.357 ammo recommendation

[revolversrbetter]

Hello, first post...

I carry a 4" GP-100 as a woods gun when I'm hiking in wilderness areas alone for protection from mountain lion and black bear.

As it's a .357, I've loaded it up with Buffalo Bore 180gn, advertised at 1400 ft/sec and 783 ft lbs.

The recoil is stout, but I'm pretty good with it. The problem I'm having, however, is it's giving me major sticky extraction issues. I really need to bang the extractor rod on a hard surface to get the shells out, which precludes any kind of reload in an emergency situation.

The bore is very clean, as the gun has not been used really at all. I'm thinking if I step down in load, I'll have less expansion and easier extraction. I don't reload, so looking around, I see:

Grizzly Cartridge, 180gr HC 1350 ft/sec and 728 ft lbs
Double Tap, 180gr HC 1300 ft/sec and 675 ft lbs
Double Tap, 200 gr HC 1200 ft/sec and 639 ft lbs
Cor Bon Hunter, 200 gr HC approx 1050 ft/sec and 490 ft lbs

Before I pull out the credit card and order some ammo through the mail, has anyone gone through this exercise before? Where did you end up? What gives max power in a 4" GP-100 with easy extraction???

 

[Steve C]

If the cylinder is clean, esp of any accumulated fouling from firing .38 spl's then the hard extraction is an indication of high pressure, kind of expected with extra high velocity from small ammo manufacturers.

Personally I'm not overly impressed with a few extra fps that you get out of the ammo produced by the companies you mention. A box of 158gr JSP or JHP ammo from Winchester, Federal, Remingotn or CCI will do fine, will more likely eject properly and will kill anything the other ammo will. If you think the extra money for some marginal improvement in performance is worth it then you will have to try each brand in your gun to see if you can find one that works the way you want. Each gun is a rule unto itself as to what ammo will work best and another persons experience may or may not be repeatable in your pistol.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Remington, Winchester and Federal all make "hunting ammo" for the .357 Magnum which aren't pushed to such high pressures. They will cost you less than the stuff you listed too.

Remington had a good 165gr and 180gr hunting ammo.
Federal has 2 180gr loads and a 140gr hunting load.
Winchester has a 180gr round that use a Partition Gold Bullet.

All will work very well for woods carry IMO. Welcome to the forum...

 

[jackslayer]

The law of diminishing returns applies to ammo it would seem. The more you pay the less you get for the increased cost

 

[goodtime]

revolvers R better, I agree. Welcome!

The Double Tap 180 grainers sound good to me.

 

[moxie]

Make sure your chambers are clean and very dry. If you leave a coat of oil in them the way you do your barrel, it can lead to sticky extraction. This may help with your problem.

 

[VA27]

I'd go with 158gr GoldDots or Federal 180gr CastCore.

 

[revolversrbetter]

Thank you for the welcome!

Is it diminishing returns? I just don't know. What seems to validate these higher pressure cartridges is Ruger seems to have changed its business model to embrace them. That's the Ruger differentiation now; built like a tank, indestructible, hammer tent pegs with the gun if you need to, etc, etc. There's a big difference between my GP-100 and my Security Six. I don't think I'd put Buffalo Bore in my Security Six.

The Federal 180 gn HC is advertised at 1130 ft/sec and 510 ft lbs. It seems I'd want as much penetration as possible. By the way, I don't really shoot the gun; I just carry it. I don't know, maybe I'm just drinking the kool-aid. But, when you come upon a fresh cougar print in the mud, way bigger than your fist, you sure think about what you've got parked in your holster!

 

[ArchAngelCD]

If you can't kill a Cougar with a 180gr Federal HC .357 Magnum round or two it ain't gettin killed. BTW, no gun will do you good if you don't see the big cat coming and you usually don't see then coming.

 

[Mightee1]

I am willing to bet that when the big cats and bears start comming after you, there wont be enough time to even get the 6 shots off, let alone reload. If you have to shoot, do so (accurately) and then run like the wind, find a rock to slam the ejector rod against, and put fresh ones in. The last thing I would be worried about is scratching the gun if it had just saved your behind.
I say, if you feel more comfortable with the high performance rounds, use them. Just remember that the only rounds that count are the ones that hit the target.

 

[Husker_Fan]

Those .357 cases might be sticking because of fouling in the chamber from shooting .38s. That was a problem for me. It can be tough to clean out. I soaked cleaning patches in Hoppe's and stuffed them in the chambers for a couple hours. Then I chucked a .40 cal brush in a cordless drill and cleaned the chambers. That took care of it.

Now I only shoot .357 cases in my GP-100.

 

[Revolver Ocelot]

when I go in the woods I carry the 200gr double tap offering in my gp100, never had a problem with the casings sticking.

 

[Deltaboy1984]

Get some JB Bore polish and polish them chambers good.

 

[revolversrbetter]

I did shoot off a box of 50 round nose lead .38s. Is that enough to gum things up? Other than that and less than a box of .357 mags, the gun's been unfired.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Lead bullets don't always lead the barrel, especially if the lead is the correct hardness for the velocities it's pushed to.

