Could the 300 WSM steal the 30-06 throne?

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Until you can walk into a gunshow and buy a bag of 100 once fired 300 wsm brass for $20 it doesn't have a chance. A 100+ year head start is darned tough to overcome, as is the fact that arsenals worldwide have probably produced literally billions of rounds of ammo and millions of rifles since 1906.
 
Funny - I never thought of the WSMs as alternatives to calibers like 30-06 or .308 but rather as alternatives to W (and other) non "S" Ms. In that role they're on their way to taking over.

I recall reading about the .17 HMR eventually killing of the .22 mag as well.
And the .40 AE...
And the 10mm...
And the GAP...
And the...............

I think what kills is more an issue of availability and versatility - thinkin' like 30-40. It had it's day for a short time then quietly faded. What's more versatile, available and part of the American experience than 30-06?
 
Like I said, I am looking at the ballistic aspect only, though the short action is a nice touch too. Remember that short action and higher efficiency are the two reasons that the 308 is takeing some of the 30 cal crowd. Price of used brass is not exactly a huge selling point for me, I find one brass that I really like and buy in bulk. using mixed and matched stuff you got at a gunshow can cause a fair deal of pressure/fps spread due to brass thickness and exact volume which varies by brand.
 
many great performers have never seen the service, 270 win, 7-08 rem, 260 rem, 25-06, and 7mm rem mag for example.

Exactly!! There have been a bunch of rounds that have come out which are better than the .30-06, and also ones which have come out which are better than the .308. None of them have become more popular than the .30-06 or .308 though. It isn't about which rounds are better, it is about buy in from the public. I don't see ANY cartridges in the .30-06 class getting the buy in that the .30-06 has in this century.
 
Exactly!! There have been a bunch of rounds that have come out which are better than the .30-06, and also ones which have come out which are better than the .308. None of them have become more popular than the .30-06 or .308 though. It isn't about which rounds are better, it is about buy in from the public. I don't see ANY cartridges in the .30-06 class getting the buy in that the .30-06 has in this century.
Calling one caliber "better" then another is tricky, one could say that the 300 Ultra mag is "better" then a 308, and it does shoot further and flatter for sure, but when you consider the amout of powder burnt, wear on the barrel, nasty recoil, and ear piercing muzzle blast the 308 would be a heck of alot nicer for 95% of all situations. For one caliber to be "better" then another it would have to be superior in all or at leased the vast majority of messurments. For example the 30-06 is better in every messurable way to the old 03. I would not go as far to say the WSM has the potential to be "better" then the 06 because the 06 will always have a few advantages due to it's exterior design, slimmer and smoother shoulder means it will always feed a little smoother and always have a higher magazine capasity for a given size, now that does not mean a hill of beans to me, but I am sure that there are plenty of riflemen out there that love that about the 06 vs hard shoulder magnums.
 
My favorite .30 is an old cartridge I've had for a good while. It's chambered in a 700 Rem Classic, the .300 H&H. It can still pretty much hold its own against any of the newer magnums running less pressure and less powder. Sure it's a magnum by the belt but I've enjoyed the cartridge. Less recoil, brass that never seems to need trimmed.

Is it the best? Naw, the best is what suits my needs at the time. But I love that H&H.
 
Electric cars will replace gas cars first.
But wait -- suppose we promote the .300 WSM as a "green" cartridge, get a $100,000,000 government grant for our company to sell more .300 WSMs, drive the stock up, sell it and get out with the proceeds?
 
Now to be totaly fair to the 30-06 fans I will observe the 1st and most important rule of debate, always be able to debate either side argument :)
1st the 30-06 always has been and always will be "enough" gun for the VAST majority of hunting in North America (and Africa for that matter) to my knowlage no elk has evolved kevlar fibers in their hide, it worked 100 years ago, before high tech bonded bullets and it will still work today.
2nd it carries a long proven track record that outshines any ballistic table.
3rd people always talk about 300 mag trajactories being better, but the difference in reality is 3" at 400 yards w/200 zero, it almost seems silly to stress over that.
4th 17 degree shoulders will ALWAYS feed smoother then 35 degree shoulders I don't care how good the action is.
 
