.357 Magnum? So much for 1 shot stops........

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http://www.newsregister.com/news/story.cfm?story_no=168655

Man shoots pit bull to halt attack

Published: July 22, 2003

By KATIE WILLSON
Of the News-Register

WILLAMINA - Two-year-olds Digger and Buddy grew up on opposite sides of the fence in more ways than one. While mixed-breed Digger got lots of attention from owner Dan Bonson, pit bull Buddy was often left to fend for himself.

But the pups seemed to play well together when they got the chance. So Bonson was surprised Thursday night when the neighboring pit bull slipped under the wood-slat fence and attacked his dog.

As a last resort, the Willamina man ended up firing two shots into Buddy from a .357 magnum to get him to release a death grip on Digger's throat.

Both dogs survived, thanks only to a sturdy collar in Digger's case. But the pit bull was later put down by Yamhill County Dog Control, which responded when its Polk County counterpart could not or would not, even though the residence is on the Polk side of town.

The events began to unfold about 8:45.

Bonson was upstairs in his residence at 150 S.W. Ivy Street, finishing a set of shelves. His wife, Miranda, was watering the garden. Their grandchildren, 3-year-old Destiny and 8-year-old Tina, were playing in the yard nearby.

Suddenly, Bonson heard growls, snarls and a scream. He ran down just in time see Buddy grab Digger by the throat.

Digger shook hard enough to lift Buddy off the ground, but the pit bull hung on.

Bonson kicked Buddy and shattered a rake handle over him. Still, the dog wouldn't let go.

Desperate, Bonson yelled for his 13-year-old son, John, to go in and get his .357.

He fired one warning shot into the dirt, then another, but the shots had no effect.

He fired a shot into Buddy, and still the dog held his grip. It took a second shot to get the pit bull to let go.

When the dog staggered to the fence and slumped over, Bonson ran inside to put his gun away and call police. By the time he got through, alarmed neighbors had already called in reports of the series of gunshots.

When he went back outside, Buddy was not immediately in sight. He feared he had left a wounded pit bull running loose in the neighborhood, but the dog had simply collapsed behind the house.

Unable to get anyone to respond from Polk County, Bonson called Yamhill County. While officer Kay Full said the county doesn't normally venture outside its jurisdiction, she knew responding deputies weren't equipped to deal with an injured animal, so agreed to come.

When Full arrived, Miranda Bonson was sitting in the yard, holding Buddy's head in her lap.

At the scene, Full noted a gunshot had shattered the dog's shoulder. Back at the office, a fuller examination showed another gunshot had pierced a lung.

Full put the dog to sleep in lieu of commissioning emergency veterinary surgery, saying it could have cost Yamhill County taxpayers anywhere from $600 to $1,500 when the dog wasn't even from their jurisdiction.

Digger underwent treatment at Sheridan's West Valley Veterinary Hospital for wounds to the shoulder and neck. "The vet told me the collar is what saved him," Bonson said.

Bonson said Buddy's owners were in the process of moving. He said he didn't know their names, let alone their destination.

When the neighbors stopped by Saturday to pick up some more of their belongings, the Bonsons told them what had happened. "They weren't too happy about it," Bonson reported, "but they said they'd have done the same thing."

Neither family plans to press charges, according to Bonson, but the case remains under investigation by the Yamhill County Sheriff's Office, which provides police service throughout Willamina - even the Polk County side - under contract with the city.

"It's unlawful to discharge a firearm inside city limits," said Lt. Michael Runyon. "The issue here is that his dog was being attacked and there was a concern for his grandchildren."

Abandoning an animal is also punishable as a violation of animal cruelty statutes, Runyon said. He said deputies can't determine the applicability of that until they track down the pit bull's owners, who so far remain unidentified.
 
gee,,,

weren't we just discussing "warning shots" a little bit just a while ago around here?

i remember the consensus on warning shots going something like this

"bang! bang!"

"stop or i'll shoot!!"

pit bulls are tough,

my guess is the only chance of stopping one dead with just about anything is right between the eyes

or maybe a shotgun

anybody else got info on this??

m
 
Remember animals are a bit different from humans. Not so much in toughness but in mental attitude.

Humans tend to give up when injured in any way. We have been ingrained by movies, tv, books etc. that being shot is a very very bad thing and part of the one shot stop reasoning has got to be a mental one.