 

[Husker_Fan]

It isn't lead fouling in the chamber, but carbon from the buring powder directly infront of the case mouth. That build up is small, but enough to make the chamber a bit tight for a fired .357 case.

I have had a similar experience with the Buffalo Bore 180 grain load (I use it for deer hunting) and cleaning out the chambers as I described fixed the issue.

 

[SalchaketJoe]

I think for max penetration you cant go wrong with any of the heavy hard cast rounds. However, a good 158gr JSP will do you pretty well.

If you reload, the Hornady 158gr XTP FP is a pretty good bullet. Penetration and late expansion.

 

[orrwdd]

I did shoot off a box of 50 round nose lead .38s. Is that enough to gum things up? Other than that and less than a box of .357 mags, the gun's been unfired.

Look in the cylinder bores and see if you can see a ring around them just inside the forward end. If you do, that is the powder fouling and you need to get rid of it.

Nothing wrong with shooting 38 Spcl in a 357, I do it all the time with my S&W model 19, you just need to clean it out each time or the longer 357 cases will stick on it. Use a good solvent like Hoppe's #9 and it will come out.


Bill

 

[rd2007]

I have shot Hornady Leverevolution rounds http://www.hornady.com/store/357-Mag-140-gr-FTX-LEVERevolution/ through my SP101 without any issues. Recoil is no different from the Monarchs I usually use and I have read it is a pretty good hunting round. Not sure if that also means it would be good for defense against cats and bears, but I would think so. They drop right out too.

 

[mbr]

I would start with a proven self defense round and go from there. Two-legged predators are a much bigger threat than the four legged kind. Don't know about Mountain Lions, as we don't have them in my neck of the woods, but I doubt there is much difference between a 125 grain and a 158 grain on a black bear.

 

[wheelgunslinger]

I agree with pretty much everything here.
You'll never see a Cougar coming. If you live through the first second of the attack, it's because the cat couldn't sink a tooth in your spine or head.
Garden variety 357 and some 38 loads will pass right through a Cougar. You don't need souped up ammo for that. Most standard 38 ammo will kill one deader than 4 o clock.

I'd try cleaning the cylinder really well and then shoot some more of the heavy stuff to see if it still happens.

I have a box of black talon .357 mag that I carry sometimes, but most often I feel fine with plain old Remington Core-Lokt hunting ammo for black bear, crackheads, Gunther's DikDik, or whatever comes my way.

Hard cast is a great way to go. It'll crush bones and blow meat apart just the way you want it to.

 

[Rexster]

Welcome to the forum!

Your chambers may need honing. I would let a 'smith do it, as you DON'T want them to be over-done, but Brownells.com does offer, or at least did offer, a chamber-honing kit that will do it gently.

Shooting .38 Special in a .357 weapon can, indeed, as already mentioned, leave deposits in the front of the chamber, that can cause sticky extraction if not really thoroughly cleaned before the magnums are fired.

Another thing is to be honest about the size of the bears in your region. If they are glorified German Shepherds, in size, you don't need loads suited for Kodiak Bears. There is a difference between hunting them on purpose, and shooting them in the face to get them off of you. As for cougars, I have been assured, by an acquaintance who has been there and done that with cougars in Texas, that expanding loads suited for human adversaries are also optimal for cougars. I must add the disclaimer that I have shot neither bears nor cougars, but have walked where they roam, and listened to what I judged to be good advice.

 

[revolversrbetter]

so, it's taken me a good six months to get over to the range...

I shot the 4" GP-100 with both the Buffalo Bore 180gn HC and the Double Tap 200 gn HC side-by-side, repeatedly - just to compare and contrast. I don't have a chrono, so this is purely subjective.

I feel more confident with the Double Tap 200 gn. Felt recoil was more like a push, it didn't seem to snap torque to my wrist the way the Buffalo Bore did. Maybe it's just physics, who knows?!? But, in the meantime, I felt more confident with the Double Tap because I didn't feel I would be distracted by expected harsh recoil.

Accuracy was about the same with both, and I could probably get accustomed to the Buffalo Bore if I had a few hundred extra dollars for ammo and nothing to do all day. But, based upon the comparison of one shooting session, I'm going to standardize my woods carry on the Double Tap. Interestingly enough, extraction was slick and simple with the Double Tap, whereas, the Buffalo Bore continued to stick.

 

[Brett Byers AKA Slow]

I've shot Winchester 180 PG, Federal Cast Core 180 (older, faster loading) and Doubletap 180 HC. The mildest load (I took a good size doe @ 63yd through and through.) was the Winchester PG 180, next was the Federal followed by the Doubletap.
There was no sticky extraction with any of them. I believe a hot 158 JHP would work for a big cat but I would feel better with 180 grain for bear in either of the HC lead. Perhaps some black bear hunters might chime in regarding best .357 loading.
Brett

 

[LJA]

Professional guides in bear country carry 12 gauge pumps loaded with slugs and buck-shot. Good luck hitting a charging bear while you are wetting your pants.