357 Magnum loading for Cowboy Action Shooting - component availability issues

[JimGnitecki]

I am finally able to get back into my Cowboy Action Shooting, but am having trouble getting what I need.

The Canadian Federal Government last fall created a backlog for getting approvals to take physical delivery of handguns already bought and paid for, by threatening to make illegal the sale of handguns (They have proposed legislation pending). So, I bought 2 Cimarron Model Ps in 357 Magnum before the government suspended further approval applications, but had to wait until a month ago to actually take delivery. I finally have them in hand, and they are fine handguns.

But now, the issue is the continuing reloading components shortage!

I DO have 900 Hornady 158 grain lubed lead bullets enroute to me.

But, I have only 191 Hornady 357 Mag cases. I can't seem to find any at any Canadian website. Anyone know where I can get some more 357 Mag cases? Naturally, I'd prefer Hornady since I already have 191 of those, but at this point I'd take any decent brand (but not mixed), new or once-fired.

Trail Boss powder is wonderful for CAS loads, as you can safely use any amount of powder under the bullet that you can fit there without compressing the powder, thanks to Trail Boss's VERY light weight. I use only 4.1 grains, and get 770 fps average out of the revolvers, and about 800 fps out of the rifle. BUT, I am down to only a fraction of a pound, and cannot seem to find any more here at Canadian websites. I know there is no current new production of Trail Boss, but I am hoping there is existing stock SOMEWHERE. A friend found me some a few weeks ago, but I have used a notable amount of that up just making a total of about 400 rounds so far.

Small pistol Magnum primers are also an availability problem. I do have a decent existing supply of regular Federal Small Pistol primers from my reloading of 9mm. Can I safely substitute these in place of Magnum primers, when my load is just 4.1 grains of Trail Boss under a 158g lubricated lead SWC Hornady bullet?

Note for ALL of the above, I think it is illegal to ship ammunition components across the border from U.S. to Canada, (I KNOW it is illegal to ship from Canada to The U.S.), so only Canadian sources will work for me.

Any helpful advice would be appreciated. And remember, I am in Canada, not The U.S.

Jim G

 

[Palladan44]

Magnum primers are NOT needed, unless the data calls for it. Typically that's only with Magnum loads of H-110 or WW-296
Use small primers in cowboy action loads with confidence, in fact Small non-magnum pistol primers are preferred.

 

[dannyd]

Cowboy is Big and close, so you can use 38 special or 357 magnum cases just about any lead bullet between 105 and 158 any small pistol primers also there are many different powders that will work.

So you picked the easiest shooting sport to load for.

 

[GarrettJ]

You have a number of other options available.

While your revolvers are chambered in .357 Magnum, any firearm in that chambering can safely chamber and fire .38 Special. The .38 is preferred for CAS, as you can download the shorter case more easily, and an equivalent loading takes less powder. No need for magnum powered loads for that sport. So see if that brass is available anywhere.

Also, the low-pressured nature of these loads means you can load the brass many many times.

You can also use most any fast pistol powder for the mild loads you are making. Red Dot, 231, AA#2, Titegroup are just a few that will work well. They aren’t as bulky as Trail Boss, so it’s possible to get a double charge if you’re not paying attention. But that opens up all sorts of other (available) powders to use.

Lots of possible load combinations for .38 Spl in any manual.

Hope this helps keep you shooting.

 

[dannyd]

If you get lucky and find some 125 grain cast bullets they work great.

Shot over 50 matches before I stopped. It was fun for awhile.

 

[Charlie98]

I would probably give up the search for TrailBoss. Even though it's in high demand, ADI isn't producing it. Garrett is right... there are a bunch of pistol powders that would work for your application.

Also... ditto on the Magnum primers... they are NOT needed.

As far as brass... I wouldn't get too excited about any specific headstamp, get what you can get! There is very little difference between brass given your purpose for it... and that includes using .38SPC brass as a substitute if it gets down to that. FWIW, fast powders in small charges work better in smaller cases... like the .38SPC case, vs .357MAG brass.

