.308 for home defense?

[HK G3]

Oh no, I wasn't being sarcastic, I'm legitimately interested in getting an authoritative database of ballistics for HD.

 

[blackhawk2000]

BOT does not fire into gelatin after shooting through the drywall.

Having weighed my options, I'll stick with a light, high velocity round for HD.

HK I'm sure there is data out their, but it's a matter of finding it.

 

[The Wiry Irishman]

BOT doesn't, but I've come across a few that do. I'll see if I can find one.

 

[262runner]

.308 or .30-06 is for offense, not defense

 

[blackhawk2000]

262 where is your data to back this up?

 

[charlie echo]

.308 or .30-06 is for offense, not defense

Good offense is the better defense, if you want to talk vague theories....


Back in the dirt! Yes, I did resurrect a "zombie" thread.

 

[GCMkc]

This is definitely a no brainer. I would go with a shotgun or low velocity handgun round (.45). One shot from a gauge inside of an apartment is going to put someone down. If I fired my .308 rifle at someone best bet it's going through the bad guy, through my house, and into someone else's house.

 

[allaroundhunter]

hmmmm HD in a very thin wall apartment.......i might would go with a shotgun with non-lethal loads.....(rubber bulletts)....just an idea?

umm....no. I would never recommend that someone use a less lethal round for HD use. The chances of you killing someone through a wall with an overpenetrating round is much less than the chance of an aggressor getting up and killing you after being hit with a less lethal round.

For police use, they are great, but that is because there are other officers ready with lethal loads as back up in case the less lethal round does not have the desired effect. For home defense, load up with a round capable of ending the threat as soon as possible.



ETA: Okay, why the heck was this thread brought back up? It really was not necessary.

 

[mortablunt]

Zombie thread status long confirmed, I'll give my opinion. 308 and 30-06 are not the world's best HD calibers, but they sure are effective and not wholly terrible choices.

 

[jnoble87]

Holy dead thread Batman! I'd hope after 4 years they figured out that a high power rifle wasn't a practical home defense gun.

 

[Bill_Rights]

I think it is OK to resurrect a 3 to 4 year old thread of this type. I was amazed the other day looking at the new .308 rounds that are out there. I will, if I get a chance, look at these again and snip a few of the appropriate ones for this thread.

I and every self-defense writer I've ever read totally agree with allaroundhunter on this point:

I would never recommend that someone use a less lethal round for HD use. The chances of you killing someone through a wall with an overpenetrating round is much less than the chance of an aggressor getting up and killing you after being hit with a less lethal round.

And, as for jnoble87's comment

Holy dead thread Batman! I'd hope after 4 years they figured out that a high power rifle wasn't a practical home defense gun.

I think that there are certainly better choices for inside-the-domicile SD, but there are other aspects to defense, too. Outside-the-house, neighborhood defense, farm defense and/or general "Katrina rifle" applications could involve 50-150 yard shots on occaision. With a quick magazine change, you can select the projectile for various apps. The .308 and several dozen models of rifles chambering it are so darn versatile that, if you've got one, consider yourself lucky. If it's what you've got or what you're holding in your hands at the moment a self-defense situation becomes do-or-die, then you could do a lot worse. It is also nearly perfect for hunting, should we be faced with a survival or financial collapse situation.

 

[willypete]

It's interesting that home defense carbines have become much more accepted recently. There are a few factors contributing to this:

A lot of returning veterans have been trained with and are familiar with the M16/M4 platforms. "Use what you know" is a very strong motivator for weapon selection.

Development of highly frangible, low penetration, expanding rounds. This ammo is purpose-built for use inside the home or at short distances for self-defense.

A proliferation of literature and knowledge regarding ballistic effects. Dissemination of new, data- and research-based information vs. old "truths" that are accepted only through repetition is a good thing.

Proliferation of the AR15-type rifle among sportsmen, law enforcement, and target shooting communities. People are realizing that evil black rifles aren't really that evil.

The old saws about overpenetration, too much power, litigation, and birdshot simply are not true anymore (if they ever were).

 

[xxxleafybugxxx]

You never know... Maybe in the middle of your SD situation, a deer walks right through your kitchen. then the .308 isn't looking so bad after all...

 

[AK_Maine_iac]

Here in Alaska the odds are high that the BG may be a big ole black bear. It happens all the time.

 

[benEzra]

That missing with anything will lead to bad overpenetration, and that hollowpoints won't reduce overpenetration. I haven't been able to track down any sort of Box O' Truth - like test for 110 TAP or a similarly constructed bullet, but I'd suspect it would slice through quite a few walls before it broke up and stopped.

AFAIK, the Box O'Truth has not tested any light to medium weight rifle JHP against drywall, and has done no drywall tests with realistic wall spacing.

I am aware of one such test for .223, 9mm, and 00 buckshot, and the upshot of that was that properly selected .223 penetrates less than 00 buck and 9mm 115gr JHP in drywall. I have no idea whether .308 would behave similarly, but given that 110gr .308 JHP is twice the mass of 55gr .223 JHP, I'd want to see tests before considering that for HD. I would also like to see drywall tests of #4 buckshot with realistic wall spacing.

As others have stated, there are loads for rifles and shotguns that will stop in 2 interior walls or less, but none of these meet the 12" penetration standard in gelatin. If it were me, in that situation, I think I would probably go with an underpenetrating .223 or shotgun load anyway, understanding that multiple shots might be required, but others might weigh the risk/benefit differently.

 

[Art Eatman]

The problem with necrothreadia is that the thread's starter might well be dead and gone. The comments don't help him at all.

If folks want to discuss modern ammo, start a new thread and include the URL of the old one if you wish.