300 WSM vs 30-06 (more than a speed question)

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Macchina

Macchina

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I am planning on getting my one and only 30 caliber rifle soon. I’ve narrowed it down to the new Model 70 (probably the Featherweight version). I was all set on buying one in 30-06 but keep on thinking about the 300 WSM as a really nice cartridge. This will be my longest range rifle as I tend to gravitate towards short-range rifles (.44 Mag and .357 Mag in lever and bolt guns) for my deer hunting.

The Model 70 Featherweight in 30-06 weighs 7 pounds and the same rifle in 300 WSM with a 2” longer barrel also weighs 7 pounds. The 300 WSM is only 1.5” longer in OAL. I normally am not concerned about losing a round in the magazine from one cartridge to another, however the 30-06 holds five to the three in the 300 WSM (This is a very minor concern).

Here is my question: I reload 100% of my rifle rounds and have been thinking this will make the 300 WSM a better cartridge for me as a reloader. I would get 250 FPS more out of a 180gr bullet and potentially a “better” cartridge (more inherently accurate, shorter, etc.)

On the other hand 30-06 brass is cheap and finding store-bought ammo easy (just in case), should I just go with the 30-06? I don’t plan to try to load high-pressure magnum levels here, so will I really miss that 250 FPS and the short cartridge the 300 WSM would give me? Is there something special about the 300 WSM? This would be the only gun I’d grab for open country hunting (up to Elk) in Northern or Western USA. I would still hunt deer in the Midwest with my lighter rifles.
 
compare ammo prices and availability before you choose.06 is easily available as 300wssm is not.if your going on a hunting trip and somehow gun gets separated from ammo,what's going to be more readily available.
 
I started with 30-06 and used it for 40 years. Can't say a bad thing about the round. But if advising a new shooter/hunter today I'd advise them to bypass the old 30-06 and buy a 308 for general use and get an additional 300 WSM for long range or larger game.

My 308 hand loads beat factory 30-06 loads and come within 100 fps of my best 30-06 loads. I have the option of using my Kimber 308 that is almost 2 lbs lighter than my 30-06 with equal recoil, or a 308 of equal weight and 25% less recoil. For general use I really like the 308, or even 7-08 a lot better. A little lighter too.

My 300 WSM as you say will beat 30-06 by at least 200 fps and as much as 400 fps depending on bullet weight. The greatest advantage of the 300 WSM is that it is very efficient with powder. It beats 30-06 with only slightly more powder and comes within 50 fps of 300 WM with a LOT less powder. This puts bullet speed just below 300 WM levels, but recoil only slightly greater than 30-06 levels. In a nutshell the 300 WSM beats 30-06 with very few negatives. I've often said that you get 300 WM speeds, in a 308 size package with 30-06 recoil.

For a handloader the 300 WSM is a great round. Even with factory ammo things are better. At one time finding ammo was spotty and expensive. It is a lot more expensive than 30-06, but only about $3 more per box than 300 WM and I've not seen any store that carried 300 WM that did not also carry 300 WSM in years.

.06 is easily available as 300wssm is not.if your going on a hunting trip and somehow gun gets separated from ammo,what's going to be more readily available.
Click to expand...

If your gun is zeroed for your handloads and you lose them you are going to be in serious trouble trying to get factory loads to hit where you're zeroed even if you can find them. Not a factor.

The only real concern is "NEED". While I like the 300 WSM a lot, I'm not sure I really need it. I can do anything I truly NEED to do with my 308.

One other concern with the FWT. In standard calibers the FWT rifle uses a thinner barrel profile that looks great in the FWT stock. The WSM FWT rifles use a standard weight barrel profile in the FWT stock. It is not a good looking combo in my opinion. If you go 300 WSM it would be in the Extreme Weather rifle. If you are sold on FWT, go 308.
 
If you are going to roll your own, the WSM is the more versatile cartridge. You can load it up or down as you see fit. The only reason to get the /06 is for store bought ammo. Seems like most WalMarts carry 300 WSM these days. Gas stations in the sticks that have ammo are becoming less common.
 
Ask yourself if the extra range and power is worth the expense and recoil. I have been down that road and decided that the 30-06 will do everything I ever want to do with no drawbacks. But I respect the opinion of the other posters and their reasons as well. Perhaps for what you intend the 300 WSM is better. My out west gun is a 7MM mag but I don't need it anymore and do not need the extra range. The 30-06 is good for 400 yards that is enough for me.
 