Just a thought... ask around at the matches and see where everyone else is getting components, and what, specifically.

 

[EricBu]

I am finally able to get back into my Cowboy Action Shooting, but am having trouble getting what I need.

The Canadian Federal Government last fall created a backlog for getting approvals to take physical delivery of handguns already bought and paid for, by threatening to make illegal the sale of handguns (They have proposed legislation pending). So, I bought 2 Cimarron Model Ps in 357 Magnum before the government suspended further approval applications, but had to wait until a month ago to actually take delivery. I finally have them in hand, and they are fine handguns.

But now, the issue is the continuing reloading components shortage!

I DO have 900 Hornady 158 grain lubed lead bullets enroute to me.

But, I have only 191 Hornady 357 Mag cases. I can't seem to find any at any Canadian website. Anyone know where I can get some more 357 Mag cases? Naturally, I'd prefer Hornady since I already have 191 of those, but at this point I'd take any decent brand (but not mixed), new or once-fired.

Trail Boss powder is wonderful for CAS loads, as you can safely use any amount of powder under the bullet that you can fit there without compressing the powder, thanks to Trail Boss's VERY light weight. I use only 4.1 grains, and get 770 fps average out of the revolvers, and about 800 fps out of the rifle. BUT, I am down to only a fraction of a pound, and cannot seem to find any more here at Canadian websites. I know there is no current new production of Trail Boss, but I am hoping there is existing stock SOMEWHERE. A friend found me some a few weeks ago, but I have used a notable amount of that up just making a total of about 400 rounds so far.

Small pistol Magnum primers are also an availability problem. I do have a decent existing supply of regular Federal Small Pistol primers from my reloading of 9mm. Can I safely substitute these in place of Magnum primers, when my load is just 4.1 grains of Trail Boss under a 158g lubricated lead SWC Hornady bullet?

Note for ALL of the above, I think it is illegal to ship ammunition components across the border from U.S. to Canada, (I KNOW it is illegal to ship from Canada to The U.S.), so only Canadian sources will work for me.

Any helpful advice would be appreciated. And remember, I am in Canada, not The U.S.

Jim G

Broaden your powder choices...Titegroup, AA2, Cleanshot all make excellent cowboy action 357 loads, plus there is absolutely no need for a magnum primer. What are the rules for shipping brass into Canada?

 

[JimGnitecki]

Broaden your powder choices...Titegroup, AA2, Cleanshot all make excellent cowboy action 357 loads, plus there is absolutely no need for a magnum primer. What are the rules for shipping brass into Canada?

I don't know the rules for importing brass for certain, but I do know that all the Canadian resellers warn U.S. buyers that they are not allowed to export, so I would logically assume that imports are the same. With brass cases, I wonder if a creative mind could legally claim the cases can be used for other purposes. But i suspect that a Customs official would simply respond by saying that a handgun can also be used as a hammer or paperweight, but it's still a handgun and is subject to handgun regulations when being imported.

The anti-import/export rules are probably in place simply so the government can make sure that only licensed dealers can move ammunition or components across the border, as it tries to curtail illegal importing (smuggling) of firearms and ammunition. This enables them to know exactly how much ammunition is actually being imported and sold. Even for us legal Canadian buyers, the reseller MUST get our "PAL" (Possession and Acquisition Licence) number before he can sell and ship ammunition or components to us. I recall even reading that the reseller is supposed to confirm that the PAL number submitted matches the name, address, and email address that is registered at the Royal Canadian Mounted police (our naitonal police force) in a database that the reseller can apparently access for verification.

Interestingly, there do not appear to be restrictions on Canadians with a PAL selling components or firearms to other Canadians with a PAL. It seems to be the border crossing that is the big deal. Presumably, this is because both seller and buyer have already been vetted by the PAL application process.