No don't get me wrong I have never been shot nor do I aspire to but any handgun round is usually a pretty small piece of lead flying fast but not super super rifle fast and tends to be a pretty poor fight stopper on it's own.

Dogs who get hit in a not immediately fatal area are not thinking "Oh my God, I need a doctor or vet as the case may be." They are not thinking about all the media that they have seen that has shown them that a bullet is instantly fatal.

Mental toughness is a very very powerful thing. Even if it comes from simply not knowing any better.

Chris
 
One more thing. I have always heard that the best way to stop a Pit is to use a chemical fire extinguisher. A blast or two in the face and they will usually let go, then you just bash them with it. Of course it is probably easier to carry the .357 maggie then a big ole' red fire extiguisher.

Oh an not all pits are bad dogs.

Chris
 
Good story and two good lessons; There are no magic bullets, and a gun can be a good thing to have at hand.

I also agree with 280. My first shot would have been at the dog.
 
cslinger,

I'm not trying to get into hand-to-paw combat with a pit bull.

And seriously, who fires a warning shot at a dog?
 
I fired a warning shot at a Lab that was chasing my Cat (Mr. Wink) around and around the shed. I just wanted it to go away (So did Mr. Wink). But the Lab caught him and started to do the rag doll routine and from about 5 yards away I put a .38 behind its shoulder. The Lab dropped my cat and snapped at me and I fired twice more, but I don't know if I hit anything. The Lab ran off never to be heard from again and I ended up taking Mr. Wink to the Vet for stitchs. Nobody ever said anything about the shots either.
I was soooo paranoid for days afterward. Everytime I saw an LEO, I though "OK. He's going to arrest me". But nothing ever came of it.
 
Speaking of one shot stops ...

Read about this surveilance video of a bank robbery. Armed guard was shot by robber at a distance of about three feet. Guard falls down. Robber(s) exit. Guard gets up. He wasn't even hit. :eek:


Speaking of warning shots and dogs ...
Neighbor's 150 lb dog started hanging around while they were gone. Everything was okay until he decides to pick up the portable phone from a chair on the deck, and then plays keep away with it.

Now I'm mad. Chased the dog around but he won't drop the phone. So I fired a 38 snakeshot load into the ground, and he drops the phone and backs away.

I retrieve the yucky dirty phone and proceed to chase dog off. No more shots fired, just yelling some things I can't quote here . ;)

In this case, the warning shot saved my phone (except for a few teethmarks).

BTW, this is out on 40 acres so nobody even pays attention to shots fired.
 
Warning shot, who said anything about a warning shot. If a pit was attacking me I am empting 6 warning shots into it's center mass. I was just saying that animals can perceive bullets wounds differently then humans. It is easier to overcome a human with a bullet because many humans are mentally prepared to go down once shot since they see it as a catestrophic wound no matter if it is or isnt.

Chris
 
I've broken up several serious to-the-death dog fights between big intact male dogs. Typically the way to do it is grab the attacking dog by the tail and pull--HARD. It's not safe to put your hand in the fray, obviously. Now if the attacking dog is a pit bull and it's holding your dog fast, the better option would probably be to chop the pit bull's head off with a good axe. IMHO gunshots at close range in a suburban area, esp "warning" shots are too risky. The only time I'd do it is if the dog had a grip on my own leg and I could just shoot it with a .38 Special or something smaller. A .357 would make be a bit nervous, with my own leg right there and all.
 
Re: .357 Magnum

There's a rather famous case of a LEO (I believe his last name was Coates) who ended up putting 4 rounds of a .357 magnum into the gut of an extremely overwheight male. The Goblin returned fire and killed Coates with a .32 that penetrated his armpit beneath his vest. The Goblin survived. :mad: :fire:

So...no magic bullets.

As for dogs...Gentleman I know in the area had a dog problem...neighbor's Doberman kept getting out and threatening his kids. Warned the neighbors, who didn't do anything...Well, the doberman jumped the fence into the man's yard and started to charge the man. He emptied six rounds of .357 magnum into the animal, and it kept staggering towards him...he reloaded and did the same. :what:

Dogs and people=not same.
 
The death ray must not have activated correctly in the nose of the .357 magnum projectile. .38 specials don't come with this feature. :rolleyes:
 
I also know of a case where a .357 sig bullet, fired at point blank with a hp, simply got lost in the gut of a fat guy. It hit, then went off at an angle and travelled through the fat layers until exiting at his side. A few stitches, some antibiotics and he was fine.