Since you are talking about hunting rifles, it don't make a dimes bit of difference; ain't one gonna kill something that the other won't just as well. Go with the one with readily available ammo and brass.

Don
 
The question is, what does the step up in cartridge size buy you?

It does not buy you more killing power.

What it does buy you is more range, but probably less than you think.

Standard cup and core bullets tend to fail if the impact speed is greater than about 2800 FPS. So with a larger cartridge, you might shoot heavier bullets. If you stick with 180s, you'll have to use premium bullets.

With a 30-06, you probably won't go to the range to shoot for fun very often. With a larger cartridge, you'll shoot even less.
 
The only real difference in the rifles would be short action for the WSM and long action for the aught-6. not only will brass be cheaper for the 30-06, you'll go through less powder as well. For example, a 300WSM pushing a 178 grain at 3000 fps will take 66-70 grains of powder, versus a 30-06 pushing the same bullet at 2700 fps with 54-60 grains. The 300 fps difference might matter of you're making consistent 400+ yard shots, but the amount of powder you'll use will begin to make a difference after you've loaded a few hundred rounds.

Honestly, if I were looking for a great long-range rifle for elk, or precision shooting, and wasn't going to buy a 30-06, I'd look at a 7mm Rem Mag. Ballistics are better for similar bullet weights and velocities, as 7mm bullets fall into a sweet spot for BC.

I have a .308 bolt gun I've been messing with for bench rest. If I weren't already also loading for a 7.62x51, I'd probably trade the bolt gun for a 7mm-08. I might end up doing it anyway.
 
If you want a faster .30 just get a .300 WinMag. It will launch a 180 grain bullet even faster than the WSM. And you can find brass almost anywhere.

The WSM is not as good a long range cartridge as the WinMag with 180-220 grain loads. It saves no significant weight or length. It may theoretically have a slight edge in efficiency (with lightweight bullets) and accuracy, but not enough to be meaningful. As far as I know no one has won a major long range competition with the .300 WSM, but plenty have been won with the WinMag.
 
Since you reload, you should consider the 338 Federal (necked up 308 win) or 338-06 (necked up 30-06). They gain a lot of speed over their original 308 cal versions due to better expansion ratio. The 338-06, particularly, rivals or succeeds the 300 mags in terminal performance.
 
I would probably choose the 300 wsm myself and look at the 7mm wsm hard. Unless you plan to purchase only factory ammo while traveling the country on expensive hunts vs the handloading route price difference in components is not much. I like the short action WSM I had a 7mm wsm win featherweight a beautiful rifle and shot great (around 1" at 100 yards) recoil was not terrible I thought it was a dang good rig. Unless your set on 30 cal take a hard look at 300 wsm and 7mm wsm... either will do the job 7mm just won't fuss at your shoulder as much.

If looking for a mid range type cartridge 308 case size 260 rem and 7mm-08 (and all those that are ballistic twins so to speak) are my choices. I use a Sako A11 7mm-08 my 14yr old son a Remington 700 sps 260 rem both are easy shooting rigs that double up great with varmint bullets on coyote.
 
I have a model 700 in 30-06 that has been Akley Improved, like you I reload all of my ammo and I am getting 3,400fps with a 180gn matchking and using the superformance Powder and their are others loading the same load just a little hotter.I backed off almost 100 fps for accuracy sake out at 800 meters and I can still yet shoot store bought ammo which is everywere for $20 a box and new Brass is readily available and also cheap. In my opinion I don't believe the 300wsm can out shoot the improved 06. The 30-06 has been around a long time for a reason and with these new powders the handloader has the upperhand and I only expect it to stay around performance has came so far espeacilly when you have it AI. Its a new monster for us reloaders and every mom&pops store that sells ammo will likely have the 30-06 as to the 300wsm for half the price. And you'll have something that most dont.
 
I've been a .30-06 guy for a long time, originally driven by my collecting and shooting M1 Garands. I also have a great, go-to, hunting rifle in .30-06, a Win M70 EW that is a sub-MOA shooter with my handholds using Barnes 168gr TTSXs and 165gr AccuBonds. Practicing with Sierra MatchKings or Hornady A-MAXs, it is a 0.67-0.75 shooter. All hunters who have used the -06 know of its effectiveness on North American game.