Jim G

 

[Charlie98]

Even for us legal Canadian buyers, the reseller MUST get our "PAL" (Possession and Acquisition Licence) number before he can sell and ship ammunition or components to us.

I understand shipping ammunition... I don't understand the issue with components, unless that has been specifically spelled out in your regulations. A call to the RCMP might clear that up.

It seems to be the border crossing that is the big deal.

Anything that crosses an international border and can be used as a weapon, or as part of a weapon system, is pretty heavily regulated. Even things like rifle scopes are regulated... you can't just ship one out of the country. Further, the receiving country wants to tax the importation, too, as part of the customs process... revenue is revenue.

 

[JimGnitecki]

I have read all the responses here about using a different powder. I realize that Cowboy Action Shooting does not require great accuracy or consistency because the targets are large and the ranges are short, but I personally can't tolerate low precision and low consistency, even when they are acceptable from accuracy, consistency, and safety perspectives. I like to see just how accurate and consistent I can make my ammunition.

What powder should I go with if my priorities are:
- Actual reliable availability
- Filling as much of the case volume below the bullet as possible
- Small versus large unfavourable consequences if the powder charge varies a bit (I use a progressive Dillon XL750 press, and don't go slow, and some powders don't meter very precisely)
- Small versus large unfavourable consequences if the COAL and BTO vary a bit (since we are using cast lead bullets in CAS, and the bullets leave deposits on the seating stem as well)
- Overall reloading safety
- Not too much combustion debris from the powder, because CASA matches use at least 5 rounds per stage per firearm, and there can be many stages in a match, so you don't want the firearm to jam up before you get a chance to clean it, and because revolvers have to be cleaned from the muzzle, you don't want to have to run a LOT of patches through the barrel each time. (I love vihtavuori powders for their cleanliness, but reliable availability is really poor here in Canada)

Cost of the powder is not a big deal, as even at today's prices, the powder in a CAS (low power) cartridge is the lowest cost component in the cartridge. (Primers are no longer cheaper)

Jim G

 

[Charlie98]

What powder should I go with if my priorities are:
- Actual reliable availability
- Filling as much of the case volume below the bullet as possible
- Small versus large unfavourable consequences if the powder charge varies a bit (I use a progressive Dillon XL750 press, and don't go slow, and some powders don't meter very precisely)
- Small versus large unfavourable consequences if the COAL and BTO vary a bit (since we are using cast lead bullets in CAS, and the bullets leave deposits on the seating stem as well)
- Overall reloading safety

My first suggestion would be Unique... it has good case fill, but it's a flake powder and a lot of people complain about it's metering. Personally, the variations I see with Unique don't particularly translate into poor load performance, which is one of the unique things about Unique.

Minor variations in COL can affect fast powders at the limits of data... think TiteGroup and similar powders. I don't think that is going to be a problem with your usage.

As far as actual availability... you would have to tell us that. You mention VV powders are not normally available to you in Canada, but that doesn't really tell us what IS generally available.

 

[lordpaxman]

What powder should I go with if my priorities are:

There’s only one powder that fits the bill. It’s put out by the Unicorn Powder Company.
While Trail Boss might not be available, there are a lot of powders that will work. You’re loading on a 750, assuming a Dillon meter, there will be slight variations in the drops but not enough to create a safety issue.
I agree you shouldn’t tolerate a reduced precision, accuracy and safety, but the SCSA crowd doesn’t either. For revolver they load as light a load as possible, a lot use Clays along with the other faster powders mentioned. My advice would be to secure more than one of the faster powders so you’re not single sourced. If you’re in a .357, or .38 (preferred), there’s a lot of room in the case when loading these so you have to be diligent but that’s part of the process. If you can find lighter bullets that would also help with loading a very fast powder at minimum levels.

 

[Crunchy Frog]

You are overthinking the powder choices. I’ve been shooting cowboy since 2010 and loading .38 Special with lead bullets for longer than that.