As far as dogs, who knows. The only sure way to kill any animal instantly is to shut down its central nervous system. Thus my suggestion of a good axe.
 
theres a dog i encounter sometimes on my walk to work, i've pepper sprayed him once when he tried to get close enough to bite. i've called animal control and they told the owner to keep the dog on a leash or in their yard so it cant get out. i dont carry pepper spray much anymore, and am not willing to risk getting bitten while i use a knife on the dog, so my only option is to give it a .45acp lead transfusion.
 
seems dogs and animals have a finer distinction of the flight or flight reflex when injured.

however check your state laws. (yall are probably sick of me preachin Nevada Statutes but hey i gotta practice the research for this somehow)
any way heres our state law concerning dangerous animals



NRS 575.020 Allowing vicious animal to escape or run at large; vicious animal may be killed; liability of person having care or custody of animal which bothers, injures or kills livestock of another.
1. Every person having the care or custody of any animal known to possess any vicious or dangerous tendencies, who allows it to escape or run at large in any place or manner liable to endanger the safety of any person, is guilty of a misdemeanor.

2. Any person may lawfully and without liability for damages kill such an animal when reasonably necessary to protect his own safety or the public safety, or if the animal chases, worries, injures or kills his livestock on the land of any person other than that of the owner of the animal.


3. Every person having the care or custody of an animal which chases, worries, injures or kills the livestock of another on land other than his own is liable to the owner of the livestock for damage to it.
4. As used in this section, “livestock†means all animals of the bovine, caprine, equine, ovine and porcine species, and all domesticated fowl and rabbits.
[1911 C&P § 326; RL § 6591; NCL § 10274]—(NRS A 1979, 1395)

 
one stop shots(?)

well, not to get technical, but what the hey...

It is all about shot placement, and being off by a millimeter can make a big difference. Basically, you need to have catastrophic lowering of blood pressure (the aorta is best for this, so if you have great aim, nerves of steel, and have a degree in anatomy, no problem, right?) or a cental nervous system (CNS), i.e., brain/spine shot. Either should drop the subject as rapidly as possible. Good luck, esp. with a dog.

Of course, aside from good aim and more than enough luck, you need penetration, and large wound channel (volume) and good follow up shots (most likely). Of course, that involves lots of detail I do not have time for here. But suffice it to say that the larger the calibre/expansion, the better. Bullet speed or kinetic energy gets to be a touchy issue with some disagreement, but too high a velocity does seem to produce too much reversible stretching and not enough crushing.

placement, placement, placement, penetration (sufficient, but not excess velocity), diameter.

I thing I better quit.

ba
 
FWIW,,,

you must remember that they bob the tails on dobies, rotties and pit bulls

so they cant be easily held on to.

thats why they bob the ears also on the dobies

ive spent time with dobies and pitbulls, when raised as just dogs they are just that, regular old dogs

its the people that cause them to become vicious by any combination of neglect, cruelty, and/or training.

funny thing, do you know the dog most likely to bite???

the dalmation,

and disney plays off this 101 dalmation thing causing thousands of uninformed people to go out and purchase these puppies, only to give them up when they find out how aggressive and active they are and sometimes after a bite or two

its ok, i guess, as long as disney and the puppy mills make a buck,,,

fire houses kept dalmations for crowd control, their job was to keep the crowd back

anyhooooo,,,

i'm sorry when any animal has to be put down due to the ignorance of its owner

:(
 
My wife's poodle chase a burglar out of our attached garage late one nite a couple of years ago. He earned my respect that nite and I've called him our pit poodle ever since, but, I digress...

I have a friend who, a couple of years ago heard a commotion out back by the barn where he ties up his austrailian shephard. He went to investigate and finds the neighbors pit bull had escaped (again) and this time he had Nipper down on the ground by the throat and hell bent on killing him. Well, this friend of mine is a big fella (6' 3", 275 lbs), so he tries with all his might to pull him off by his collar (I wouldn't have done that, he mighta turned on him) to no avail; he couldn't even budge him. So he backs off a bit, pulls his .45 and shoots this dog between the shoulder blades at point blank range. The pit bull just shudders, walks away 3-4 paces and turns to look at my friend. He then kills the dog with another shot.

He followed the 3 "S" rule:

Shoot

Shovel

Shut up
 
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