 might be better suited for 1000+ yd. distances on big game.
GS
zerobarrier
Contributing Member
Thanks CB900F for the info. Money is always an issue with anything, I am no millionaire. But I make a decent living and when I spend my money I want to make sure its worth it. It is more the year or so wait that's bugs me the most, but I have to weigh the benefits. If the rifle will be 10x better then fine but if the stock savage that JW74 has shoots like that target consistently then I don't see how you can do much better.
henschman
Member
Check the price of brass for .300 WM versus 6.5 CM. That ought to sell you on the 6.5 if you aren't already.
Zero;
There's an old-old saying that: "The devil is in the details". The fit and finish of a crafted vs a production rifle is immense. The attention to detail is a large part of what you're paying for, but the payoff is in having a superb gun. Both will shoot bullets. One is a lot more satisfying to own. Drive an Aveo today or a Corvette tomorrow?
900F
There's an old-old saying that: "The devil is in the details". The fit and finish of a crafted vs a production rifle is immense. The attention to detail is a large part of what you're paying for, but the payoff is in having a superb gun. Both will shoot bullets. One is a lot more satisfying to own. Drive an Aveo today or a Corvette tomorrow?
900F
zerobarrier
Contributing Member
Lol. Well I sent emails to GA Precision to find out what a barreled action would cost with there Templar action and bartlein barrel and to Hawk Hills custom to find out the price of their Falkon action with one of their match barrels. I guess we will see what the prices are. Then there is a surgeon action to consider as well.
LocoGringo
Member
GA Precision has the name, but their action is made by Defiance. I built a custom rifle using the Defiance Rebel action and a Krieger barrel with an HS Precision hunter type stock and Timney trigger. There is definitely a lot of satisfaction in building a custom rifle. I did it for my son and personalized it for him with a specific serial number...his initials and birthdate. Lots of satisfaction in that project.
LocoGringo;
Small world, my son built his long-range rifle on a Defiance action also. It sports a Lilja barrel, Jewel trigger, and it all sits in an Accuracy International stock. It's a 7mm Practical wildcat, but that's just a .300 Winchester necked to 7mm, so not a radical wildcat. However, I've seen him pop a 2 liter pop bottle at 1240 yards. The thing flat shoots! Oh, Vortex optics.
900F
Small world, my son built his long-range rifle on a Defiance action also. It sports a Lilja barrel, Jewel trigger, and it all sits in an Accuracy International stock. It's a 7mm Practical wildcat, but that's just a .300 Winchester necked to 7mm, so not a radical wildcat. However, I've seen him pop a 2 liter pop bottle at 1240 yards. The thing flat shoots! Oh, Vortex optics.
900F
LocoGringo
Member
Very cool CB900F. My son's rifle isn't anything super impressive. He's 5 years old right now, but I did it as a "coming of age" project to present to him when he turns 13. I also plan on having a custom knife made with matching leather sheath and rifle sling to be presented in a handmade presentation box. It's a 7mm-08, but with a tweak here or there, he can go either direction he chooses...hunting or long range precision. It's got a Leupold VX3 scope on it right now. I'd LOVE to put a Vortex Razor HD on it, but that's a BIG price tag. I've only shot a box of Hornady Superperformance through it, but I did get to test it with my suppressor. It's fun and will provide a lot more fun in the future. It's set up for versatility right now.
Shows how much I know...I thought the 7mm Rem. Mag WAS a necked down 300 Win Mag. Your son's rifle sounds amazing. That's a serious rifle with a serious shooter behind it.
Shows how much I know...I thought the 7mm Rem. Mag WAS a necked down 300 Win Mag. Your son's rifle sounds amazing. That's a serious rifle with a serious shooter behind it.
Loco;
OK, here's a quick charge weight comparison & then we'll quit hijacking the thread, right?
.300 WM, 180 grain bullet, max charge: IMR4831 75 grs, RL19 77.5 grs.
7mm RM, 175 grain bullet, max charge: IMR4831 59 grs, RL19 62 grs.
Data source Speer #14.
900F
OK, here's a quick charge weight comparison & then we'll quit hijacking the thread, right?
.300 WM, 180 grain bullet, max charge: IMR4831 75 grs, RL19 77.5 grs.
7mm RM, 175 grain bullet, max charge: IMR4831 59 grs, RL19 62 grs.
Data source Speer #14.
900F
LocoGringo
Member
Agreed...no more hijacking. I'm not doubting you about your son's caliber. I've not done any homework and just "thought". Like I said, shows what I know.
I guess that if the 7mm RM were a derivative of the 300 WM, the charge weights would be much closer?
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