If you want a case full of powder, shoot black powder or a black powder substitute. I’ve shot 158 grain bullets in .357 cases full of Goex black powder, and in .38 Special cases full of American Pioneer Powder. It’s still a manageable load.

The .38 Special case was developed at the end of the black powder era so you will have excess case capacity with any smokeless powder. Even more with .357 Magnum cases.

Some powders, like Titegroup, are supposedly less sensitive to the position of the powder in the case. You can test that if you are so inclined.

There must be dozens of suitable powders. I agree that flake powders are a little more filling. I use a lot of Red Dot myself. There’s still a lot of room in the case. I run an RCBS Lockout Die in my progressive press as insurance. It works. I don’t worry.

Criteria to use in selecting a powder-availability of course. Temperature sensitivity (I stopped using Clays in cold weather for this reason). Recoil impulse and report-some powders are “snappy”.

I use .38 Special cases with mixed headstamps because they are plentiful and cheap. If I lose a few I don’t sweat it.

 

[JimGnitecki]

Some progress yesterday:

A shooting supplier one province over had 3x 300/box = 900 of 158g .357 Mag Hornady lead bullets.

They also had the 300 357 cases I wanted (Starline was the available brand), so I bought those.

Both are on their way to me.

The assurance that regular small pistol primers will work just fine with moderate CAS loads was reassuring, as I have a decent supply of SP primers from my supply for my 9mm reloading.

But I have only exactly 9 ounces of Trail Boss left, and that’s good for 960 rounds.

So, I am good for 900 rounds, with the 900 bullets being the first limit, and the Trail Boss powder being the next almost simultaneous limit at 960 rounds.

The Hornady 158 g lead bullets seem to be available for the time being going forward. But the Trail Boss is totally unavailable, and not even in production at this time. So, unless the Trail Boss situation changes pretty soon, I WILL need to develop a new load based on a different powder. I’ll take into account all the above comments you all have made onwhich powders might be suitable. Here in Canada right now, most (maybe even all) powders have unreliable availability, but a couple of pounds goes a long way for CAS reloading at 4 or so grains per case, so even finding 2 lb will keep me going for over 3000 rounds more.

I understand the recommendation to consider black powder or a modern replaica of black powder, but I don't like the smoke nor the much more intense cleaning habits needed for those.

I sent an email to a good friend with over half a century of experience in Canadian shooting and laws, and asked him whether Canadian law allows or prohibits importing of ammo components by individuals, from either U.S. resellers or individuals, and if there are practical barriers to importing even if it it is legal. If he does not know, I'll then have to probably make multiple calls to at least 3 separate agencies: the office of the provincial Chief Firearms Officer, the RCMP, and Canada Customs. I know this will be "not easy" to get reliably acurate answers, as there is great controversy right now here in Canada about firearms, and about customs delays related to both supply line issues and inadequate customs staffing.

The Canadian Federal government is trying to stiffen Firearms laws that will make the already intensely regulated shooting environment even harder to navigate, and some of the provinces, including the one I live in, are pretty actively opposing the Federal initiative, to the point that they have announced they will not tell local peace officers, nor support even locally assigned Federal officers, to enforce new proposed Federal laws that would require confiscation of many rifles that are used for everyday hunting. What a mess. I lived in The U.S. for many years and miss the constitutional protection of the Second Amendment.

Jim G

 

[EricBu]

I have read all the responses here about using a different powder. I realize that Cowboy Action Shooting does not require great accuracy or consistency because the targets are large and the ranges are short, but I personally can't tolerate low precision and low consistency, even when they are acceptable from accuracy, consistency, and safety perspectives. I like to see just how accurate and consistent I can make my ammunition.

