338-06 vs 35 Wh

[ExAgoradzo]

I'm picturing a medium/large game with the dream of a Griz hunt one day.

Any input is welcome on these two calibers. For sake of discussion these are the only two medium bore calibers in existence.

Not planning on taking shots longer than 300 yards.

Thanks,
Greg

 

[LAGS]

I would go for the .35 whelen.
It is a Standard off the shelf round, and easier to find if you dont reload.
I have never Had a .338-06 but have built several 8mm-06's.
All three are comperable, but now I mostly lean towards the Whelen , just for the ammo availabity, and if I sell the rifle, it is more common and more familiar to most people, especially the non- handloaders.
The Whelen at 300 yards with a 225 or 250 bullet will knock the snot out of and Elk or Bear.
And accurate enough for Jack Rabbits sitting at 200 Yards.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Since the velocities generated by both are close I would go with the 338-06 on bullet selection alone. The energy carried down field is also higher with the 338-06 than the 35 Whelen with bullets of the same weight. I'm a huge fan of the 30-06 so I seem to like anything with an 06 at the end like the 25-06 and 6.5mm-06 so why not the 338-06 too?

 

[T.R.]

About 10 years ago, I got excited about buying a middle bore rifle for an elk hunt. After much research and thought, I decided on a custom Browning in 9.3mm but the 35 Whelen was my second choice. The decision was based upon a long conversation with a PH from South Africa. He shared that Norma ammo in 9.3mm was IDEAL for eland and gemsbok animals. At the time 35 Whelen ammo choices were limited.

I shot a very good bull in Wyoming. It took two shots to down the animal same as with other rifles I've hunted elk. These animals are widely known for their ability to keep their footing despite lethal wounding through the chest organs.

Given your picks, I'd choose the Whelen for its bore size, power, and current ammo (bullet) choices.

TR

 

[StrawHat]

Finn Aagard wrote an article comparing these two cartridges for "Rifle" magazine. I do not remember his conclusion but he liked both cartridges. Maybe you can find someone with a copy of the article.

 

[jmr40]

Not sure I read the same Aagard article, but in the one I read he concluded a 200 gr or heavier bullet from a 30-06 out penetrated both.

Phil Shoemaker, a writer and guide from Alaska determined the same.

A study done by the Alaska Fish and Game Dept. conducted a series of tests to determine the best choice for protection from much larger Brown and Polar bear. They didn't test 338-06 or 35 Whelen, but did test 350 Rem mag and 338 Win mag along with many others. They concluded the 375 mag was their preferred choice with a 30-06 loaded with 200-220 gr bullets as their 2nd choice. I do have a link for that.

http://www.fs.fed.us/pnw/pubs/gtr152.pdf

Having owned both, I came to the same conclusion. Part of the issue I had was recoil. Once you get into the 225-250 gr bullets in either 338-06 or 35 Whelen you are getting magnum level recoil. Might as well move up to a magnum round.

I'd never tell anyone not to use either of them. Just don't expect to see any major improvements over more common rounds. There is a reason why both are obscure and never caught on.

If someone just wants to be different either is a good choice though. With the lighter bullets they are not overkill on deer and shoot flat enough for shots longer than most people have the skills to shoot. With heavier bullets they work well on big stuff.

Between the two I like the 338-06 a little better. Factroy ammo is available for both although 35 Whelen is much easier to find and cheaper. But you'll need to handload both to get real performance. I found the factory loaded 35 Whelen ammo I tried to just barely beat 35 rem in speed.

 

[40-82]

I really like the 35 Whelen. I carried it extensively in the Arctic for a number of years shooting everything from ground squirrel to rabbit, ptarmigan, and wolf on the small side to sheep, caribou, and black bear on the larger side. I used a Williams Guide aperture sight on a Remington 700, but only once when I was hurting for food did I shoot as far as 225 yards on a caribou for anything but practice. Now I primarily use an RCBS cast bullet, which weighs in at 261 grains in the 35 Whelen. The cast bullet penetrates better and opens deeper on larger things, and is less destructive on little things. The Hornady bullets I had available then expanded a little quicker than I liked, and for the small stuff I had to make sure I used a head or neck shot.

