308 vs 30-06

[Maverick223]

The .308 is technically a more accurate cartridge, but it takes a fine shooter and a special rifle to make the difference apparent. The difference is completely erased by the vagaries of mass-produced rifles. Based upon the rifles you are considering, "inherent cartridge accuracy" is simply not worth discussing.

No it isn't, there still doesn't exist an inherently accurate cartridge. Any cartridge can be loaded accurately, all can be loaded inaccurately. Some have more/less drop, more/less wind drift, more/less recoil, are more/less efficient, but not one is any better than another until you hit the trans-sonic boundary (which is simply the reasonable limit of range for a particular cartridge). The .45-70Govt., is just as accurate as the .308Win., is just as accurate as the 6mmPPC...doesn't mean you (or I) can shoot it as well, but the fact remains.

I agree, the subject of "inherent accuracy" isn't worth discussing...mostly because the phenomena doesn't exist.

 

[Art Eatman]

If you don't reload, and use a pretty-much standard off the shelf rifle, the .308 is pretty much the twin brother of the '06 as to performance. This is particularly true with bullets of 165 grains or less, which takes care of any deer hunting and most elk.

The '06 is definitely superior if the barrel length is 24 to 26 inches, since it's a bit overbore and needs slower powders in longer barrels to reach its full potential. However, since 22" barrels seem more common, nowadays, the '06 advantage just isn't readily available. With the longer barrels and the longer case of the '06, it does much better with the heavier bullets than does the .308--but we're talking deer, mostly, right?

 

[Heck]

Savage 110, Stevens 200, or if you have a little more money look at a tikka t3, phenomal rifle.

As for the .308 and .30-06 debate. I have both and I like both. Pick what you want but dont base it on the .308 is crazy accurate myth. Accuracy is bullet construction, barrel quality, and consistently loaded ammo.

 

[cougar1717]

308 or 30-06? It's the buyer's choice. Both are capable to do what you want to do. I'd stick with the Rem 700 instead of the 770.

 

[UnTainted]

I like the 30´06 in a bolt and have enjoyed shooting it long range at deer in NV. I also like the .308, but prefer it in a semi-auto, which I use when hunting deer in thick trees where longer shots (beyond 400 yards) will not be a norm. I've taken deer with both the '06 and the 308, and with shots in the neck, they all have been sacks of bones.

I also agree with the 308 for 2 legged targets, which is why I like it in semi-auto.

 

[natman]

Do NOT get a 770. Pure steaming junk.

A Marlin XS7 or Stevens 200 is FAR superior for similar money.

There is only ~100 fps difference between 30-06 and 308 factory loads. The advantage for 308 is that it fits in shorter, lighter rifles.

 

[Werewolf]

Remington 700 in .308.

1) Win .308 and 7.62X51 NATO = same round. Lots of milsurp floating around and surprisingly it is getting cheaper by the month. 30-06 mil-surp is still available but no currently issued military firearm that I am aware of uses 30-06 and once the available 30-06 mil-surp is gone it'll be gone. All NATO members use .308. There's gonna be .308 mil-surp around for a very, very long time. Of course if you reload or price doesn't matter this may be irrelevant to you.

2) External ballistics of 30-06 is marginally better than .308 but not enough better to matter IMO. You can shoot 200gr in 30-06 not - to the best of my knowledge - in .308. Will 20 grains (.05 ounces) really make any difference?

 

[USSR]

Don't know where the 20 grains difference in charge weights between .308 and .30-06 is coming from. In my experience with both cartridges with similar loads (same bullet and same velocity) there is 5 - 6 grains difference. In any case, for hunting purposes, pick the rifle, not the cartridge.

Don

 

[308sc]

^^^ I think he was referring to bullet weight.

Honestly in my opinion flip a coin. The cartridges are very similar. either one you will choose you will be happy with.

 

[dagger dog]

Big heavy bullets 180 gr up, the edge goes to the '06,along with the ability to take game in the moose, brown bear class. The 125-165 gr bullets go to the .308, pronghorn whitetail,mulie,elk,black bear, you save weight powder, bullets and get the same results as the '06.