And 5th -- there are a heck of .30-06s out there and tons and tons of cheap brass.
Point, but as I said before alot of handloaders don't like mixed bag brass, different thickness and material cause them to shoot differently so alot of us like to stick to one kind of brass for a given caliber. I like Rem brass for my 270 WSM and Prvi brass for my 6.5x55. If you don't shoot past 300 yards this is probably a mute point because the fps spread does not make a noticable difference at close range.
You will never see mixed win/rem/federal brass on a 1,000 shooting bench ;)
 
3rd people always talk about 300 mag trajactories being better, but the difference in reality is 3" at 400 yards w/200 zero, it almost seems silly to stress over that.

And it (the 30-06) is entirely usable with a 300 yard zero, thats what mine is zeroed for. Levels the field even more...
 
And it (the 30-06) is entirely usable with a 300 yard zero, thats what mine is zeroed for. Levels the field even more...
Too true, the 06 has a completly adaquate trajectory even for long range hunting, and the punch to drop most American game when it gets there. The improvement that magnums give is splitting hairs. Throwing heavy controled expansion bullets is more important to taking big game then having 3300 fps and a zillion ft lbs of energy. Putting a bullet through the vitals with a reasonable amout of expansion is the name of the game, kenetic energy and fps are a distant seconday to this, and the 06 does this very well since most .30 cal bullets are designed for 06 impact speeds.
Even the lowly 6.5x55 is a well established big game gun not for it's massive energy but it throws hefty high SD bullets that drive very very deep, that is how a sissy kicker can cleanly take a trophy moose. By every messure the 30-06 is a 6.5x55 upscaled 1/3, they both like heavy bullets and throw bullets of the same SD at identical speeds.
 
Reloaders don't drive sales of rifles, factory ammo does

Here is the lowest cost Winchester 30-06 ammo from Midway, $19.99/20, with 131 total types available of all brands/loads

http://www.midwayusa.com/find?dimen...imensionId=9795&promotionId=&userSearchQuery=

And here is the lowest cost Winchester 30 WSM ammo at $35.29, with 40 total types available of all brands/loads

http://www.midwayusa.com/find?dimen...imensionId=9839&promotionId=&userSearchQuery=

Maybe in your area guys are different, but around here there are quite a few frugal fellows.

The 30 WSM will never top the '06. Ever
 
Oh If I did not handload the price of 300 WSM ammo would turn me off a little as well. I can get WSM ammo for as little as $24.95 (fusions) and 30-06 for as little as $14.95 (power shocks) a $10 difference is pretty steep, but as a handloader it is alot easier to deal with the WSM. The brass is thick and very well constructed, I have yet to have any throw away brass despite several firings at max load (and a few just above, during load development).
I know that the full 300 mag potential is splitting hairs with the full power 06 loads, but the hunter that I have more respect for then any other swears that that makes all the difference in the world when hunting elk in the mountains. I bow to the experence of people who have put in that much time in the field.
 
Handloading is different from most buyers. Handloaders sometimes are drawn to calibers that most people don't know exist. Many like to tinker, do wildcats etc. The majority of gun buyers don't do that. The 30-06 will do everything a hunter wants to do , do it well and cheaply. Most guys like to be able to walk in anywhere and buy it off the shelf and aren't going to spend much time on ballistic charts and are pretty sure that dead is dead. But we do need people to test out stuff and make it more popular if it really is a big diffference. A lot of nice calibers a relegated to small groups of buyers that like them but the mainstream doesn't care. I almost bought a 300 WSM a few months ago because I liked the rifle. I just didn't know much about the cartridge and didn't plan to shoot enough to handload it. Maybe I should have.
 