That said, I just bought a .300 WSM Sako Bavarian, because that's what the store had NIB. I got it $250 off retail and got to use Reward Points worth another $250. Buying a Sako Bavarian for $500 0ff is an IQ test...and you fail if you don't jump at it. As a long-time hand loader, I have two sets of loads to work up: a super hunting load with 180gr bullets and a .308-.30-06 load for fun shooting with 150 or 165-168gr bullets like SMKs, Nosler CCs or A-MAXs.

It turns out that if you can buy a wonderful rifle that you've lusted after for years and can get it in a useful (if not a usually preferred) caliber, you do so. Now the .300 WSM matches the ballistics of the .300 H&H which won the Wimbledon in 1935. I can't wait to get it out to the range to see what it will do...at 100, 600 and 1,000 yards (we have those here in CO). BTW, Sako includes a 1 MOA 5-shot guaranty and I bought a box of Nosler Trophy Grade ammo, just to test it. I am so looking forward to next year's Elk season here in the high country.

The choice is not either/or...sometimes it's just getting a great rifle and figuring how best to use it.

Cheers, and Merry Christmas to all,

Harry
 
I will bring up an idea that hasn't been touched yet.

The model 70 featherweight is an American "classic"

The 30-06 is an American "classic"

The 300 WSM is an awesome round, but a 30-06 would sure go nice with a model 70 with a claw extractor.

When I bought my model 70, I was torn between 300 WSM and 300 Win Mag.
I went with the win mag as I wanted a classic for the 70, even though I saw a lot of merit in the WSM.

Merry Christmas
 
As has already been pointed out by others, The .300 WSM isn't going to move you up into a larger class of game animals that you can ethically take, although it may make exact range estimation slightly less critical and give you around 50 more yards in maximum range (assuming that you practice enough from field shooting positions to actually make use of it).

I think this one pretty much boils down to getting what YOU want.

@ alientrainwreck.
Your results with the Improved '06 are truly unbelievable!
You should probably give your data to Hodgdon since their current maximum pressure 180 grain .300 Winchester Magnum load data doesn't allow them to get within 300 feet per second of your Improved '06 load!

It's too bad you had to back off on the velocity of your load "almost 100 fps", because the fastest Hodgdon is able to push a 180 grain bullet out of a .30-378 Weatherby is only 3460 fps and you seem to have had that beaten handily!

The ballistics you claim for the 30-06 Improved are truly incredible in the literal, classical sense of the word.

www.hodgdonreloading.com/data/rifle
 
To add to what swampman said about 30-06 imp when you fire a factory/saami round in a AI/improved chamber you give up velocity due to reduced pressure from the enlarged chamber. The old you can get such and such ammo anywhere has it's merits, however I assure you 300 wsm would be easier to get than any improved/ai cartridge. Any powder breakthrough will apply to more than just 30-06 as well, so another non issue with new powders.

Easy answer is OP decide what you like, hunting rifles don't get shot much. Recoil between the two, ballistics etc is not enough to make much difference. Action length I guess is what you will end up choosing.
 
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Ya, that was a mistake, im getting 3,040 fps with the 180gn matchking using hodgdons superformance although I did load sum that was a compresed load that chrony'd 3,205fps with the 180's But I get high preasure sign , when I go down to the 150gn matchkings 3,400fps is average. I backed off to 2950fps for the 800 meter only because my gun shoots that particular bullet ( sierra matchking) extremly consistant at that distance. Sorry bout that my fingers got carried away. And CLINTM you should do a little more homework on these new Powders because they are not for just any large caliber cartridge and With factory ammo do you think that dead deer is going to rise from the dead and tell you it sure could tell that bullet wasn't going 3,000fps.and also I have never seen 30-06AI Factory ammo ever that is for the reloader.. Do some research on the 06AI and you'll see that they compare it to the 300H&H .
 