For 95% of the shooting I did with the 35 Whelen a .243 would have worked about as well. The big 35 does, however, make an impressive stop on a black bear at twenty feet, and on those occasions when I was very close to a grizzly or I heard something grunt in the dark outside of my tent, having something a little bigger in my hands was a comfort.

If you go with cast bullets the 35 Whelen may offer some advantages over the smaller 338-06, but I've never used the smaller cartridge. Realistically, you're talking about the same basic 30-06 case, one with a diameter of .358, the other .338. I doubt that you're going to find dramatic, discernible differences in the field. If I had to choose, I would consider the most likely use. If I expected to keep ugly things off my carcass at close range, I would go with the larger diameter bullet. If I expected to push the range a little on a big game animal under trying conditions, I would go with the 338-06, but either cartridge should do both.

 

[DM~]

Over the years, I've used both a LOT, well I used a .338-06 a LOT and also a 350 Rem. mag., (which uses the same bullets as the Whelen at the same velocities) quite a bit.

I also have hunted brown bears a lot and have used many different calibers/cartridges when I was bear hunting.

30-06 loaded with 200NP's is my absolute minimum, it works well, but I'm NOT a big 30-06 fan (on big bears) UNLESS it's loaded properly and 200 NP's are the best I've used or seen used in a 30-06.

As for the .338-06 VS the Whelen for big bears, I went with the .338-06 and I think I made the right choice. Here again, it's all about the bullet, NOT the caliber or cartridge.

MY TEST have shown, for the biggest big game, .338" bullets out performed .358" bullets when fired from a 30-06 size case, and the bullet I found to work REALLY well on big bears in .338" was the 275 grain Speer's! My second choice is 250 NP's... Those 275's really do a number on big bears!

In my opinion a .358" bullet should weigh 275 grains or heavier for big bears at this case capacity, and .338's should be 250NP's to 275 grain. Going heavier looses too much velocity and going lighter, penetration with proper expansion suffers.

Most folks hunt deer sized game and 30-06, .338-06 and the Whelen, they are all waaaaay more than is needed for deer/blk. bear, so that's why there isn't much difference in them for THAT purpose and you get those that think "their" choice is the best one.

DM

 

[Arizona_Mike]

What about 9.3x62mm Mauser? Been in production for 110 years and a great cartridge.

Mike

 

[ExAgoradzo]

Actually, I am putting serious consideration into the 9.3 Mauser. I like the idea that I can do anything I'm likely ever to want to do with it. I was just stating to think more 'American' along with staying away from 'magnum'. I still haven't discounted the H&H and go real big, but the idea of efficiency in powder and 'bang for the buck' has led me to setting my gaze lower.
To be honest, when I finally get my next rifle it will have more to do with availability so long as I stay 'med bore'. That is my 'firmest' criteria right now. Appreciating going into a store and buying off the shelf ammo (like say a 300 WM or a 375 H&H) May end up appealing. But while I'm still plotting, going renegade with a 'semi-wildcat' (my last rifle 2 years ago was a 6.5x55 SE) is appealing.
I like the 338-06 b/c of the better BC but I like the Whelen b/c it is bigger. I like the 9.3 Mauser b/c of its history (underdog African rancher as opposed to rich mans English rifle). I like the H&H b/c there is nothing it can't do and no bruin could contest the vote. I'm really not interested in the 338 WM and I can't even say why... Some of the others 338 Fed, 358 Win don't a appeal to me at all. So here I am, still thinking and plotting and trying to get as many opinions as I can. Thanks for yours.