What powder should I go with if my priorities are:
- Actual reliable availability
- Filling as much of the case volume below the bullet as possible
- Small versus large unfavourable consequences if the powder charge varies a bit (I use a progressive Dillon XL750 press, and don't go slow, and some powders don't meter very precisely)
- Small versus large unfavourable consequences if the COAL and BTO vary a bit (since we are using cast lead bullets in CAS, and the bullets leave deposits on the seating stem as well)
- Overall reloading safety
- Not too much combustion debris from the powder, because CASA matches use at least 5 rounds per stage per firearm, and there can be many stages in a match, so you don't want the firearm to jam up before you get a chance to clean it, and because revolvers have to be cleaned from the muzzle, you don't want to have to run a LOT of patches through the barrel each time. (I love vihtavuori powders for their cleanliness, but reliable availability is really poor here in Canada)

Cost of the powder is not a big deal, as even at today's prices, the powder in a CAS (low power) cartridge is the lowest cost component in the cartridge. (Primers are no longer cheaper)

Jim G

AA2/Cleanshot meter like water. Titegroup meters pretty good too, within .1. I load 45 Colt, 357, 38 spl, 44 spl, 44 mag, 9mm, and 40 on a mark 7 Revo and a dillon 750 regularly with those powders. I do reccomend if you aren't already, run a powder cop or dillon powder alarm (I won't run a progressive without one myself). All around, my favorite is TG, but Cleanshot is a close 2nd. Unique is horrible on a dillon progressive (powder bar type measure) meters like 1 inch gravel through a 3/4 inch hose, slightly better with a drum type. With TG, a little goes a long way....4lbs will load a LOT of 357. Plus, it's not case position sensitive, perfect for loading light in big cases.

 

[JimGnitecki]

AA2/Cleanshot meter like water. Titegroup meters pretty good too, within .1. I load 45 Colt, 357, 38 spl, 44 spl, 44 mag, 9mm, and 40 on a mark 7 Revo and a dillon 750 regularly with those powders. I do reccomend if you aren't already, run a powder cop or dillon powder alarm (I won't run a progressive without one myself). All around, my favorite is TG, but Cleanshot is a close 2nd. Unique is horrible on a dillon progressive (powder bar type measure) meters like 1 inch gravel through a 3/4 inch hose, slightly better with a drum type. With TG, a little goes a long way....4lbs will load a LOT of 357. Plus, it's not case position sensitive, perfect for loading light in big cases.

Thank-you for that Titegroup endorsement. You make a good case for it. I DO run a Dillon Powder Checker - I view it as an important safety feature.

Jim G

 

[EricBu]

Oh, and looking up something unrelated, I found a reference to a Canadian SASS member who imports Starline brass. I don't know a thing about him, but you may want to check out Rusty Wood Trading Co, see if they have a website or something.

 

[jmorris]

What powder should I go with if my priorities are:
- Actual reliable availability

Lets start with that, what can you get? All of the suggestions in the world won’t do you any good if you can’t get any.

Lots of powders can get you a 158 grain bullet safely out the end of a barrel at ~800fps, like all of these.



If you want the most case fill, go with the ones that are the heaviest. That 5.3 gn HS-6 load will get you 1320 rounds loaded per pound of powder.

FWIW with that 3.3 of Red Dot load, the same 1lb container would load 2121 rounds, if powders are hard to get, it would be difficult for me to overlook the advantage of loading another 800 rounds per pound of powder, especially for a close range game like SASS.

Personally, I’d probably go with 3.4gn of VV N320 because it’s the cleanest powder I have used but it’s more expensive than the very similar Titegroup that I often use as a substitute, when I am feeling frugal and don’t mind a little extra cleaning.

 

[Charlie98]

AA2/Cleanshot meter like water. Titegroup meters pretty good too, within .1.

Thank-you for that Titegroup endorsement. You make a good case for it. I DO run a Dillon Powder Checker - I view it as an important safety feature.

You are overthinking the powder choices.

I wondered about some of the Accurate or Ramshot powders for the OP's application, but I don't know how available they are in Canada. I guess, for that matter, how available something like Alliant is... shoot, we can hardly get it here in the US. Having said that... OP, I understand your desire to keep things on the straight and narrow, but given your circumstances, you are going to have to broaden your approach. The past 2-3 years here in the US has taught a lot of us the same thing... trust me on that one.