SHTF? Either will do but you find more, .308 ammo than '06, and the badguy shot with either one won't know the difference.

 

[USSR]

I recommended going with the .308 if you are going to reload because it uses about 20 less grains of powder per charge over the 30-06.

Nope.

Don

 

[06]

LOL, will give you three guesses which is my favorite round. Don't tell anyone but I keep a 700 and M1A in my truck-both in that feeble 308 caliber. The first deer I killed was with a Winchester 100 auto loader. Super rifle. Shot an '03 for 15+ yrs and replaced it with a stainless Ruger 77 in '06. Am completely happy with it's handling, accuracy, and aesthetics. You will not go wrong with one if it is anywhere near as accurate as mine. I keep a 742 and 7400 handy around the house. Don't let recoil scare you. I am 6'2" 140#s and shoot the heck out of rifles. Granted after 20 or so rounds my old skinny (opps aerodynamically efficient) shoulder has about all it wants for a day.
308 or '06, take your pick but as my moniker says---'06 ---- for me.

 

[dogngun]

If you do not load ammo, which I assume you do not,

I'd go with a Savage in .30-06. There is ammo loaded for the '06 for every purpose - every weight, style and type of bullet for everything from varmints to large dangerous game.
I always feel like I have a lot of rifles when I have a .30-06, and Savages are probably THE most accurate factory rifle our of the box, and is certainly a real bargain.

The most accurate center fire sporting rifle I ever owned was an old Savage 110 in .30-06, many years pre-accu trigger with a hardwood stock and a Japanese 3x9 scope. I paid around %165 for it because it was in poor shape. I cleaned it up and found I could not miss with it.

mark

 

[MTMilitiaman]

I don't see where the .30-06 gets the reputation for being so much better on heavier game. The 150 or so fps advantage the 06 has over the .308 with 180 gr bullets isn't going to matter at most hunting distance, and nothing on this planet is going to be able to tell the difference when it's hit.

The only time the velocity is going to matter at all is at the more extreme distances when the bullet is nearing its minimum velocity threshold for expansion. Then the 06 might give you another 50 to 100 yards.

For example, if you load a 180 gr Nosler Partition to 2600 fps in a .308, you reach the 1900 or so fps Nosler recommends for reliable bullet expansion around 400 yards. If you load the same bullet to 2750 fps in a .30-06, it'll take you to about 475 yards. So the only time the 06 has any advantage over the .308 is when the elk is inside that 75 yard gray zone where the .308 probably isn't going to expand but the .30-06 just might.

Other than that, you're talking about a difference of about six inches of drop at 500 yards with a 200 yard zero. That is also negligible, esp with the BDC optics and rangefinders becoming so common now days.

I'm sorry. I grew up around 06 and have eaten a lot of meat taken with that cartridge. I have a good deal of respect for it and I love the history and nostalgia associated with the cartridge and many of the rifles chambered for it, namely the M1 Garand and 1903 Springfield. But since I became the proud owner of an M1A and started shooting as much .308 as I can afford (sadly not much now days), I've lost pretty much all interest in owning an 06 for any purpose other than informal plinking. If I inherit my grandpa's Garand, that's all it will be used for. Everything else I feel the .308 is more than an acceptable compromise for--it does the same job with less powder, less recoil, and typically from lighter and handier rifles.

 

[45Fan]

Just about anything the .308 does, the '06 will do just a little bit better. the rifles tend to be a little lighter and a little shorter in .308. Being its your first, pick which ever one puts a bigger smile on your face, and start saving for the other one the next paycheck.

 

[dubbleA]

I am looking for something that is good for long range shooting that has enough punch for large game. One of my main qualifications is that ammo is reasonably priced. It looks like both of these are similarly priced.

