.308 for home defense?

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as stated before,anything with terminal penetration will go through walls.i live in a wood frame house and so do my neighbors.before that,an apartment with thin walls.i use frangible pistol rounds butt that still very iffy.i just try to practice to minimize misses,unfortunatly i doubt any armed bg's are worried about my neighbors kids when they start squeezing off:( and of course no birdshot,unless you plan on basicly firing point blank.
 
I worked a drive by once where the BG's used a stolen H&K 308. 1 round went through the front of the house and 3 interior walls and killed, then exited the body and out 2 more walls and gone.

The 308 does penetrate. The cases found on the scene were LC 70's vintage IIRC. I speculate it was your typical 147 ball. But he was surly DRT.

I don't know about the TAP round but I think the 308 might be just a touch heavy for an apartment. But it is great here in the country.
 
Do some "Mexican Home Defense" rounds. Take some 147gr Ball, pull the bullets. Buy some frangible projectiles from Polygunbag, and seat them in place of the Ball projectiles. They'll go to powder upon hitting anything solid, but ruin anyone's day they strike first.

Or better yet, stick to target birdshot loads. Even 9mm Ball will go thru multiple walls. I've seen 'em do it.
 
I don't buy wholly into the penetration argument, because basically anything worth shooting at a bad guy is going to penetrate to one degree or another. Personally, I wouldn't go with a FAL for home defense, but I do keep my AR loaded and ready to go at all times.

BTW, I fully understand that your not planning on doing so, so don't sweat it.
 
Do we know for sure if Hornady uses A-max bullets for this? If so, I've got some 178's loaded up and could easily fabricate a "box-o-truth" from scrap's in my shed. I do know that those bullets to disintegrate pretty quickly on hitting the berm behind my paper targets, but I still think we'd see 10 sheets of drywall or so.
 
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I've conducted some impromptu testing with 40, 45 caliber auto pistol rounds, 223 and 5.45 rifle rounds through drywall, denim fabric, and many 1 gallon water jugs. These tests are far from scientific, and only involved firing one bullet apiece from these cartridges, each for the drywall/denim test and the waterjug test. I found that the 60 grain Hornady Vmax bullet fired from the 223 penetrated the denim and the drywall just fine. When a bullet was fired at point blank range into a column of water jugs, the bullet exploded in the first jug, and sent a bb sized projectile into jug number 2.

The 5.45 used a sized down 60 grain Hornady Vmax and performed identically.

The pistol rounds were the most surprising as they too went through denim and drywall just fine, BUT the 40 caliber Hydroshock traversed several of the 1 gallon water jugs, I don't remember just now exactly how many, as did the 45.

I took from this that the 223 is a good HD round, and while it hasn't happened, and likely won't ever happen for me to find out first hand, it seems to me more likely to be able to aim a rifle better than a handgun, so the 1st hit to the "waterjug" torso is more probable.

YMMV
 
I don't buy wholly into the penetration argument, because basically anything worth shooting at a bad guy is going to penetrate to one degree or another.
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Sure, but the idea is that you want to choose a round that, after hitting it's target the dreaded "zombie", doesn't continue to be in one piece and have enough energy to THEN penetrate a wall and do it again to an innocent next door.

Everything is going to go through walls you are right about that, drywall isn't much of a deterrent.

But the question is if you DO hit the bad guy will the bullet just keep right on going and into the next room. .308 has a pretty good chance of doing that I'd believe, except just maybe that really light TAP round mentioned.

If you miss the badguy it's gonna be bad no matter what you are using :)
 
I've helped my buddy run a couple of boxes of 110 gr. TAP through his FAL. Mostly we shot 2 liter bottles of water. The TAP would not penetrate beyond two 2 liter bottles placed back to back. That's no more than a foot or so of penetration in water, which would equate to even less in gelatin or flesh and bone. The results on target were devastating.

I think that if you were to keep the FAL as a primary home defense weapon, the TAP would be the round of choice. It offers the lowest penetration for that caliber that I'm aware of, and a horrific wounding effect on the target. That said, I'd hate to uncork one of these indoors! I imagine the muzzle blast would cause considerable permanent hearing loss. And, a battle rifle would be pretty unwieldy indoors.
 