If you look at a powder burn rate chart... a relative one, not linear, you can see there are a whole slew of powders that will work for you. Because of the loads CAS shooters load... light charges, under cast bullets, for short range targets, you don't need the absolute precision say a target shooter would require. You are in luck that a little powder goes a long way, so it's not like you have a heavy investment in a powder like rifle shooters might.

As far as TiteGroup... it's not my favorite. It has a high nitro content, so it runs very hot. The good news is, it does go a long way, and doesn't seem to be position sensitive; it seems to meter pretty well for me, too. Jmorris mentioned RedDot... I like RedDot, it actually would work very well for what you need, but it is a flake powder, and as I understand it, the Dillon powder measure doesn't necessarily care for flake powders (like Unique, also, which is a shame.) Shoot... an 8# jug of Promo, which is the discount version of RedDot, would last you the rest of your life very likely!

Many of the powders in the red circle will work for your application, but not necessarily all.... I'm not familiar with some of them, but I do know some are not appropriate for your application. Like jmorris' post above, looking at available data can help you make up a 'grocery list' for powders that would work in your application...

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

I have read all the responses here about using a different powder. I realize that Cowboy Action Shooting does not require great accuracy or consistency because the targets are large and the ranges are short, but I personally can't tolerate low precision and low consistency, even when they are acceptable from accuracy, consistency, and safety perspectives. I like to see just how accurate and consistent I can make my ammunition.

What powder should I go with if my priorities are:
- Actual reliable availability
- Filling as much of the case volume below the bullet as possible
- Small versus large unfavourable consequences if the powder charge varies a bit (I use a progressive Dillon XL750 press, and don't go slow, and some powders don't meter very precisely)
- Small versus large unfavourable consequences if the COAL and BTO vary a bit (since we are using cast lead bullets in CAS, and the bullets leave deposits on the seating stem as well)
- Overall reloading safety
- Not too much combustion debris from the powder, because CASA matches use at least 5 rounds per stage per firearm, and there can be many stages in a match, so you don't want the firearm to jam up before you get a chance to clean it, and because revolvers have to be cleaned from the muzzle, you don't want to have to run a LOT of patches through the barrel each time. (I love vihtavuori powders for their cleanliness, but reliable availability is really poor here in Canada)

Cost of the powder is not a big deal, as even at today's prices, the powder in a CAS (low power) cartridge is the lowest cost component in the cartridge. (Primers are no longer cheaper)

Jim G

Accurate No.5.

 

[JimGnitecki]

Oh, and looking up something unrelated, I found a reference to a Canadian SASS member who imports Starline brass. I don't know a thing about him, but you may want to check out Rusty Wood Trading Co, see if they have a website or something.

I did find and check out his website yesterday during my Google search. He did not have either the brass or the powder at this time.

Jim G

 

[JimGnitecki]

Lets start with that, what can you get? All of the suggestions in the world won’t do you any good if you can’t get any.

Lots of powders can get you a 158 grain bullet safely out the end of a barrel at ~800fps, like all of these.

View attachment 1135840

If you want the most case fill, go with the ones that are the heaviest. That 5.3 gn HS-6 load will get you 1320 rounds loaded per pound of powder.

FWIW with that 3.3 of Red Dot load, the same 1lb container would load 2121 rounds, if powders are hard to get, it would be difficult for me to overlook the advantage of loading another 800 rounds per pound of powder, especially for a close range game like SASS.

Personally, I’d probably go with 3.4gn of VV N320 because it’s the cleanest powder I have used but it’s more expensive than the very similar Titegroup that I often use as a substitute, when I am feeling frugal and don’t mind a little extra cleaning.