I see that you are adding long range capabilities on big game on top of shtf, coyote/deer rifle duties. What do you consider long range? If you are only talking about shots out to 400 yards or so, it's a moot point both the 308 and 30-06 will do ok. After that velocity and energy really start to drop.
While today's factory ammo is probably the best ever produced it usually doesnt mesure up to handloads at extended ranges.

 

[Deaf Smith]

Both .308 and '06 will do the deed! Now the '06 may reach a bit farther on Coyotes and the .308, being a current military round, easier to find in any 'SHTF'.

But in reality, either will do and do the job well.

Deaf

 

[bpl]

I'm pretty skeptical that .308 will be easier to find in a SHTF situation unless you live next to a military arsenal. I know lots of people who hunt with 30-06 and very few who hunt with .308, which is somewhere down below .270, .243, and 30-30 in popularity WRT hunting, and thus, availability in peoples homes, cabins, small stores, etc. Any military units are far more likely to have 5.56 ammo than .308 as well. Just sayin!

 

[Maverick223]

I'm pretty skeptical that .308 will be easier to find in a SHTF situation unless you live next to a military arsenal.

Agreed, I can find .30-06Spfd almost anywhere ammunition is sold (including WW and country general stores), .308Win. is slightly more scarce and seems to have more "dry spells" than does .30-06 (probably because it is essentially a military cartridge). Additionally SP hunting ammunition is more common in .30-06 (not uncommon in .308Win., but FMJ is prevalent from what I see).

 

[Robert Wilson]

The .45-70Govt., is just as accurate as the .308Win., is just as accurate as the 6mmPPC

Can you prove it, Maverick?

 

[Legionnaire]

Art about nailed it. Unless you reload, the two cartridges will have almost identical ballistics if loaded with identical bullet weights. The '06 can handle heavier bullets and loads, though, so it has the edge there. And if you reload, the '06 has even more versatility.

On the other hand, because the .308 is a shorter cartridge, it can be loaded into a shorter action, which can shave a bit of weight, and can provide a more compact package. Could be important if you want a gun to carry and handle easily.

I like a Remington 700 in .30-06, and a Remington Model Seven in .308. The short action carbine length Seven is the cat's meow in .308.

And as others have said, steer clear of the 770.

 

[groundhog34]

George Wallace once said that there was not a dimes worth of difference between the Republicans and the Democrats. The same holds true for 308 vs 30.06. They shoot the same bullet at more or less the same FTS.

 

[Big Bill]

This will be used primarily for coyotes but I want to have something that can easliy take a deer or be handy if the SHTF.

For Coyotes primarily? Neither! Buy a 243 or 25-06 instead.

 

[Arkansas Paul]

Then, I'd drop the idea of the Remington 700, and check into the Weatherby Vanguard.

Beat me to it. Get whatever caliber you want, just don't get it in a 770. They feel like they're made by Fisher Price. The Vangaurd is the best rifle you'll find for under $400 IMO. There are several though that would be better than the 770.
As far as the caliber debate, it's just never gonna be settled. Everybody has their preferences. The bottom line is, a coyote or a deer flat out aint gonna be able to tell the difference.

 

[Art Eatman]

Okay, to play: For a non-rabid-gun-bug sort who hunts some and doesn't reload. Doesn't spend hours and hours nit-picking the gear, etc., etc. (IOW, not like me. )

Buy any decent bolt action in .308. Buy a scope noted for the repeatability of its adjustment.

Sight in for two inches high at 100 yards with whatever brand of 150-grain load groups best. That's the deer package.

Without changing the scope, test one or two types of 110-grain loads (I assume they make those for the .308.). Note the difference in point of impact.

Adjust the scope to move the group center to the desired point of impact. Write down the numbers. Fire one or two shots as a check. That's the coyote package.

Fire one or two shots with the 150s. Adjust the scope back according to the numbers. Fire one or two more shots as a check.

If the adjustments are as good as the advertisements claimed, you now know what to do for whichever load is to be used for either deer or coyotes.

That way, for whichever game is to be played, it just takes a little clickety-clickety before accurately going bangitty-bangitty.