I imagine the muzzle blast would cause considerable permanent hearing loss.
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Somebody posted a noise study on various rounds fired indoors in a thread a few days ago. I can't find it at the moment, maybe someone else has it.

It showed that rifles and handguns were both so darned loud inside that it didn't matter. It had some surprising numbers in it.
 
The .308 is much louder, but the barrel is much longer. I shoot outdoors with one and it don't bother me where a .357 does a bit. I hunt with both. Indoors, well, you're going to be hearing bells either way. LOL
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Mac, that ringing is a sign - like pain when you break a bone - that you have just done irreperable harm to your hearing. If you are shooting indoors or out, handgun, long gun or whatever in ANY caliber without hearing protection you are damaging your hearing and are being irresponsible and foolhardy.

Because I did the same thing when I was young and bullet proof I now suffer from permanent hearing loss and never, ever shoot anything without hearing protection... even when hunting. This condition is 100% preventable.
 
I use hearing protection religiously at the range, but I hunt without and still have decent hearing. I've fired thousands of 12s in the field without protection hunting ducks, doves, geese and such. I know it ain't the way to go, but I've done it for years. I hunt as much with my ears as with my eyes.

I've had only twice that my ears rang like that, first time I capped a round out of a box blind with my Contender and in a house with a 12 gauge once at a rat (told the story on another thread somewhere). I now take my muffs when I'm shooting that contender out of any enclosure. Once was enough, LOL. I wear 'em up on my head and pull 'em down before the shot.

Heck, even when I was in college and broke, I can remember taking my stereo headphones to the range. LOL I won't even mention loud rock and roll.....
 
The main thing in penetration isn't the caliber but the bullet construction. The .308 TAP 110gr is a ballistic tip and penetrates less than say a .223 Trophy Bonded Bear Claw. Comparing .308 FMJ to .308 ballistic tip isn't a sensible comparison.

12" in gel is still pretty good penetration though (especially for a ballistic tip round) and if you miss your target, it is going to penetrate multiple interior walls and still present a threat unless it strikes something solid enough to break up the round. If you hit the target, then it will break up and even if it exits the smaller pieces won't have the same momentum or penetrating power.

Like most penetration issues, not missing goes a long way to solve overpenetration concerns if you choose ammo wisely.
 
a short barreled 12ga with 00 is much better for indoors.
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I think you will find most of the testing shows that to be false. Turns out 00 buck has just about as bad overpenetration issues as the handgun and rifle rounds.

After a long thread back and forth with MCgunner I started reading the testing that's out there and his suggestion of #3 shot seems to be what the general consensus is coming to. #3 and #4 shot seem to hold up under tests as the "sweet spot" for shotguns as far as still giving good damage to the target but not going through 8 or 9 pieces of sheetrock.

The link iamkris posted on this is a good one.
 
I would never use a .308 for home defense. Do you know how much cleaning you will have to do if you ever use it?
Unless you live on a ranch, go with a smaller caliber.
 
Bart Roberts has it.

The 308 and 8mm are very similar.
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You're comparing a heavy FMJ with a light high velocity HP.

Loaded properly the .308 is an excellent choice and will leave a smoking ribcage. I'd pick it any day of the week over some pea shooting .45 ACP. The first goal is to SURVIVE THE ENCOUNTER. Besides the big slow slugs will penetrate like nobody's business so picking a handgun round gets you nothing on the vaunted overpentration concern. I've seen a .357 slug blast through multiple interior walls like they weren't even there. That's what bullets do. And if it's not powerful enough to get through a wall it's probably not powerful enough to work.

Your kidding....right?
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No.
 
I shot two deer with my SOCOM and 150gr soft points and there were no exit wounds.

I keep 30 rounds of 110 grain TAP on tap just in case.:D
 
.308 is a GREAT home defense round....

You can even defend your neighbor's home with it ... a half mile away :D

Inside the house...get a shotgun...
 
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