I was hoping you'd post on this thread. I agree that VV N320 is a great choice, and VERY clean, and I have used it extensively in the past, when I lived in The U.S. Here in Canada, it's very hard to find it regularly though. I did buy a good supply of a different VV powder a year or 2 ago that I use in my 9mm load, but finding that powder then was a pleasant surprise. I bought as much as I could afford!

Your Titegroup endorsement backs up what EricBu said, so reinforces my plan to check out how available it is here in Canada.

Jim G

 

[JimGnitecki]

I wondered about some of the Accurate or Ramshot powders for the OP's application, but I don't know how available they are in Canada. I guess, for that matter, how available something like Alliant is... shoot, we can hardly get it here in the US. Having said that... OP, I understand your desire to keep things on the straight and narrow, but given your circumstances, you are going to have to broaden your approach. The past 2-3 years here in the US has taught a lot of us the same thing... trust me on that one.

If you look at a powder burn rate chart... a relative one, not linear, you can see there are a whole slew of powders that will work for you. Because of the loads CAS shooters load... light charges, under cast bullets, for short range targets, you don't need the absolute precision say a target shooter would require. You are in luck that a little powder goes a long way, so it's not like you have a heavy investment in a powder like rifle shooters might.

As far as TiteGroup... it's not my favorite. It has a high nitro content, so it runs very hot. The good news is, it does go a long way, and doesn't seem to be position sensitive; it seems to meter pretty well for me, too. Jmorris mentioned RedDot... I like RedDot, it actually would work very well for what you need, but it is a flake powder, and as I understand it, the Dillon powder measure doesn't necessarily care for flake powders (like Unique, also, which is a shame.) Shoot... an 8# jug of Promo, which is the discount version of RedDot, would last you the rest of your life very likely!

Many of the powders in the red circle will work for your application, but not necessarily all.... I'm not familiar with some of them, but I do know some are not appropriate for your application. Like jmorris' post above, looking at available data can help you make up a 'grocery list' for powders that would work in your application...

View attachment 1135848

Red Dot being a flake powder is not necessarily a problem in the Dillon 750. I expected the Trail Boss I have been using to be a real issue because Trail Boss is both flake AND really lightweight! It handles almost like "lint"! So I tested its drop consistency in the Dillon extensively before I committed to using it, and was surprised to see that the erxtreme boundaries on a 4.1g target drop were 4.0 to 4.2! Since my RCBS Chargemaster Lite only displays to 0.1g, and the accuracy of the scale itself is probably no better than that at best, I realized that worrying about the powder not metering as well as a heavier and differently shaped powder might be pretty academic!

Jim G

 

[Rule3]

For such reduced Cowboy loads there are many many powders that will work that do not need a magnum primer. Just use 38 special brass or if you use the 357 brass increase the 38 special load by 10%

As asked, what powders are available to you??

 

[JimGnitecki]

Oh, oh. I just checked the Hodgdon reloading guide. It is true that Hodgdon indeed recommends Titegroup for CAS. BUT here is what Hodgdon's own online loading guides shows for a 158 g cast lead bullet in a 357 Magnum cartridge:



Note:

1. The pressure runs a bit high compared to Trail Boss, running from 19,300 CUP at minimum recommended load to 24,900 CUP at maximum load.

2. The velocity even at minimum load of 4.5g is 1028, and hits 1108 at maximum load of 5.0g. This is pretty much all bad news:
- You cannot use less than 4.5g of powder at even the minimum load
- The entire safe loading range is only 0.5g, which is only 10% of maximum safe load. That's too small a safe range, that outright makes impossible the often recommended 70% start point for load development and testing
- That 0.5g range changes the velocity by 80 fps, which is a lot for that small a change in powder grains
- The entire safe range of 1028 to 1108 is way too high for CAS, from both recoil and barrel lead deposition perspectives. Normal CAS loads show more like 700 to 800 fps out of 10" test barrels

Based on all the above, I cannot see why Hodgdon recommends this powder for CAS.

Jim G