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IMO, the .300 WSM doesn't offer enough over the '06 to justify the massive increase in brass/ammo cost, the greater powder consumption, or the 40% reduction in magazine capacity. Adding 30 or 40 yards to you MPBR is fairly insignificant; if you're hunting without a range finder in an area where shots exceed 200 yards, you're estimations are likely to be off by a lot more than 30-40. I've been hunting 2/3 of my life, spent a tremendous amount of time in the woods. To this day, without an object of known size to calibrate my brain, I am frequently off by 100 yards or more at ranges of 300, 400, etc. Just two weeks ago, we were after speed goats near the KS border. I saw a group, estimated their range at 250-275. The range finder confirmed that the nearest pronghorn was 372 yards. A 97 yard error at 300+ yards would be a miss with even the fastest & flattest of the eargesplitten loudenboomers. Couple years back, a friend of mine mused that he could make a shot on an elk with his .30-30 if it were near this rock. I asked him to guesstimate the range, he said " 'bout 150, 160". Rangefinder time: it was over 300.

But I digress. To me, the .30-06 is the logical choice. But whichever you go with, don't count on an extra 200-300 FPS being the difference between a miss and an ethical kill. Use a range finder.
 
MachIVShooter is right on with this post. An ethical hunter needs to know range and the ballistics of his/her load. Oh, and as to the guys looking for a "flat shooter", note that a 180 gr .300 WSM zeroed in at 200 yards with a muzzle velocity of 2960 fps drops 26.2" at 450 yards. If you don't know that, and understand hold overs, you'll shoot right under your target. Good thing animals can't laugh.

Happy hunting and Merry Christmas,

Harry
 
In order to make as much of an "apples-to-apples" comparison as possible, let's look to ONE source for reloading data.

According to Hodgdon, the top velocity with a .30/06 and a 180 grain bullet is 2840 ft/sec out of a 24" barrel. (59.7 grains of Superformance) Pressure is 57600 PSI.

Also according to Hodgdon, the top velocity with a .300 WSM and a 180 grain bullet is 2991 ft/sec out of a 24" barrel. (65 grains of IMR 4350) Pressure is 63700 PSI.

So for 151 ft/sec you no longer have a common, low cost standard round, but a nearly proprietary round with higher loaded ammo and brass costs which burns nearly 10% more powder and works at 6100 PSI higher chamber pressure. And . . . it will slow to the .30/06's muzzle velocity by roughly the 75 yard mark.

You decide if it's worth it.
 
alientrainwreck,

I replied to the post you made that I have copied/pasted some of it below. I was just pointing out some points I think are worth looking at. As to the speed you mentioned as I stated above not enough difference in between 30-06, 300 wsm to worry over in my opinion I think it will be a choice of action length concerning the OP

And CLINTM you should do a little more homework on these new Powders because they are not for just any large caliber cartridge and With factory ammo do you think that dead deer is going to rise from the dead and tell you it sure could tell that bullet wasn't going 3,000fps.and also I have never seen 30-06AI Factory ammo ever that is for the reloader.
Click to expand...

I have a model 700 in 30-06 that has been Akley Improved,

I can still yet shoot store bought ammo which is everywere for $20 a box

and new Brass is readily available and also cheap

with these new powders the handloader has the upperhand
Click to expand...
 
I agree 100% with MACHIVSHOOTER There isn't enough difference Ballistically speaking, and on the plus side with the 06 you get more ammo capacity. With the 06 a reloader can load a 220gn bullet that will easily take any game in north America and im sure it has. Their is good reason it has been favored among hunters for so many years..
 
According to Hodgdon, the top velocity with a .30/06 and a 180 grain bullet is 2840 ft/sec out of a 24" barrel. (59.7 grains of Superformance) Pressure is 57600 PSI.
Click to expand...

Not really. That is only the velocity and pressure they recorded using a particular powder in a specific firearm. Also note, the pressure they recorded is well below the .30-06's pressure spec of 60k psi. My LR F Class load for the .30-06 generates 2900fps with a 190gr SMK while remaining below (just) 60k psi. Of course, I don't use a Hodgdon powder and I have a 26" Obermeyer barrel.

Don
 
2,875 fps (24" barrel, ~58,000 psi)
180 Accubond
Lapua brass
MRP powder

30-06

The same powder and bullet in the 300 WSM can go a tick over 3,000 fps at the same pressure (58k psi)...

As Don told me several years ago in a 308 vs 30-06 debate...there is no replacement for displacement.
 
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