Greg

 

[Cocked & Locked]

I vote for the .35 Whelen

I'm a huge fan of the 30-06 so I seem to like anything with an 06 at the end like the 25-06 and 6.5mm-06 so why not the 338-06 too?

I like the .35 Whelen...never owned a .338-06. The .35 Whelen is also based on the .30-06 case so it has an 06 at the end also. .358-06

 

[Arizona_Mike]

To be honest, when I finally get my next rifle it will have more to do with availability so long as I stay 'med bore'. That is my 'firmest' criteria right now.

Well, .338-06 is a wildcat, so it would be out of the running. Big gun stores, esp. in large game hunting areas should have both, but when it comes to smaller gun stores and Walmart, you will only find the Whelen.

Mike

 

[ExAgoradzo]

At my Walmart the people don't know anything besides 270 and .30-06 even exists .

What I meant by 'wildcat' was merely 'rare'. 6.5x55 isn't a wildcat at all, but again, around here there's no such thing unless you buy online or roll your own.

Greg

 

[Float Pilot]

Actually the 338-06 is now a legit non-wildcat round as the 338- A Square.
Not like it will help you find loaded factory ammo.

I like both the 338-06 and the 35 Whelen.

Yes they both start kicking almost as much as a magnum when they are loaded to max loads. ( which you do not have to do) BUT....Both the 35 Whelen and the 338-06 ( 338 A Square ) allow the use of the 30-06 case which gives you more rounds in the magazine and I believe more positive feeding from the magazine.

The 338-06 has a slightly better shoulder for head-spacing and is a touch more likely to be accurate. The 35 Whelen has a shoulder which sometimes causes a bit of concern.

The 35 Whelen has the capability to use heavier bullets ( generally) if the rifling twist is right. My 35 Whelen likes the old 275 grain Barnes original bullets and the newer 280 grain A-frame bullets. I load them to 2400 fps and they do kick a bit...

Yes I know there are some heavy 338 bullets but most are very long and are designed for the 338 Lapua. But there are 275 grain A-Frame bullets just like there are for the 358 caliber...

So while one ( the 338-06) has a better shoulder for hand-loading, the other (35 Whelen) has slightly larger diameter bullets which may be desirable for some folks.


While some folks talk about the better ballistic coefficient of the 338 caliber bullets, I do not think it makes a big difference out to 350 yards. ( Which I consider an ethical max hunting range).

Examples from actual hand-loads:

338-06 with 24 inch bbl. 225 grain Nosler Accubond with 62gr H-4350. = 2795 fps.
Ballistics Information for the 338 cal accubond:
Sectional Density: 0.281
Ballistic Coefficient: 0.550
Optimal Performance: 1800 fps minimum

When zeroed at 200 yards this load strikes 13.5 inches low at 350 yards




35 Whelen with 24 inch bbl. 225 grain Nosler Accubond with 62.5 grains Reloader 15. = 2800 fps.
Ballistics Information for the 358 cal accubond:
Sectional Density: 0.251
Ballistic Coefficient: 0.421
Optimal Performance: 1800 fps minimum

When zeroed at 200 yards this load strikes 14.7 inches low at 350 yards.

So at 350 yards they are within an inch of each other. Your body shaking at that range will be more than one inch during field shooting.

 

[js8588]

Go with the 9.3! Traditional, little more umph, not much more kick

 

[Float Pilot]

While the 9.3x62mm Mauser is still alive here in Alaska, ( which is the opposite in all ways from California) it is still not easy to find components.

The 9.3x62mm's case capacity is only a grain or so more with most top end loads as compared to the 338-06 and the 35 Whelen. But the velocity for the 250 grain loads are about the same between all three. And .366 caliber bullets are not very plentiful, nor do they have many choices when they are.

Although it is a cool historical cartridge....

But then again I am a guy who owns a 416 Taylor, 375 Ruger and 45-70 which should be carried in bear country...... but chooses instead to hunt with a 6.5x55mm or 7x57mm Mauser 3/4 of the time..