Now I recall that the .300 WSM has substantially more recoil. It averages over 300 fps more than 30-06 in factory loads. As I recall I did not want more recoil, did not need the extra performance for hunting out to 3-400 yards, and did not want to deal with scarce or expensive ammo. Since I has a couple 06's, I was looking to go the other way like a .308. A far more useful cartridge for me and many other guys. I also have a 7MM which is great. I see no need for a 300 wsm for anybody but a fan of the cartridge. Seem s like there are lots of intermediate mag cartridges that sound alot alike and few need, but a small number of guys actually can tell the difference and have a preference. Short action doesn't mean much to me. I'd rather have magazine capacity. But for paper punching and handloading it's a whole different program. Not alot of guys hunt with all out bench guns. Then the bench guys tend to use bench only versions of cartridges as well as rifles. Like the 7-08 it's a dandy cartridge. I don't think it will come close to either the .308 or 30-06 in sales ever. If I decided to go .300 mag, I've always liked the Holland and Holland in an old model 70 like my buddy has. Now that's cool.
 
1, The fat case of the 300 WSM means that you can fit fewer into a magazine of a fixed depth.
2. The 308 will out perform the 30-06 (with less powder) with bullets up to 165 gr.
 
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Way to many 06s out there for that to ever happen. {I have four}

I have five.

If any cartridge could kill the .30-06, it would be the .300 Win Mag -- and it hasn't.

I have seven. And perhaps the most telling reason why the .300WSM will never "dethrone" the .30-06 is, the historically significant firearms that the .30-06 was chambered in. And, Vern is correct. If it was merely a case of ballistics, then the .300WM would have done it. See what you are up against, Kachok?

Don
 
The 308 will out perform the 30-06 (with less powder) with bullets up to 165 gr.

?? It might come close to equaling the 30-06 in some of the lighter weights, but I've never seen any book loads for the .308 that out-perform the best book loads for the 30-06. If you shoot over-max 308s and compare them to 30-06 maybe, but... that's not really a legitimate comparison is it....?

For equal pressure loading's with mid weight bullets, the 30-06 consistently out performs the .308 by 100-200 fps, with the advantage being somewhat lower (but still present) in 150 gr loads.
 
For equal pressure loading's with mid weight bullets, the 30-06 consistently out performs the .308 by 100-200 fps, with the advantage being somewhat lower (but still present) in 150 gr loads.

Yep. I handload them both, and with heavy bullets, the .30-06 outperforms the .308 by 200fps. There is simply no substitution for case capacity.

Don
 
?? It might come close to equaling the 30-06 in some of the lighter weights, but I've never seen any book loads for the .308 that out-perform the best book loads for the 30-06. If you shoot over-max 308s and compare them to 30-06 maybe, but... that's not really a legitimate comparison is it....?

For equal pressure loading's with mid weight bullets, the 30-06 consistently out performs the .308 by 100-200 fps, with the advantage being somewhat lower (but still present) in 150 gr loads.
By my reloading manuals the 308 comes under the 06 by less then 100 fps in both 150 and 165gr loads. The difference does not become noticable until 180gr and even then it is only about a 150fps difference. Now if you want to talk 200 and 220 gr sure the 06 ownes it outright. The difference between the two in powder charges is very noticable. According to Nosler a 308 can drive a 180gr bullet to 2718fps with only 44gr of IMR 4064, for the 06 to duplacate that it would require a minimum of 54gr of powder, and for it to get that extra 150fps it would take a whopping 61gr of RL22, which is well into 300 WSM territory as far as powder charges go. (both were messured in 24" barrels w 1:10" twist) BTW with the same 61 gr charge (N550) the 300 WSM is quoted at 2976fps vs the 2872 for the 06.
 
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There is no replacement, for displacement. Isn't that how the old adage goes? To me, the slightly extra case capacity of the .300WM isn't enough to make me switch from my 06. And I've said it before and I say it again.....Find me any round that ISN'T based off the 06 or 03 for that matter, on the shelf at any Walmart, Orschlen's, Dickey Bub's or the like that's comparable (on the same level or better) to and.....FOR THE SAME OR CHEAPER THAN the .30-06....Can't be done. .30-06 is the king of the Non Magnums once again!
 
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