.308 vs .30-06, and an M1 question

[Nightcrawler]

I thought Chrome Lining was considered a "must" because it provides much better corrosion resistance in humid or damp climates.

 

[VG]

There's a shortage of .30-06 autoloaders. There needs to be a military grade (i.e., reliable and easy to field strip/clean) .30-06 semiauto that has 5 and 10 round box magazines, that can use all loads from the lightweight varmint stuff to the 220 grain elk bullets.

This won't happen because the 30.06 is long obselete as a military cartridge. The .308/7.62 was designed to use most of the same tooling, and with essentially identical ballistics to 30.06 M2 Ball. 30.06 surplus ammunition is growing scarce and the last batch of "good stuff" - the 90's production Danish ammo - is long sold out or more than $200 for a case of 400. The junky 30.06 milsurp now on the market for $89/400 ($0.22 per round) is nothing like the Danish or USGI ammo. By contrast, you can buy milsurp 7.62 for $0.11-.15 per round.

One of the reasons that the M1A replaced the Garand in Service Rifle competition is that the .308 has better accuracy. If you put the two rounds together you'll see that the 308 is almost identical but about 0.5" shorter. No modern powder loads come anywhere near requiring the case volume of the 30.06, and the extra room allows the powder column to move around more than with the .308. As an M1A can be had for as little as $695 and meets the requirements you stated, the value of a "modern" 30.06 is moot. There are other .308 service rifles around as well. Many people convert CMP Rack Grade Garand rifles to .308 with the addition of a .308 barrel and spacer, specifically because of ammo costs.

To answer some other questions, most Match grade 30.06 or 7.62 is 173 grain.
The adjustable gas plugs work well on Garands if you're not shooting Garand-safe ammo. Federal American Eagle or PMC Bronze line are both 150+ gr new production ammo that shoot well in standard Garands. I've purchased AE for as little as $6.40 per box of 20 ($0.32 / round). CMP sells specially formulated Federal 30.06 (shoots about the same as AE) for around $0.40 / round. I have two cases of Danish and one of LC 66 left, so I won't have to scrounge for a couple of seasons....

 

[Nightcrawler]

This won't happen because the 30.06 is long obselete as a military cartridge.

See, except I'm not talking about a MILITARY weapon. A military-GRADE autoloader is one that is, you know, RELIABLE. Think Kalashnikov vs., say, a Remington 7400 which is a piece of junk based on a sporting shotgun design.

What's useful for militaries or not shouldn't have any sway over whether or not Izhmash produces a .30-06 Saiga, which I've heard they're doing.

I already HAVE a .308 autoloader. Now I want a .30-06. I, personally, have absolutely no desire to own a .308 Garand. I WOULD like a .338 Garand, though.

 

[VG]

See, except I'm not talking about a MILITARY weapon. A military-GRADE autoloader is one that is, you know, RELIABLE. Think Kalashnikov vs., say, a Remington 7400 which is a piece of junk based on a sporting shotgun design.

OK, lets frame it differently. No one will create a new 30.06 autoloader because the ballistically identical (using any modern powder) .308 allows a shorter action, is much more popular worldwide, and is intrinsically more accurate.

 

[Nightcrawler]

VG, it's worth pointing out that no one is creating new .308 autoloaders, either. All the current designs are decades old, at least.

.30-06 and .308 are NOT ballistic equals; they are, possibly, in your basic factory loads (though most published figures I read give the .30-06 a slight velocity advantage), but to the handloader the .30-06 offers greater case capacity and thus higher performance without getting into excessive pressures.

Also, you can not use the 220 grain bullets with .308. Or at least, if you can, I've never heard of anyone doing it. The ability to use the 220 gives the .30-06 still more versatility. This isn't the point anyway. Again, I HAVE a .308 autoloader, and I WANT a .30-06 one. It isn't about ballistics or practicality, it's about what I WANT. If people were all about practicality, the most guns most of us would own would be one .357 and a 12 gauge pump shotgun.

And I'm not asking for a NEW .30-06 autolaoder design. I mostly want a .30-06 Kalashnikov, or something similar. That is, a "sporting" semiauto that's strong enough to use full power .30-06, but isnt' fragile and unreliable like your typical "sporting" autoloaders from, say, Remington.

One in 8mm Mauser would tickle me even more, though in this case a chrome lined barrel would be even more important, to deal with all of the corrosive ammunition out there.

 

[jason10mm]

Nightcrawler, look into getting a FN-49 in 30.06. They are, IIRC, 10 round semi-autos. Sure, it is another mil-surp, but it fits the bill for you. They are also in 8mm and I think .308.

 

[RustyHammer]

...... .308 Garand

 

[Nightcrawler]

I have absolutely NO desire for a .308 Garand. None whatsoever. I believe I've made this clear, but perhaps that was in another thread.

 

[seeker_two]

And I'm not asking for a NEW .30-06 autolaoder design. I mostly want a .30-06 Kalashnikov, or something similar. That is, a "sporting" semiauto that's strong enough to use full power .30-06, but isnt' fragile and unreliable like your typical "sporting" autoloaders from, say, Remington.

Isn't EAA going to come out w/ a .30-06 & .270 version of the Saiga soon?

Saiga 100