 

[ExAgoradzo]

I'd love to have a 7x57! It's not that I don't want more guns, it's the pocketbook isn't deep enough! That Mauser would make a lot more sense here than any of the mid bores we're talking about! LOL!

Greg

 

[DM~]

Go with the 9.3! Traditional, little more umph, not much more kick

AND lower quality bullets with many less choices to choose from! Also, in the biggest big game, you have to shoot even heavier bullets than in the .338-06, just to get similar performance. That means more drop and more recoil...

I have 9.3's too, so I'm not guessing here...

DM

 

[ArchAngelCD]

IMO way too much stock in invested in the numbers a cartridge produces than the results it delivers. Cartridges like the 9.3X62mm are dismissed by American hunters because the bullets are not flashy or new and the velocities are unimpressive yet that cartridges is still making 1 shot kills today on very tough animals.

To a lesser extent the same is true of the 45 Colt. Everyone want to hot-rod the 45 Colt into a .44 Magnum because it's a slow cartridge yet a 255gr bullet traveling at ~900 fps is an extremely effective round. Marketing over the past few decades has taken it's toll on American hunters and not in a good way.

IMHO there is nothing in North America that can't be humanly taken with a 30-06 when loaded with the proper bullet. Considering the 30-06 can be loaded with a 110gr bullet or lighter and all the way up to a 220gr bullet finding the correct bullet weight and construction shouldn't be a problem... There is no other cartridge in creation that can span that bullet weight swing and still be effective. The 30-06 is forever just like the 1911 and the 45 ACP. What was born of war at the turn of 20th century is still going strong today, over 100 years later.

 

[shooter1059]

I vote 338-06. It's just a little bit more efficient. I'm lucky. I just drive into town and go to the Nosler factory store and can get 338-06 or 35 Whelen. Last time I went in, I found boxes of 338-06 ammo on sale for $35.00 a box. That's less than a box of unloaded brass!

 

[35Remfan]

35 Whelen. Easier to find ammo. No real world difference with the two performance wise. Not sure if Buffallo Bore makes the 338-06 but they make the 35 Whelen.

 

[ECVMatt]

I went the the .338-06. I liked the bullet selection and making the ammo is very simple. I told my self that the increased shoulder area, Sectional Density, and bullet selection were more important than factory ammo, but as other have shown, they are basically both the same.

I do like working with a belt-less case and the extra round feels comforting in the wilds.

They are both great rounds, so choose what you please and enjoy it.

Matt

 

[GooseGestapo]

I'm with FloatPilot.

For many years I dreamed of converting my .30/06 to .35Whelen. However, when it came down to it, I rebarreled to .338/06.
I don't regret doing so.
However, within the next "little while", I'm going to have the '06 barrel returned to the action for "sentimental reasons". I shot my first deer with the MkX in 1976.
I've got many more rifles now, and two other '06's. But, I want to give the rifle to my soon to be son-in-law for him to shoot his first deer with. (I have two daughters...).

Having a Marlin 1995 GuideGun in .45/70, a Ruger M77mkII in .375Ruger, (not to mention two Marlin .338Express); The .338/06 will probably never be hunted with again, particularily if a trip to Alaska is realized.

I also have a .35Rem and a BLR in .358, so a .35Whelen will never be in the picture.
Don't get me wrong; I adore the .35's but for distances over 200yds or heavier game where deeper penetration is needed, the .338's are indeed better. However, they pale compared to the .375's in cases larger than the '06.

 

[Arizona_Mike]

I've bought 6.5x55 at Walmart. I found it all the time during the shortage at Cabela'a, Bass Pro, and Sportsman's Warehouse as well.

Mike

 

[Vern Humphrey]

My "heavy" rifle, Bigfoot Wallace, is a custom '03 Springfield in .36 Brown-Whelen. I load the 225 grain Nosler Partition Jacket to just over 2,800 fps, and it takes elk quickly and humanely with a good hit.